Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's

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ekeys
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2007/05/30 14:43:44 (permalink)

Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's

What are the main differences between P5 arpeggiators and Sonars. Is it pactical to use Sonar's Arpeggiator live or is it best to stick with P5 or hardware (say a mo6 or roland xa). Thanks.
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    syrath
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 14:57:42 (permalink)
    Comparing them is like comparing night and day. Project5s arpeggiator is quite an advanced arpeggiator and can use Project5 patterns as its "rythym" allowing you a lot of custom control over the sequences, as well as having more than a few preset patterns. Its much easier to use (IMO). The Sonar arpeggiator also comes with Project5.
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    b rock
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 15:18:55 (permalink)
    What are the main differences between P5 arpeggiators and Sonars.
    Project5's have more parameter controls and range, are more configurable through the use of pattern files, and every parameter can be MIDI-Learned or automated. Much of this can be written into a .ptn file, and there's an arp all set to access on every track.
    Is it pactical to use Sonar's Arpeggiator live or is it best to stick with P5 or hardware (say a mo6 or roland xa).
    That's difficult to say without knowing how deeply you'd like to take it. Hardware is arguably 'easier'. Personally, I rely on an Alesis Ion live for the 4 internal arpeggiators, whether or not I'm using the Ion as a sound source.
    #3
    ekeys
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 16:09:16 (permalink)
    Wow, I did not know the ion had 4 arpeggiators. Does the micron have the same. If so, that would be a "cheap" buy.
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    b rock
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 16:50:25 (permalink)
    the ion had 4 arpeggiators. Does the micron have the same.
    I believe so. (There's people here who have or had the Micron who'd know the details). Also a phrase recorder. [Here's the link to the manual.] I've been waiting for the price to drop just a little bit to double the Ion engine. I went with the Ion because of all of the hands-on control. Every knob, button, and most functions transmit MIDI (including the arpeggiators), so it does double-duty as a great controller keyboard.

    As far as the internal arps are concerned: Four independent ones that can also be sync'ed or identical. Each one has 32 patterns and random, 1-16 beats long, up to a four octave spanning that's positioned up, down or centered. The note order can be forward, reverse, 'as played', up-down (inclusive or exclusive), and octave jump. There's a tempo multiplier/divider, and latching.

    Using other features like keyboard splits, you can combine multiple arps together, or keep them separated. In a live situation, I'll often play without them for the most part, and use the individual Part Enables or Arp Enables to blend them in combinations. I've got some 'live' tracks that demonstrate that technique floating around here somewhere. Some just use the Ion sound engine; other trigger Dimension Pro and Rapture.
    #5
    ekeys
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 17:20:29 (permalink)
    Sounds interesting. Did you consider the novation xiosynth? It is newer and is more up to date, but still does not have as many hands on controls as the ion. It does interface with a computer very well.
    #6
    b rock
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 17:30:42 (permalink)
    Did you consider the novation xiosynth?
    Yes, sir. I did. I look at everything. I've got three smaller Novations that I adore for recording purposes. When I was shopping for a live solution, the Ion was the best fit. I could extend the limited voices with the rack gear that I already had, and the bonus was that it turned out to be a great extra controller after the gigs.

    Right now, I'm trying to show some restraint, until I can bear to part with the chunk that a Dave Smith Poly Evolver will require. I don't know why I'm fighting that ... it's inevitable.
    #7
    Nick P
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 18:44:24 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: b rock

    Right now, I'm trying to show some restraint, until I can bear to part with the chunk that a Dave Smith Poly Evolver will require. I don't know why I'm fighting that ... it's inevitable.



    I'm waiting for at least 8 voices and 4 parts of multi-timbrality. If they could do 8 voices and 2 parts in the early eighties, I'm sure they can do it today. Ultimately a Dave Smith Poly Evolver w/ 16 voices and 4 MIDI parts would be the bomb. Price it at $3,000 or less.

    In the meantime, and believe me I am a confirmed analog purist, I am very impressed with the Korg Radias range, which has now "evolved" (no pun intended) to the R3 (very inexpensive) and the EXB-Radias board for the new M3 workstation. True, not an OB-8, but a very warm, phat sound that more than any other hardware VA takes me back to those great times.

    An R3 is definitely on my list.

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    #8
    ekeys
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/30 22:50:25 (permalink)
    Regarding the Ion, the way I understand it, is that the arps are fixed. Does that present a problem for you since you can't program your own arps for a live situation.
    Also, I figure you consided the Korg Microx. How did that stack up against your current live set up?
    #9
    b rock
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/05/31 00:43:20 (permalink)
    I've been using the Ion for a few years now. Many of the alternatives mentioned weren't available at the time of purchase. Also, my setup has been evolving for much longer than that. So any new additions have to blend in with a quirky mix of analog KBs, rack modules and FX, homemade electronics, and newer pure digital. MIDI is often the common thread.
    the way I understand it, is that the arps are fixed.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean here. The 'patterns' are rhythmic overlays on whatever notes are played in. Those are effectively transformed into many more overlays by exposing more or less of the pattern length. Your keyboard chops control the 'rhythm over the rhythm' underneath. The length parameter is also the 'loop point' for the rhythmic qualities, so four running in parallel offers an astounding number of variations.

    All of those can be adjusted as you play, as can the note order, spanning, tempo divider, etc. I mentioned flying in four Parts and blending the 4 distinct arps that come along. There's also storage for 512 presets, each with another base combination of four arpeggiators. For some situations, I've almost duplicated a preset audibly over a handful of preset slots. The difference being each has a unique base arpeggiator configuration. So, within four clicks on a foot pedal (program changes), 16 base arp setups figure in to the same performance situation.

    It may sound complicated, but (believe me) I've set it up to be as easy as possible. Most of the time, I have to play keyboards with a slung guitar in the way.
    #10
    maxthecat
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/06/01 13:24:12 (permalink)
    Dumb question, but I can't find the arpeggiator in Sonar 6 PE. Can someone point that out to me?
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    b rock
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/06/01 13:56:23 (permalink)
    To apply it: Process -> MIDI Fx -> Cakewalk FX -> Arpeggiator.
    In a track: Right-click in the FX bin of a MIDI track. MIDI Plugins -> Cakewalk FX -> Arpeggiator.
    #12
    maxthecat
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    RE: Arpeggios - Sonar vs. P5's 2007/06/01 16:45:43 (permalink)
    Thanks B Rock. I couldn't figure out where that was and didn't see it in the manual.
    #13
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