Splat 
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Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
In the past bundle files appear to have been buggy as hell.
The natural thing to do nowadays is recommend that people do not use Bundle files, however I wonder if we are short changing a useful facility based on its past poor reputation?
My specific question is has anybody seen any issues with X3D? (Or even earlier patches of X3 if you are able to be specific about which version you had).
Now it would be all very tempting now to bring up comments about previous versions of Sonar, may I politely ask that we avoid talking about versions earlier than Sonar X3, it is a given there have been problems in the past. The point of this thread is to see if bundles are still an issue with X3. I would really like to see peoples serious opinions on bundles and specifically X3 with what they've seen with their own eyes.
I've never had an issue myself, but then that doesn't mean to say there isn't an issue.
Thanks...
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emwhy
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 09:19:54
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I haven't had any problems at all, and that includes using bundle files back and forth on two PCs one using X3D, the other using X1. Edited to add: Alex before saving as a bundle did you rescan your vsts?  Sorry couldn't resist!
post edited by emwhy - 2014/02/06 09:40:16
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 09:58:09
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I just had a friend of mine in a discussion last night, about using bundles for sharing projects.
Myself, I just use Gobbler to transfer a compressed copy of the entire project folder, since in my situation the person I share with and I have the same kind of folder structures set up on our systems.
I will pay attention to this thread, as bundles may work for other situations for me. I just do not know what their reliability status is at this release juncture.
Thanks for the post, Alex - good topic.
Bob Bone
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Splat
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 10:00:36
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Thanks for your input emwhy. Useful info. I appreciate this is probably going to encourage rather than discourage, but I would really appreciate we stick to topic so this thread doesn't get hijacked. It's really getting boring at my end. For those who wish to intimidate me, please realise every day you do this you bring these forums down from a general discussion into a football team arena. That's not helpful to anybody. BTW if you find it funny please appreciate I don't any more, and one of things about posting here should be to have a little respect for other posters, I find it altogether extremely unfriendly being targeted in this way (good intention or not). It's bringing down my morale and really I don't feel like trying to help people any more at the moment. If that's your intention to make my life unpleasant and troll me in these forums, and get others to unknowingly behave like trolls by repeating what you say (like some sort of catchphrase), well done you have succeeded in bringing me down. Now please give me a break. Thankyou... [EDITED FOR TYPOS ETC]
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/02/06 10:14:51
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mudgel
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 10:07:50
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I've never experienced a failure with bundles in any Sonar version let alone X3d. I've heard the bad reputation stated in many posts but never seen a personal experience of failure posted. I've also seen it written that bundles are inherently more fragile and prone to corruption. But again while I've even relayed that information myself, I've never actually read an account of anyone having personally experienced such a problem. On the other hand I have read many times of a Sonar project file becoming corrupted.
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emwhy
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 10:48:02
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Sorry Alex, I wasn't "having a go", just late to the party. I appreciate your input on the various topics here daily, I really do.
Anyway back to bundles, the only time I've ever encountered issues was when Win 7 came out. Any bundle files that I used that contained stereo files of varying bit depths would not open and give me the dreaded "Unexpected Error" message. I could open them in safe mode, but the wave files that were of a bit depth different from the original prject would be blank. I lost a lot of work that way, but luckily still had a machine running XP and could re-save the original bundle.
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jb101
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 11:06:37
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I have not seen any evidence that bundles are "buggy".
Having said that, I would not use them to store my music. All files can become corrupted, and if that happens to a .cwb file, then you have lost everything. If it happens to a .cwp file, then, at least there is a chance that you may be able to retrieve something. At least your audio should be intact. Saving audio with project does seem to have superseded bundle files.
Having said that, I see no problem using them for sharing files. If anything goes wrong, you can send it again. I have used .cwb files to email to Cakewalk staff when working on bugs, and never had a problem.
So, they seem to work fine, but would you use them to store you projects and risk losing everything, however infrequently? I wouldn't. Other times they can be useful, but I see no need to use them on the whole since Cake implemented "save audio with project", and we now have Gobbler.
Just my penny's worth..
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emwhy
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 11:24:56
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I go back with Cake to Pro Audio 8, I'm sure there are guys here who go back farther. My day gig is at a broadcast facility and we've been on Sonar since late 2001. At that time, because most of our projects were about 8 tracks and rarely longer than 60 seconds, bundles made sense for us to share and archive files. But also note that Cake didn't have the per project audio folder option back then either. We still use bundles here, and are projects are still small, but in my home studio where I keep my music mixes which can get huge, I now use the per project audio folder option. If a bundle file from the DVD mix I did back in 2012 got corrupted, you guys would have to talk me off the ledge!
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 11:46:57
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If a CWB file becomes corrupt, its gone. If a CWP with Per Project audio files becomes corrupt, you can save it in most cases.
This is why its good to save and back up using CWP. CWB is great for sharing between studio to studio. But as far as storing, CWP makes more sence.
