Piotr
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Are WE killing Sonar?
I am thinking if mass migration exodus from Sonar to other DAWs is kind of kiss of death which could make unwanted by us scenario final...
As one of Bakers wrote nothing written in stone yet. But if a miracle happened and somebody took over Sonar to keep it alive would be still possible to reverse that exodus?
Anyway what kind of business is doing Gibson? Looking without any interest how huge user database is decreasing rapidly. Kind of unusual these days when user database related to specific topic is worth by itself...
Regards, Piotr Sonar Platinum Lifetime
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craigb
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 19:40:31
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☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2017/12/12 20:39:36
Uh, no. SONAR was killed by Gibson and, evidently, poor upper management at Cakewalk.
In any event, everyone has been at a post-funeral wake for several days now but doesn't seem to realize it.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bapu
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 19:42:36
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 19:48:39
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2017/12/12 23:45:13
Mass Exodus or not Gibson Killed SONAR I didn't  Why should I feel guilty for having to find other options for my Personal Music Creation ... I already paid up for a Lifetime membership and now all I have is The Splat Life Support Edition ... Do you feel guilty if your car breaks down and then you decide to pick up something else to drive instead ? Sure my copy of SPlat is working and may work fine for years to come ... the thing is , I don't keep all my eggs in one basket ...it is too easy for the fox to raid the hen house  Kenny
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BlixYZ
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 19:51:28
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there's no question that many are jumping ship prematurely. However, if people start using another DAW and then Sonar comes back, they will still own Sonar. The chances are, they'll still use it. Some may love their new DAW and never return, but I don't think that number will be significant.
The grass only LOOKS greener on the other side.
James W BlixYZ Recording Studio BlixYZ Records Audient ASP800 thru Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Mackie Control Universal + C4 Yamaha HS50's plus Matching Sub, Tannoy 501a Blue Baby Bottle, AT 4050, Neumann TLM 103, etc. UA 610, Focusrite/ART/Neve 2CH. Windows 10
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bapu
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 19:53:32
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Oh no no child, it wasn't me.
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gswitz
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:05:44
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It was me, upstairs, with Linux.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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paulo
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:08:51
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Count me out of the "We" - I haven't gone anywhere.
I do think that the alternative forums have pretty much finished this one off though, not that it wasn't pretty much dying on it's arse anyway, but totally understand why they were set up by their respective peeps.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:15:49
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You don't wait until The Titanic sinks before you try to find a life boat to get on to , do you ? The whole time I have been using SONAR I have also been using other brand DAW's ..in PC and Mac .. In conjunction with using SONAR , for years I have used , Logic , Samplitude , Mixbus, Acid Pro , Traction , and for a lot less time Reaper . Those are only a few DAWs I choose to mention here . This list does not even include the new DAW's I recently bought Studio One 3 anyone ? The Grass is greener has absolutely nothing to do with it in my case at all .... It has been an observation of mine where I notice that some Cakewalk users can be somewhat arrogant , they even think that Cakewalk invented half the stuff they like to use ... I got news for you , when you own and use at least if not more than half of the top 20 DAW's that some people agree as to being very good ... You will notice that all The DAW 's Companies out there have stolen features from each other and have implemented them as new features in their brand DAW Kenny
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Funkfingers
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:29:05
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☄ Helpfulby kzmaier 2017/12/14 15:42:37
Sonar isnt dead. Just sleeping. Waiting for the prince to come.
My name is Hans but I'm still Funkfingers after all these years.
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anydmusic
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:39:06
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Cakewalk and Sonar as we like remember them were dead long before we started moving to alternatives.
It's easy to blame Gibson but a lot of the detail offered here points to a company that has had problems for a long time and ultimately failed because it failed to become a recognised brand in its chosen field. Respected yes, recognised no.
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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outland144k
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:39:59
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Piotr
I am thinking if mass migration exodus from Sonar to other DAWs is kind of kiss of death which could make unwanted by us scenario final...
Piotr: First, as Craig said, Gibson killed Sonar (at least in the Aristotelian sense of "effective cause"); the paying, legal users have had the least to do with this of anyone, regardless of where they are in "the Great DAW Reallignment of 2017" (ominous fanfare cued here).  (I do think that we users could have a bit less melodrama about it all, BTW. And I'm not referring to present company or even anyone in particular in mentioning this. I'm just not sure it's all that productive at this point.)
