cahforsyth
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Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
Hi Sonarites: While I'm an experienced musician - I'm NOT experienced with creating EDM - but I want to explore it. Are there tools or soundsets that are commonly used in helping to make this kind of music? I hear a lot of filter and syncopated effects, etc, and wonder if there's a "toolbox" of sorts that help to create many of the atmospheric and other elements? What tools / instruments in Sonar Platinum are useful for this specific genre? Any and all comments / suggestions would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks in advance, Christopher
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sharke
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/06 12:23:41
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It's common to use samplers/drum sequencers for EDM drum and percussion tracks, I use Geist because to be quite honest it's head and shoulders above everything else. You can sequence all of your drum tracks within Geist itself without having to use Sonar's MIDI or step sequencer. Geist 2 is on its way, but if you ever see Geist 1 on sale cheap then pick it up, it's an awesome tool. Other than that though, EDM producers use a wide range of synths, both software and hardware, to get their sounds. Popular ones are Massive, Absynth, Sylenth, Reaktor and Z3TA+2. It's important for the synths you use to have a wide range of routing and modulation possibilities, plus the ability to stack oscillators and detune them. Being able to route LFO's and envelopes to filters and oscillators is a must, and you're also going to want to be able to map rotaries and sliders on your controller to things like filter cutoffs and envelope controls on the synth, if you want to get that "human" performance element to your tracks. A good mono analog synth or analog synth simulation is also invaluable for bass and lead sounds. I use Native Instrument's Monark. In fact if you're looking to make EDM then NI's Komplete package is a great start and gets you the most bang for your buck. It also contains Massive, Absynth, Reaktor and Kontakt as well as tons of effects. To be honest Sonar isn't really the popular choice among EDM producers - most I hear of are using either Ableton Live, Reason or Logic. Ableton and Reason have lots of functionality geared toward making EDM. Personally though I think Sonar is more than up to the task. Apart from the synths though, you'd be surprised at how many EDM producers just use the same effects as every other producers. Delays, reverbs, compressors - you don't need anything EDM "specific," anything with the usual features and controls will do. There are a TON of sample and loop packs for EDM though. Sonar does come with a lot of EDM orientated audio content.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/06 12:47:48
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That's probably a pretty broad question considering how varied dance music is these days but Sonar does seem to have all the necessary tools. Full disclosure... I'm not a dance guy but have put together some stuff just to try it out and actually might do some "industrial" type stuff (I love old Skinny Puppy, Ministry, Foetus, etc) which is pretty similar. First off I'm pretty sure there are third party plugs/instruments that probably would make things a lot easier for the genre. Can't help you there so I'll just throw out some things inside SOnar to check out. 1) Track View: A lot of this stuff can be done right inside Track View with audio and MIDI Groove Clips. You can just drag them into the TV, drag them around, drag them out to extend them, etc. They obey tempo and pitch changes (if they've been programmed to do so). With audio grooves you just drag 'em in and go. With MIDI grooves obviously you have to send them to a synth. Honestly I personally find this is the simplest way to do it but that's because I already know a buttload about the TV. Sonar ships with a ton of samples and MIDI loops which are kind of okay but probably a little limiting so snagging samples and MIDI grooves from elsewhere (or designing your own) is a way to break that ceiling or "mangling" the ones you have. To learn how to do it at first though might as well use whats available with Sonar just to check it all out. 2) Loop Constructor: Audio Groove Clips (or any audio clips) can be seriously tweaked, mangled or just made to respond to tempo changes better in this view. It's little hard to describe so watch some vids and read up on it. There are all sorts of automatable effects in there and you can get right at the individual transient "slices" to do some super crazy stuff. It's basically your "Groove Clip" editing station. 3) Matrix View/Cyclone: The Matrix View is kind of a "pad" based work area. Like a sampler but more intense because you can load up MIDI grooves as well and it's got a columns and rows system that lets you trigger single or multiple samples at once in one shots, loops, etc and record them straight into the Track View. Again kind of hard to explain so just read up on it or find some video tuts. Cyclone is more of an old school pad trigger thing where you load up samples in the cells and set them off in various ways. It has a little loop editor too (like the Loop Constructor). I kind of found it a little simpler to learn at first than the more robust Matrix view. It is pretty old though but might be a good place to just wrap your head around that workflow. 4) Synths, synths, and more synths: You can use any of the virtual instruments with just the included patches being fed by MIDI Groove Clips (or MIDI you write and convert to Grooves yourself). Rapture is a pretty "synthy" sounding one as is Zeta+. Dim Pro has more traditional sounds (but also synth patches). Session Drummer has some "808" patches (that old "dance/hip hop" electronic drum sound) and other useful sounds. Addictive Drums is more realistic but has presets that mangles the acoustic kit samples to be more electronic (and you can buy the electronic drum adpaks). Even some of the synths had drum samples you can use for beats. However really you can use any of the synths and instruments included with Sonar (there are a buttload) to season your tracks with all sorts of crazy (and traditional) sounds. Really just get a good MIDI drum beat going and go nuts over top of it with all the crazy noises at your disposal. Groove Clips really do seem the way to go (IMO) unless you want to do things live. In which case the sampler trigger "pad" stuff is probably better. Cheers.
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sharke
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/06 13:52:54
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What Beepster said. I often overlook things like the Matrix view and loop constructer.
On a more general note, the easiest part of EDM is in creating 2 awesome bars with tons of beats and textures and chords and leads which you loop endlessly thinking you've got a hit on your hands. The hardest part is bringing yourself to disable that loop and actually build it into an arrangement with intros, verses and choruses, creating build-ups, tension and release. Very easy to succumb to loopitis.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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cahforsyth
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/07 16:04:31
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Thank you so much to the three of you who responded - really very much appreciated!
