Helpful ReplyAre Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price?

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MachineClaw
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2015/06/11 17:23:42 (permalink)

Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price?

like the title says are the Spitfire Albion (1, 2, 3, 4) worth the price?
 
I think in USD each library is about $500+. 
 
There is a 4 day 50% off on a bundle of all 4 Albion products comes out to $1000+ but you get all 4 libraries.  $250+ each doesn't seem so bad.
 
I just don't know if they have gotten long in the tooth for symphonic libraries.  I have read and looked at product reviews but so many of the reviews just seem a bit to biased and just rave and paint the products great.  others seem like the samples have baked in reverb and the reviews absolutely hate the products.
 
I don't know that I NEED more symphonic libraries but this seems like one of those once in a lifetime sales.  am I wrong?  worth it?  not so much?
 
thoughts?  quit spending money, make music and donate money to charity? (okay that last one isn't going to happen but maybe.....).
post edited by MachineClaw - 2015/06/11 17:30:45
#1
ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/11 18:04:12 (permalink)
As far as quality & sound yes, excellent libs.
Yes, the verb is baked.
If you don't really need them or won't use them much it's probably not a wise investment.
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Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/11 23:18:42 (permalink)
There IS NO VERB!!!  I own a lot of Spitfire and they are just exquisite.  By far the most popular libraries among all the heavies over at  VI Control.  Spitfire CONSTANTLY updates them, improving the GUI so it is consistent among their entire line of products... oh, and the ostinatum generator is badass!  
 
As to this reverb nonsense, Spitfire does all their recording at Air Studios - Lyndhurst Hall, London, which is HUGE and the ambience is captured via far off mics... you dial in what you want from various mics, trees, etc... no synthetics, the REAL FRIGGIN DEAL.  Just watch a few vids... they have a zillion.  Paul always goes on about the mics.... 
 
I'm very jealous... I paid full price for each Albion.   They include absolutely monster drums, amazingly tweaked sounds and rhythmic stuff all on top of some of the most beautiful instruments ever captured.
Albion 1 is the momma... mother ship.   2 is the delicate, smaller packages and 3 is just a balls out mega f"ck of a beyond awesome low end orchestration package.
 
Albion 4 is totally weird stuff that may or may not make sense... sorta like "cage"
 
but this is a monster deal...wow! What I could have used all those savings for!   
 
btw, I own ewql platinum orch, all Kurks stuff (cept the latest new thingy), all NI's crap (and compared to Albion, it is total crap) and Project Sam's OE 1&2 which I use on occasion.  Mostly I use Albions... they are soooooo exquisit!
post edited by Vastman - 2015/06/12 00:18:04

Dana
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#3
ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/11 23:42:21 (permalink)
Vastman
There IS NO VERB!!! 
As to this reverb nonsense, Spitfire does all their recording at Air Studios - Lyndhurst Hall, London, which is HUGE



Not nonsense at all.
The samples aren't recorded dry.
The reflections of the room is the space (reverb)
#4
Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/11 23:55:15 (permalink)
Carl... the close up mics are Dry!  As dry as any other library out there...however they simultaneously capture three other sets of mics...overhead and tree and whatever... They are capturing the natural ambience of the hall, if you want to dial that in; If you want to call that Verb, so be it... but you can use the close in mics, which are for all intents and purposes, DRY then and dial in your own "verb" if that floats your boat...  This is a totally different than the approach of EWQL, which uses impulses from their stellar Spaces verb ( I own it and use it all the time).
 
Doesn't really matter...as to Machine's queri...  either you want um or not... either you like their gui or don't...the ostinatum engine is hella rad but maybe you don't care about all the prebaked runs and riffs and things you can play freehand and modify/create which would be impossible to play (at least I can't and Daniel James noted it is a huge timesaver), either you like their approach and the sound of it or you don't...and either you like all the extra gooodies they include (very unique and awesome in their own right) or you say "I already have enough earth shattering drums and twisted synths and other things they include and bypass the deal.
 
I don't know why you're asking here...You should be over at VI Control... those folks are pros...and very helpful... and  you can spend days listening to the vids, endless compositions from all the Spitfire composers out there (soundcloud has ooooooodles) 
 
 
post edited by Vastman - 2015/06/12 00:26:41

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
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Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
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#5
Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 00:20:07 (permalink)
Claw, As to long in the tooth, the libraries are constantly being updated, gui enhancements, new features, new content... I have never known a company who constantly improves their products as Spitfire... and it's all free.