Second, your comment about "mass migration" might have some bearing on the situation, except for one huge point: it's doubtful that there are any accurate numbers anywhere concerning who is "leaving" or "staying" in the Sonar fold. I can cite my own example. After trying several DAWS, I bought Studio One 3.5 because it kind of felt "natural" to the way I work. I don't intend to stop using Sonar, though if no credible company picks it up, I'm pretty sure that in about a year's time or so, I'll probably be using Studio One almost entirely. (Just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not feeling like Studio One is a lesser DAW than Sonar, though I certainly am still in discovery mode with it; it's just different.) But am I in the fold or out? I'd have to say in, but others may even feel betrayed by my actions (though I certainly hope not).
I hope this allays your fears somewhat. Offered in the spirit of FWIW.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless. 
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Beagle
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:40:33
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☄ Helpfulby craigb 2017/12/12 20:55:56
It's all crash! It's all crash! In the loudspeaker!
good boy.
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anydmusic
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:40:33
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Funkfingers
Sonar isnt dead. Just sleeping. Waiting for the prince to come.
But there's a good chance that prince is currently a frog waiting for the princess to kiss him...
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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jerrydf
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:50:36
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BlixYZ
However, if people start using another DAW and then Sonar comes back, they will still own Sonar.
A new owner may save the Sonar name as a DAW, but doesn't have to honour the existing lifetime update or implied ownership. I'd imagine a new owner would build in some revenue from the existing user base via either a new subscription, a new update pricing regime or other financial model; and that's _if_ development can be picked up almost seamlessly within the next four or five months. If it's any longer too much momentum will be lost (where have I heard that word before in a Sonar context? Oh, I remember). It will take a year or so before sufficient trust could be placed in any new regime, especially from the serious professional user base. If the remaining user base is more casual hobbyist, then development will likely be scaled down to where Sonar becomes a shadow of its former glory. Maybe. Jerry
i5 6500 3.2GHz; 16GB; Win10 on SSD1; recording and samples on SSD2; + 3 other HDDs; 2 monitors in landscape; back with CbB and also Cubase 10 Pro, Komplete 11, Steinberg UR22. Instruments: Various fretboards and amplifiers. Listen to ... Cosmic Two-Step (2017)
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outland144k
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:54:50
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You know what ? This ain't my first Rodeo ...Cakewalk killed Project 5 close to 10 years ago ... I spent years trying to replace it , wishing it would come back and then eventually I gave up on it and found something else ... During that 10 years I wished that Cakewalk would fix SONAR's staff View , I even held out hope until recently .. Now what do you think 'm saying Here ? Do I look like I want to sit here and Pine Away for years like I did when Cakewalk was up and running No Ken Do No More Kenny
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anydmusic
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 20:59:34
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2017/12/12 21:03:09
kennywtelejazz
You know what ? Cakewalk killed Project 5 close to 10 years ago ...
I spent years trying to replace it , wishing it would come back and then eventually I gave up on it and found something else ...
During that 10 years I wished that Cakewalk would fix SONAR's staff View , I even held out hope until recently ..
Now what do you think 'm saying Here ?
Do I look like I want to sit here and Pine Away for years like I did when Cakewalk was up and running
No Ken Do No More
Kenny
Living in Hope... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZIQKn2Adfk
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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Beagle
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 21:00:11
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2017/12/12 21:03:30
kennywtelejazz
You know what ?
This ain't my first Rodeo ...Cakewalk killed Project 5 close to 10 years ago ...
I spent years trying to replace it , wishing it would come back and then eventually I gave up on it and found something else ...
During that 10 years I wished that Cakewalk would fix SONAR's staff View , I even held out hope until recently ..
Now what do you think 'm saying Here ?