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sharke
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/07 16:55:07
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The two of me say you are welcome!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/07 16:59:44
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sharke The two of me say you are welcome!
Whew! I was concerned that the voices in my head had become audible. :-p
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sharke
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/07 18:21:57
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Beepster
sharke The two of me say you are welcome!
Whew! I was concerned that the voices in my head had become audible. :-p
It's when they start reaching out of your head and stealing candy off the supermarket shelves that you have to start worrying.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Anderton
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/07 21:43:41
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SONAR was so far ahead of the curve on REX files that when they came into vogue, people had forgotten that SONAR got there years before everyone else. Even Reason didn't catch up with SONAR's multitrack REX loop playback facilities until Dr. Octo-Rex appeared. Here are some articles about SONAR, REX files, and looping, in chronological order: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar06/articles/sonartech.htmhttps://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov08/articles/sonarworkshop_1108.htm (this is pretty old stuff, but you'll figure out the differences compared to today's SONAR) https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar09/articles/sonarworkshop_0309.htmhttp://www.keyboardmag.com/compose---arrange/1329/tips-and-tricks-for-loops-and-beats/29601http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar15/articles/sonar-workshop-0315.htmhttp://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/using-cakewalk-dimension-pro-with-rex-files Along with Sony Acid Pro 7, which I believe is no longer being updated, SONAR has the most facile ability to create stretchable loops, especially with respect to editing. Also Rapture as an instrument was also way ahead of the curve in terms of being able to do exceptional EDM-type sequencing and modulation. - MIDI groove clips are excellent for building up a library of stepped filter sequences and the like.
- You can draw waveform-based automation curves (including random) that sync to tempo.
- Sidechaining allows for all kinds of audio-gating options (e.g., drums gating pads).
- Melodyne adds a lot of the vocal effects that are in vogue.
I could go on, but like so many things, SONAR has what you need...you just have to find it. The one opinion I'll offer is that I love EDM, but I don't like it when it's formulaic. Remain true to the spirit of the music, not the implementation. For example I crossover a lot with rock and EDM...best or worst of both worlds, depending on your viewpoint.
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2:43AM
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/08 08:42:42
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sharkeTo be honest Sonar isn't really the popular choice among EDM producers - most I hear of are using either Ableton Live, Reason or Logic. Ableton and Reason have lots of functionality geared toward making EDM. Personally though I think Sonar is more than up to the task. It's a mixed bag as far as DAW's go for EDM music. I'm not sure why Ableton is so popular in the electronic-music. I think it all started with tools and workflow geared for live play. I keep in contact with a few ambient artists, and I have asked them their DAW's of choice. I think it comes down to personal preference really. One uses Cubase and Ableton, another uses same crazy thing called Kyma, and another uses Sonar. I've tried Ableton in a demo once, and I could not understand it nor have the desire to learn it. First of all, I can't stand the looks of the interface. The 2-dimensional "flat" stuff just rubs me the wrong way. sharkeOn a more general note, the easiest part of EDM is in creating 2 awesome bars with tons of beats and textures and chords and leads which you loop endlessly thinking you've got a hit on your hands. The hardest part is bringing yourself to disable that loop and actually build it into an arrangement with intros, verses and choruses, creating build-ups, tension and release. Very easy to succumb to loopitis. +1000 to this, although I think this is where Ableton's workflow takes the lead. But Loopitis is a serious disease...a serious and debilitating disease. And as you get older, it seems that Loopitis occurs more often and can negatively impact creativity!
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/08 09:13:47
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> Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
Drugs.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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2:43AM
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/08 09:49:19
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Beepster...(I love old Skinny Puppy, Ministry, Foetus, etc) which is pretty similar. Awesome Beepster! Me too! As you may already know, the best SP album (in my opinion) just celebrated it's 25-year anniversary on October 30th! That album is one, Too Dark Park. And I'm still waiting for someone to post on YouTube the old, 1980's beer commercial (Bud Lite or Bud Dry) that featured "Everyday is Halloween" as the background song. It's probably something old Alien Al doesn't want to resurface!
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cahforsyth
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/08 20:46:34
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HAhahahahha. You guys rock. Yeah - didn't mean to split you into 2 beepster. this is all very helpful - thanks to all
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BobF
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/08 21:11:07
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Anderton The one opinion I'll offer is that I love EDM, but I don't like it when it's formulaic. Remain true to the spirit of the music, not the implementation. For example I crossover a lot with rock and EDM...best or worst of both worlds, depending on your viewpoint. 
I like it Craig!
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Resonant Serpent
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/08 22:23:57
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A deep chesty bawl echoes from rimrock to rimrock, rolls down the mountain, and fades into the far blackness of the night. It is an outburst of wild defiant sorrow, and of contempt for all the adversities of the world. - Aldo Leopold
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re: Are there tools specific to making EDM genre music?
2015/11/09 06:31:04
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I have a few secret weapons I use. outside of sonar would be Effectrics, Turnado, VPS bundle , Dune, wow, ohmboys, Ultraloop,timefreeze,punch attack fet compressor ,Catanya, list goes on and on.. oh yeah tools inside of sonar I use would be the sonitus gate and compressor for side chaining, Matrix view never used not very productive for me, a good one is the step sequencer, the loop browser , list can go on and on, but as per daw they all do almost the same ,
post edited by djjhart@aol.com - 2015/11/09 06:51:52
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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