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jatoth
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 11:59:14
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Alex,
Lighten up.
We ALL appreciate your help on this forum, and I don't believe anyone is trying to "bring you down". I'm sure emwhy was only being light hearted.
Emway, RESET not rescan ;-)
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Anderton
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 12:23:16
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jb101
I have not seen any evidence that bundles are "buggy".
Having said that, I would not use them to store my music. All files can become corrupted, and if that happens to a .cwb file, then you have lost everything. If it happens to a .cwp file, then, at least there is a chance that you may be able to retrieve something. At least your audio should be intact. Saving audio with project does seem to have superseded bundle files.
Agreed. For me, bundle files are convenient as a way to exchange projects and as a "backup to the backup," but I wouldn't use them as my primary project backup.
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Splat
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 12:32:55
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@jatooth - Just to be clear, this was not targeted towards emwhy at all. It was targeted towards the people who are targeting me which should be obvious by now, if they were doing it for light-hearted reasons I would not expect them to do the same thing day after day for weeks (even on threads I'm not even on) and add further derogatory comments clearly targeted towards me. If this persists I would hope a moderator to step in. Thanks.
Anyway on with the thread...
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brundlefly
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 12:37:50
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Bundles have been known to fail to open, but I would not say they're "buggy as hell". I usually recommend using Zip files because they're generally much smaller and can save Audiosnap data. Bundles force you to render or discard Audiosnap edits.
post edited by brundlefly - 2014/02/06 12:48:07
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Splat
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 12:40:05
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To throw the thread back onto topic though, my specific question was when was the last time anybody had any trouble with bundles and X3? We all know people have their own workflow.
Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Lynn
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 12:41:58
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Alex, I've used bundle files since Proaudio 6 with no problems. Out of several hundred files, I've never had one become corrupt. I save both ways, with per-project files and bundle files. I prefer bundle files for swapping with others.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 13:24:07
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Ok so my first Cakewalk was Home Studio (6?) back when it would have been brand new 2006?
Right away I did not like the global audio folder and quickly switched to making my own folders in Windows explorer. There was no pre project option as said. But the results were exactly the same. A folder for each project that contained the CWP and an audio folder. Nice and tidy.
So to me, I don't see the value of a bundle file. I've said it before, blindly hitting "save" for any software on any computer be it a Mac or a PC and having no clue where it is stored is a fools game.
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Lynn
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 14:12:46
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Cactus Music
Ok so my first Cakewalk was Home Studio (6?) back when it would have been brand new 2006?
Right away I did not like the global audio folder and quickly switched to making my own folders in Windows explorer. There was no pre project option as said. But the results were exactly the same. A folder for each project that contained the CWP and an audio folder. Nice and tidy.
So to me, I don't see the value of a bundle file. I've said it before, blindly hitting "save" for any software on any computer be it a Mac or a PC and having no clue where it is stored is a fools game.
I would agree with you, but in order to save a bundle file one has to do a "save as" command first, which clearly asks where you want to save the file. There's nothing "blind" about that procedure at all. While your method may be effective, it adds an extra step or two to the process, and is truly no safer than saving as a bundle file.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 14:20:14
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ive used them in the past and never had any issues but as CJ suggested, if the bundy comes corrupt its gone, if CWP goes array, you always can recover some of it.
this is only purely out of common logic I started doing this too, it wasn't a problem which made me stop doing this.
I only used bundles to send to people.
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John
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 17:23:28
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I haven't had a problem with bundle files either.
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Splat
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 18:15:05
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Thanks all... So from what I have learnt then bundles files aren't buggy. There is a disadvantage however: 1) Statistically you may have more chance of recovering from a project then a bundle. 2) Bundles "force you to render or discard Audiosnap edits." * Advantage of bundle file however: 1) Easy portability. 2) Compact. 3) Defragments audio data **http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR+X2&Lang=EN&Req=AudioPerformance.23.html Interesting.... * Apparently a ZIP file can do this which begs the question why aren't bundle files at least as good as a ZIP? I can see the advantage of not saving audiosnap data but it should at least be an option. ** Wonder why there isn't a facility to do this in Sonar anyway without having to make a bundle file.