Do I look like I want to sit here and Pine Away for years like I did when Cakewalk was up and running
No Ken Do No More
Kenny
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 21:14:25
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anydmusic
Living in Hope...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZIQKn2Adfk
That Was Nice  Beagle
Oh boy Beagle Hhhhmm, You know what ? If I round up a bunch of them and spruce them up with some Holiday sprinkles and stuff , I may be able to stand in close proximity to a Santa ringing a bell and sell a few of them ...might get some DAW cross grade money back If that don't work out I can always stuff one of them down my drawers and turn my amp up to 11 Kenny
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Beagle
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 21:26:32
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kennywtelejazz
anydmusic
Living in Hope...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZIQKn2Adfk
That Was Nice
Beagle
Oh boy Beagle
Hhhhmm, You know what ?
If I round up a bunch of them and spruce them up with some Holiday sprinkles and stuff , I may be able to stand in close proximity to a Santa ringing a bell and sell a few of them ...might get some DAW cross grade money back
If that don't work out I can always stuff one of them down my drawers and turn my amp up to 11
Kenny
TMI!!!!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 21:47:32
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ampfixer
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 21:51:03
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2017/12/12 23:48:05
The longer we go without any meaningful communication from Cakewalk, the smaller its chances of ever returning.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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batsbrew
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 22:02:42
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☄ Helpfulby Ionian 2017/12/13 08:17:44
Piotr
I am thinking if mass migration exodus from Sonar to other DAWs is kind of kiss of death which could make unwanted by us scenario final...
dude, i do not think you have been paying attention lately.
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craigb
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 22:12:37
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Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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TheSteven
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 22:57:17
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meh
I haven't heard of people here deleting Sonar from their systems if anything it looks like the number of installs has bumped up significantly because people want to be sure that they have a working copy.
If Sonar/Cakewalk comes back - I'll be here.
If not I'll still be using Sonar for while, probably quite a while.
In the meantime I've got some new tools/toys and I will keep moving forward.
If at somepoint someone takes over Sonar and revives the brand I'll certainly check it out.
If some company is looking to get into the DAW business there's a lot worse ways to go (granted there are issues - but not going there).
At this point I've gotten as disappointed, angry, sad, mad, frustrated as I'm probably going to get over this.
So I'm chilling out, sitting in my rowboat with my beer watching the theater of the SS Sonar having been struck by the Gibson iceberg. Maybe a bit nihilistic but at this I think I prefer to watch the drama as opposed to being part of it.
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz  www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
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Piotr
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/12 23:26:44
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All's true. Anyway I am sometimes feel kind of sadness about it. Just as I were suddenly losing kind of long years friend. Annoying, with many drawbacks but still...
Anyway few weeks before Gibson killed Sonar after another Sonar's crash and insane error like 'disk overrun' while using on system with lots of RAM and SSD during playing I started to prepare to learn secondary DAW (S1). In the hope of waiting for bugs fixing while keeping possibility to work as I need not as program let me.
But still even then I didn't expected possibility no bugs will be fixed anymore. No new features will be implemented... I would be starting from now kind of fixed environment. To take it as it is. Without any more expectations.
But well, it still can be used as before. Awareness of it is fixed will release expectations about improvements. So maybe paradoxically now using Sonar will be giving more pleasure...
Regards, Piotr Sonar Platinum Lifetime
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Blades
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/13 02:07:50
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If I hadn't spent so much time trying to participate and help others around here, and spent so much time defending "the cakewalk", and creating videos to help educate, and, and, and...I might feel different.
But at the end of the day, it is an online forum of people I have mostly not met in the real world. It is a piece of software that I have paid a LOT of money for over time. It is a company for whom I fought and defended, even against it's own embattlements, against its own skeptical (and eventually right) users. It is a theory of software that is even remotely like it used to be. It is in defense of a company who couldn't possibly care less than they do (Gibson, and maybe Cakewalk for that case, since they are really the ones who created a product that was eventually not profitable - and that is what drives a corporation, right or wrong - and they know it/knew it when Roland dropped them, and now inevitably Gibson did). It is with disdain, but also with a sense of "meh".
It's software. I will find something else. I will carry on with my senseless recordings that likely no one listens to anyway. I will create tutorials for a different product because it's what I do. I will participate in another forum, giving free advice to more people at somewhere else I'll likely never meet and think that they care in the process: and maybe they do.
I will continue with my hobby. You will continue with yours. And if it's a business, I hope you will prosper. If it's your living, I hope you will gain, even in the face of this loss. And if you don't care, like I wish I didn't, I hope all goes well for you.
