Are Busses Worth it?

I've reached a point where I'm dropping the use of busses (other than master buss). I've just come across too many scenarios where effects on individual busses clash with those on the buss they are routed to. A good example is with a session drummer buss. I usually apply light compression to kicks and snares, at a minimum, to help balance output from them. I also usually have some degree of reverb on snare rolls and cymbals, to varying degrees. The problem is that even if none of these tracks are peaking, the drum buss will. If I apply another compressor to that buss, the reverbs on the individual tracks are affected, as well as some being compressed twice, leaving the entire mix sounding thin and airy. While I like the idea of being able to level a whole group in a final mix with one slider, I'm not sure that adds enough benefit to actually do it.
 
Has anybody run into this scenario before? If so, how did you resolve it? Thanks for any input.

I like using buses. I find them very handy. I've never used compression as a way to control volume. I think we do things very differently because I have never encountered the kinds of problems you mention. I don't put reverb on buses I have instruments routed to but rather I create dedicated reverb buses. This also allows me to process the reverb differently than the audio being sent to it.

i use as many busses as i need to get the job done.

sometimes, it's one.

sometimes it's twelve.

no rules.

no templates, no 'standard method'

every song gets treated in a unique fashion.

this is what works for me.

The useful thing about buses is that they let you experiment with the song by making minimal changes. What would it sound like if all the guitars were a bit more prominent, or the vocals came down a bit, etc... They are as much for balance as for applying processing.

Serenarules


Thanks guys. I think I went about using compression with the wrong mindset: trying to make it so that all level slider are as close to 0db as possible, rather than marshall random volume variances with a given track. I have a new project I'm working on that I'll try out some new techniques on. Thanks again.

Well, it's not necessarily the wrong mindset - as AT pointed out, they were originally designed for automatic gain control. In some cases they may be just what you need. You can also use them in conjunction with level automation. But keeping your tracks at a conservative level will indeed leave you more room to work. 

Let me ask then, if you don't mind, what are some general mixing guidelines? Examples would be something like:

1) start with all track and non-master buss levels at -12db and the master at 0db.
2) try to keep snare and kick levels approximately the same
3) hi-hats tend to be 1-3 db lower than the kick/snare average
4) pads tend to be 6-12 db lower than the bass

Of course, those are just arbitrary examples I pulled out of a hat, and are probably nowhere near accurate, but I'm just curious what people are using for a baseline setup pre-mastering?

I always try to keep my projects as uncomplicated as possible....


I recommend the KISS rule: Keep It Simple Serena.


Only add fx to a track if it is ABSOLUTELY required. Most of the time when you think it IS, it is actually not. 

In 90% of my mixes, the tracks are void of FX. Quite a few only have mild compression in the master in the form of  some Ozone based eq/compression stuff. 

Your tracks can be running clean (no red) and even after you pop in a compressor.... but you're sending that track with 4 others to a buss, and the level gets up as a result in the buss. Throw eq & Compression on the buss and you just bump the levels again. The solution is to pull the tracks down a bit, and pull the buss down. You can easily end up with a screwy mix...pull levels down turn compression up.... repeat that a few times and you're way off the original target. 



 A wise person working a mixer board once told me some really good advice. He said: Set everything flat (EQ) to start with and try NOT to turn the knobs to get it to sound good. So applying that to digital recording..... record the tracks at a respectable level and try not to use FX to "fix the sound". 

When you are mixing, and you begin to notice the "dog chasing it's tail" syndrome starting.... go back to square one. Remove or BYPASS the FX bins in all the tracks and busses and start again.  

The tendency of many folks is to add FX trying to fix a mix, when in fact, the opposite is often true. 

If the buss is going into the red where the level is too high for any buss FX you are using (or if you're just worried about it for some other reason), you can just turn down the Input Gain (aka Trim or Gain) control on the buss.

In terms of signal flow, Input Gain is at the very front of the buss (before the FX bin). And generally speaking, reducing the input to the buss has an identical result to reducing everything feeding the buss.