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
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#6
MachineClaw
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 01:22:28 (permalink)
Very cool info.  thanks.
 
I'll have to listen to demos and really think about it.
 
 
#7
ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 10:13:08 (permalink)
You're confusing dry samples with close mics. There are no dry samples in Albion.
The close mics still have a small amount of the hall (reverb) in them. You can open them up further using the tree, amb. or outrigger mics.
You cannot get rid of the reverb using only the close mics.
Try a dryer library from VSL , you'll understand & hear the difference.

Also the REDUX version release of Albion introduced baked ensembles.
Some prefer this type, others dryer sampled libraries to set up their own stage positioning & reverb.

It's also one reason why it's difficult to balance them using other sample libraries. You can use software like Parralax-Audio VSS & get decent results but you still have to deal with ER, micing & phase issues between them.

Either way they sound great, one of the best orchestral libraries to date.
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MachineClaw
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 10:48:01 (permalink)
"Either way they sound great, one of the best orchestral libraries to date."
 
are you sure you mean that? - you seem pretty critical of the sounds/Verbs.
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ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 10:58:02 (permalink)
Not critical at all, I said "quality & sound excellent libs."
 
You just have to be aware that you can't completely isolate the reverb & the baked ensembles can't be placed anywhere on the stage. You can run into problems using other libraries together.
It's something to consider when investing a good sum of money.
 
Myself, I use it all the time.
It's the first string, wind & brass ensemble choice I go for when starting a new project. 
#10
MachineClaw
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 14:59:02 (permalink)
I started with IK Sampletank and miro philharmonic library. 
then I got EastWest symphony orchestra platinum (HATE this library and PLAY engine SOOO much!). 
then I got ProjectSAM orchestra essentials I and Sample Logic's Morphestra (later upgraded to Morphestra Generations).
 
I just bought into Vienna Instruments (I have bundle 1, 2, 3 & 4 but not the articulations).  So far I like the interface and sound the best BUT the samples seem rather dry.  with Vienna I have to know more about composing and how to orchestrate.  the samples are really really good but I really really don't know what I am doing yet.
 
So I guess I have been trying to find really professional libraries that are built for the Pro and for the incompetent  hahahaha.  I wish I knew now back when I started I could have saved a ton of money so far.
 
The Albion libraries might be that good between library I am searching for.  I am listening to a lot of tutorials and vids on YouTube before I jump in and spend a ton more money.
#11
ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 15:10:32 (permalink)
Well I would say you have bases pretty much covered. 
There's no magic pill however even with Albion although it might fit your needs better. You could try selling your unwanted libraries.
Albion is nice for lush ensemble pads, that's how I mainly use them. VSL & others for solo instruments when needed.
For strings 8Dio's Agitato Sordino Strings lib might worth be checking out too-
http://8dio.com/#instrume...or-kontakt-vst-au-aax/
post edited by carl - 2015/06/12 15:16:42
#12
MachineClaw
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/12 16:18:12 (permalink)
there is no magic pill.
 
Don't I know that's true!
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Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 03:38:43 (permalink)
Hey, Claw... I just tried to figure out what you have... doesn't relate to this (VSL's list which is big).  If you're talking about their Special Edition Core Bundles, they sound pretty nice.  And if you like VSL and already know your way around their interface you might wanna just consider picking up "Spaces" from EW (think it's half price).  It's full of exquisit impulses from all the best orchestral halls and many other arenas.  I have a zillion verbs but Spaces is really nice for orchestral stuff and vocals.  It is quite wonderful and no play engine. I too started out with ewql's CCC stuff and Spaces is about all I use these days
 
I don't think Agitato is a viable option.  Adagio is 8Dio's main string library (pricy...1g);  the Agitato series, covers quicker legato transitions and dynamic bowings outside the scope of the original Adagio series; it should be thought of as a supplement to Adagio, which is their main library. The Sordino is just one of many of the Agitatos...I don't think they have a bundle yet but it's another grand if you start tallying up all the bits... They also have Adagietto, ensembles of Adagio which I picked up to see if I wanted to learn another interface and decided no way. All of these are just strings...and no ostinatum engine.
 