It will go well for me - Cakewalk, Sonar, or something else.
Feeling nostalgic and sarcastic at the same time...
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mudgel
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/13 05:17:57
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☄ Helpfulby jamesg1213 2017/12/13 07:18:57
Are we killing Sonar? No.
I think Cakewalk did that. Despite how good we think Sonar is, it has never reached the prominence we felt it should have. That is something that can’t be laid at the feet of Gibson or Roland before that. There’s something about Cakewalk’s management that has put the company in the under dog position for all time. Perhaps starting off as a one man operation it has never matured to the level required for real success.
For many years Roland was a silent partner with Greg H, before becoming the major stakeholder then the full owner for only a few years before a buy out by Gibson.
Presonus’ Studio One has been on the market since about 2006, a few years after Cakewalk and Roland announced their alliance. The point is that in about the same time, Presonus has far overtaken Sonar in recognition and market perception as a progressive and viable DAW. All this, despite Presonus hardware not being regarded anywhere near as highly.
What could explain the 2 brands’ very different position in the same market? Considering the head start, Sonar’s position hasn’t really changed in all the time that Studio One has been around. Yet the perception of Studio One is, that it has gone from strength to strength. No, Cakewalk has done this to itself.
.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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.
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Re: Are WE killing Sonar?
2017/12/13 07:24:25
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☄ Helpfulby Ionian 2017/12/13 08:22:20
outland144k
First, as Craig said, Gibson killed Sonar
I think you will find that Mr Anderton actually said that 'Gibson didn't kill SONAR, they just buried it' The implication being that SONAR/Cakewalk was already dead, Gibson just gave it a burial after keeping it alive for a couple more years, he actually said that Gibson kept it alive for a couple more years than it otherwise would/could have. I think Cakewalk/SONAR has been dead for a long time, in the sense that it has been loosing money since somewhere in the Roland days, if not before. It's all well and good to blame Gibson for everything ( it seems a very popular thing to do) But the buck has to stop with Cakewalk, whether people want to admit it or not. Cakewalk has been loosing money fro years, even before Gibson. They didn't make a product that was popular or good enough in peoples minds ( outside these insular walls) to make money from it. Take a walk outside this here little bubble and you will see how popular Cakewalk and SONAR really are, there is not a lot of praise for it out there in the real world, and that is not having a go at Cakewalk/SONAR, it's just stating a fact. The fact is that SONAR is generally left out of the conversation when it comes to DAW's, pretty much always has been. 3rd party devs for the most part don't test with SONAR, and therefore historically don't list it in it's ' compatibility lists' or ' tested with' lists, as I'm sure we all know, and as has been testified to by the threads that pop up every now and then complaining about it. You read threads every now and then like " I'm tired of having to make excuses for using SONAR' it has been a recurring thing over the years. It's just a fact whether you want to admit it or not, Cakewalk/SONAR just isn't that popular out there, Cakewalk/SONAR have massive reputation issues out in the real world, the world outside this little bubble. SONAR has a lot of issues, and bugs, they may not effect the long time user, as they have learn't long ago how to work around them, and it has become second nature to the point they don't see the bugs. But just because there is a workaround doesn't mean the bugs don't exist. For me in the end, the buck has to stop with Cakewalk, and blaming others seems to be just a part of this ' emotional attachment' thing that is rife here at these forums, the feeling that Cakewalk can do no wrong that seems to pervade this place. Cakewalk was a business, no more no less, it's all about the bottom line, no different to any other business, and to think otherwise is pure folly. If we were to be honest, and if any of us owned a company that wasn't making any money, instead loosing us money hand over fist year after year, I think in the end we all would have done exactly what Gibson has done. Roland bought Cakewalk, Cakewalk didn't make money, Gibson bought Cakewalk, Cakewalk didn't make money, can you see a pattern here? how long do you expect this to go on? and why should anyone expect it to go on?
Intel i7 4790 @3.6Ghz - 32GB Ram - Windows 10 Pro 64bit - RME Fireface UFX+
Studio One 4 Professional, REAPER, CbB-(Couldnb't be Bothered)
More Plugs than Plumbers Warehouse.
Happy Studio One User Since August 2015
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