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Anderton
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 20:35:57
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CakeAlexS
Apparently a ZIP file can do this which begs the question why aren't bundle files at least as good as a ZIP? I've had about as many corruption problems with zip files as bundle files, i.e., once in a very very blue moon. The file format is not the problem, it's the vulnerability of the storage medium...which can affect any file format. It's just more noticeable when you can't load an entire file with lots of stuff in it.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/06 21:15:11
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it adds an extra step or two to the process, and is truly no safer than saving as a bundle file. The only extra step is creating a new folder and naming it. Also, I have never used a bundle file because I have read way to many threads here where someone has had issues using them. I now see what this is caused by. And there are things that can changed by using them, Therefore, a CWP file in a containing folder with the audio is 99.9% safe unless a hard drive goes south, therefore the back ups we all do each 10 minutes or 10 days.. I have never lost important data because I'm always aware of how I'm storing it. I wish Sonar files were not so large as I would be using Dropbox like I use for all my office files now for backup and computer transfer. My internet is to slow. My main point was we have always had the "per Project" option it was just a little more manual than it is with the new option. In other words , Cakewalk just automated the process so this is good. I see the value in using BUN files to strip away unwanted data so they do have a use.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/09/15 00:12:36
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Splat
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/07 03:03:41
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Anderton
CakeAlexS
Apparently a ZIP file can do this which begs the question why aren't bundle files at least as good as a ZIP?
I've had about as many corruption problems with zip files as bundle files, i.e., once in a very very blue moon. The file format is not the problem, it's the vulnerability of the storage medium...which can affect any file format. It's just more noticeable when you can't load an entire file with lots of stuff in it.
Decent point. The quote was a reference to audiosnap* Cheers.
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John
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2014/02/07 04:34:44
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With Windows 7 or 8 and using an NTFS format for the HDs there is less trouble with files anyway. Bundle files are a safe way to save as just about any other. Its always good to be redundant when you want to be very safe. Save more rather than less. Save 2 bundle files on 2 different HDs for being very safe. Make backups and so on. Use per project files too.
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FLZapped
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2015/09/12 12:53:14
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Seems to me the problem is in SONAR (X2 studio in my case). I recorded some stuff that I saved as bundles on my laptop (Vista 32 bit) then copied the file folder to my desktop when I got home via a memory stick. It opened the files properly once. Then failed - and now none of my bundle files open. Some of my .cwp file don't open properly(on both machines). Went back to the laptop. They failed. Tried to recopy back from the memory stick - they still failed. Same with the desktop (Win 7 pro 64 bit) In all cases, SONAR x2 opens the bundle file, but the audio clips all show as busy and will not play. The audio folder shows no .wav files in them - including on the memory stick. I have a copy of Music Creator on my laptop and it doesn't even recognize the files as being a Cakewalk file. It does properly open the .cwp and .CWB files it created even though SONAR X2 will not (Same "busy" problem). -Bruce
post edited by FLZapped - 2015/09/12 13:41:17
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Anderton
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2015/09/13 10:55:47
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There is nothing inherently unreliable about the bundle file; when the subject of potential bundle file reliability has come up before, I've asked if anyone has ever saved a bundle file, then re-loaded the bundle file, and not have it work. So far, that hasn't happened. Even in your case, if it opened once, then it was saved properly. Maybe check that the folder locations for audio samples are correct? (The "busy" problem can also happen if a computer can't find the audio interface.)
However - I see no value to bundle files since per-project folders became available as a way to save projects. A bundle file is like a zip file in the sense that if one bit gets dropped or there's an issue with the storage medium, the file will likely be unreadable. If you save a project folder, then even if you lose a few cells on a memory stick or your hard drive sheds some particles and one of the files becomes corrupted, you can still recover the other ones.
I hope you didn't lose the project but if you use that particular memory stick again, I'd recommend re-formatting it. Although it seems solid-state memory sticks should be reliable, I've collected a zillion of them over the years due to receiving them as press packages at trade shows. Although the majority work fine, several have failed, so I use them for temporary backup only and never as a sole backup...mostly just for file transfers, which seems to be your main use as well. But I'd recommend transferring a per-project folder instead of a bundle file.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2015/09/13 11:03:02
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Anderton
However - I see no value to bundle files since per-project folders became available as a way to save projects.
Bundling and unbundling elsewhere is a good way to clear out some crap from your projects. May even repair some of them...
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/09/13 11:11:39
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2015/09/13 11:04:15
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OK I'm probably looping.. I'll bundle up and try to repair myself....
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Elffin
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2015/09/13 11:39:49
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Should I bounce any tracks that have ussd audiosnap before bundling the file?
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tenfoot
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Re: Are bundle files given a raw deal in X3? (Do they now work?)
2015/09/13 12:03:36
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Doktor Avalanche
Anderton
However - I see no value to bundle files since per-project folders became available as a way to save projects.
Bundling and unbundling elsewhere is a good way to clear out some crap from your projects. May even repair some of them...
I agree with the Doktor. I use them all the time when I finish a project to transfer data from my studio to my live rig. I have never had one not work in any version of Sonar, and it is a great way to clean out all of the excess baggage accumulated during production as only audio used in tracks is copied. Quite often when you delete audio from a track it remains in the audio folder, and I have always found the clean audio folder function to be a bit dodgy. Great point re long term storage that any lost data in a bundle causes the entire project to fail Craig - hadn't thought of that, but don't use bundles for that purpose anyway. I would hate to see the write bundle function disappear though!
post edited by tenfoot - 2015/09/13 12:17:48
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