If you're watching and listening you'll realize the Albions' give you way more than the orchestra...There's a lot of independent folks doing soundtracks/trailers/games/tv that have posted albion work on soundcloud... Ya got till monday! The Darwin Percussion drums are just stunning and the Stephenson's Steam Band is an endless extravaganza of goodies and the Brunel loops are a trip.  Christian's wacked out synths lend an original awesomeness and Albion 3 is just gobs of intense awesomeness.
 
Thanks to you I'm downloading UIST right now...I'd forgone it earlier but while there is lots I'll never use, revisiting it today at half price helped me decide to spring for it. A pretty amazing collection of evolving playing styles... Kinda sucks, money wise as I just added Infinity and Gravity but it is quite unique.  And with the british pound down right now that's only $269.  Was gonna pick up Phalynx trumpets next but I got till July 1 to get the intro discount so....   BTW, their Phalanx Brass is sweet... Over at VIC we all keep complaining that Paul and Christian are keeping us all paupers but how to resist!  Evo-Grid is on my list as it is truly unique but I'm waiting for Evo-3 then the bundle deal... Spitfire is addicting but their other offerings are very reasonable, especially as they're now doing the bundle deals.  
 
carl, on the verb thing we are talking semantics... maybe some libraries are "miced" in dryer rooms... but they're ALL miced... and so we are only talking relativities here.  Personally I find their close in mics as dry as I'd ever want to use and the others make it easy to avoid external verbs... I love the Lynhurst sound but the close in mics without the others would be a deal breaker to me.  
 
Maybe I'm just all wet!  
post edited by Vastman - 2015/06/14 04:20:12

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
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#14
ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 09:45:11 (permalink)
Vastman
carl, on the verb thing we are talking semantics... maybe some libraries are "miced" in dryer rooms... but they're ALL miced... and so we are only talking relativities here.  Personally I find their close in mics as dry as I'd ever want to use and the others make it easy to avoid external verbs... I love the Lynhurst sound but the close in mics without the others would be a deal breaker to me.  
 
Maybe I'm just all wet!  




Again you're confused. We not talking semantics, we're discussing facts.

I said there aren't any dry samples & there's reverb in all the positions including the close mics, which there is.
You said "There Is No Verb".. &  Albion's close mics are as dry as all other sample libraries, which they aren't.

Again my point is that can make for alot of issues when using other sample libraries together when there is BAKED reverb in them. Slapping on another convo verb will likely lead to to problems such as muddiness, out of phase- just be aware of it.
 
*P.S. if you're trying match Halls between Albion & other sample libraries I'd first try using an algo verb instead of a convo like Spaces.
2-C Audio's B2 e.g. is excellent (but very hard on resources/ cpu)
post edited by carl - 2015/06/14 13:29:37
#15
Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 13:35:15 (permalink)
carl, excuse me but what is your precise definition of "dry samples"?  How are they made?  How are they made differently? I maintain it is all about the room... some rooms are "dryer" or I would say "deader" than others... you keep talking about the facts and I don't see what I'm missing.
 
For example, in a discussion of Berlin Strings, it is noted, "The library was recorded at Teldex Scoring Stage, in situ, using a multi-mic configuration. The wetter ambience of the library means that the sound has more in common with Spitfire BML than either Hollywood Strings or VSL (both of which were recorded in drier studios), though Teldex is a symphonic hall with very different acoustic properties than AIR Lyndhurst (which has longer tails). As such, BST is a ready to use solution: it does not require any panning or reverb setup in order to be used in most contexts since all the instruments are in place and the sound of a concert hall is already in the recordings.
 
Again, as per the above, we are talking semantics... Spitfire uses a larger hall, therefore, like Berlin, it's a bit wetter relative to vsl or ew.  What is baked is the room, no matter what library we're talking about.  As to what libraries work good together, that is a very subjective issue and composers use  many libraries together, including berlin and spitfire... the ear is a subjective thing... You keep talking the facts and yet the only fact which is relevant is the room.    

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
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#16
ltb
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 14:07:32 (permalink)
You're missing the point.
I said there are no dry samples in Albion= FACT.

YOU said the close mics were dry as any other libray. Non Fact
The tail/ decay was captured in the close mics recordings of the samples. Other libraries such as vsl record close then use another process to add the tail.

You said "There is no reverb" Non Fact
Lyndhurst Hall creates / IS the reverb.

I said the reverb is BAKED into Albion= FACT
 
Facts, not semantics.
-----------------------------------/
post edited by carl - 2015/06/14 14:13:44
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Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 14:56:43 (permalink)
ok, carl... thank you so very much.   

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
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#18
kitekrazy1
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 15:07:36 (permalink)
Vastman
Claw, As to long in the tooth, the libraries are constantly being updated, gui enhancements, new features, new content... I have never known a company who constantly improves their products as Spitfire... and it's all free.




 This and "outdated" are only terms believable by the end user.  People in the street don't say, "is that the same VSL library?" 
 
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Vastman
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/14 15:26:00 (permalink)
Don't know what you're getting at, Kite... Things are constantly evolving... especially the GUI. As they've refined it in BML and Mural, they've also incorporated these changes into the Albion GUI... I respect them for this.  In contrast, In Sample Logic's newest product, Cinematic Guitars Infinity, they did NOT update either CG1 or 2's GUI (both of which are different) to their new, more powerful GUI in CG3.  
 
They've also added new elements.  I can't speak for many other companies but, for example, Spitfire has added complementary elements from both their BML and Sable libraries to the Albions, both patches and new samples across the entire orchestra so as to provide some additional flavors.  Similarly, they've added oooodles of pretty amazing ostinatums...which are extremely useful and valuable.  In my experience, most companies just move on... so, from a user's perspective this is a valid question.  And it has nothing to do with "belief".
 
May not matter or be apparent to "people in the street"  but that's not the one buying it.  I contrast their refining of Albion to EWQL abandonment of their platinum orchestra...Even Project Sam didn't receive much of an update cept for the GUI last year.
 
 
post edited by Vastman - 2015/06/14 15:36:24

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
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#20
MachineClaw
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2015/06/15 19:20:49 (permalink)
I had to pass on this deal right now.  cost is too much for me and for the price I could get a lot of other libraries or effects that are on my wish list.
 
thanks for the input and discussion about the samples in Albion.  they seem like really great libraries that I could see adding in the future but now I have too much to learn and beat the crap out of the GAS monster.
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SouthtownBluz
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2017/03/07 14:32:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vastman 2017/03/14 07:18:49
Vastman
ok, carl... thank you so very much.   


Hey Vastman...first of all, thanks for all of the informative information you shared. I'm new to the Orchestral Libraries and I've been trying out a few to see which one I'd like to buy. Albion I seems to be a very comprehensive library, and the samples are amazing. I've been doing some research, and a lot of the points you've made I've come to realize just from looking around. I still have a LOT to learn, but I DO feel like Albion I helps a novice to jump in and start making music a lot faster. Of course all of the tutorials on YouTube help as well!
 
Re: your discussion with Carl... perhaps he was too caught up in the "love" of debate, but once you clarified your meaning by explaining that all "dry" sounds are simply closely-recorded mics, that was a very common-sense explanation, and I understood completely what you meant, and frankly, I thought the argument was over. You even went as far as to clarify that you meant that Albion is non-synthetic reverb and naturally recorded verb.
 
In contrast, Carl chose to argue against this point, maintaining that he was stating facts by indicating that Albion is NOT dry and IS verb. This is a case where two people were arguing two different points. You're saying it's not synthetic verb, he's saying that it's not dry. But how is it not dry when it's recorded with the same technology used to capture dry recordings on other libraries? What is his point here? Because one must draw the same conclusion you came to even when considering his "argument".  Does this mean that one can say that NO LIBRARY is TRULY DRY, based on Carl's inference of what "pure dry" must be?
 
After a while, I realized he just wanted to argue semantics, and didn't really have a point. 
 
The truth is, his argument fell apart after your clarification of how dry is recorded and his last response all but confirms he completely missed the point you were making.
 
That said, thanks for clarifying your point for others who might be reading. You made a lot of sense.
 
Carl also made a very good point about using different libraries. I noticed right away that it takes quite a bit of tweaking to make the recordings sound similar, due to the verb and mic positioning of the different libraries. It's something that I'll have to be very careful about, so I thank Carl as well for raising that concern.
 
I just created this account to let you both know that. Thanks again and cheers!
#22
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Are Spitfire Albion libraires worth the price? 2017/03/07 14:45:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/03/07 14:56:09
MachineClaw
like the title says are the Spitfire Albion (1, 2, 3, 4) worth the price?



Only you can answer this question (for your particular scenario).
FWIW, The Spitfire Albion libraries are popular with our professional composer clients.
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#23
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