mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/20 20:19:14
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I spoke too soon. My latest project with 30 instances of Dune 2 in instrument tracks got hosed. I tried various things to try to revive it, e.g. open a simple project so that I'd get sound, then open the "bad" project as a 2nd project loaded. X3 pauses indefinitely, then when I click on something I get: "An unhandled win32 exception has occurred in SONARSTD.exe". For kicks, I chose to debug (I have Visual Studio), and I get this in Visual Studio: "Unhandled exception at 0x00007FFA0961961A (mfc110u.dll) in SONARSTD.exe: 0xC000041D: An unhandled exception was encountered during a user callback." I'm open to getting an audio interface, but I don't know if I can go through the hell and disappointment of trying to get it to work. After I upgraded from Windows 8 to 8.1 my UM-1 MIDI interface and Tascam US-322 audio interface stopped working. I haven't been able to get them working again, even with latest drivers. Also, I tried Bitwig as an alternate DAW. Sure it's stable, but it has none of the features I need. I'm stuck. Thinking of taking up the ukulele.
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/20 20:54:11
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To be fair, I can't say if Bitwig Studio is more or less stable than X3. I haven't pounded on BWS as much as I have X3. I'm venting a little. Losing one's work is very frustrating :-(
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/20 21:01:08
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☄ Helpfulby joel77 2014/12/20 21:27:20
Interesting. Someone from Cakewalk who used a US-366 (same basics as a 322) was going to do a SONAR demo to the press, and I had been invited. So he brought the interface and his laptop to San Francisco. When he booted up his demo the evening before for a run-through, he found to his horror that no TASCAM latency setting was long enough. There were crackles, soft synths crashed, and there were other issues. I checked his drivers for the 322 and they were the most current. He said "Oh well, I have ASIO4ALL on my laptop, I guess I'll use that." Aha! I asked him to uninstall ASIO4ALL completely - not just disable it, remove all traces from his computer. He was reluctant but did so. After that, the interface worked perfectly, the latency was low, nothing crashed, and the demo went off without a hitch. I've done a ton of interface reviews over the years, and the TASCAM ones weren't the only interfaces compromised by ASIO4ALL. I need to add my usual disclaimer: This is not a diss, and I applaud ASIO4ALL for a very clever kludge that manages to fool Windows into doing something it wasn't intended to do. But it's a last resort. If you have native drivers for an interface, use those and completely uninstall ASIO4ALL. Driver conflicts are a little like a game of chance; they affect some programs and interfaces but not others. Why take a chance?
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 01:48:10
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Thanks for sharing that story Craig. I uninstalled ASIO4ALL, and attempted to re-install the Tascam US-322, and this time it actually worked! I let this little victory go to my head and I tried to re-install the driver for the Roland UM-1 MIDI interface. Ah, such hubris. The UM-1 will not work, period. Now I'm looking for a MIDI interface.... THAT WORKS. Tall order, I know. I need a MIDI interface because my M-Audio Axiom won't work if I use its USB output, because the MIDI connection is a cheap, worthless piece of junk, that disconnects when you look at it the wrong way. I'm still not happy with the Tascam audio interface, as it doesn't have a digital out, hence the sound quality is unacceptable to me. I've order the US-366, which has a digital out. Hopefully it will work!
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 02:33:23
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And I'm still having issues, even when using the Tascam US-322 audio interface, btw. X3 crashes when I try to add 20+ instrument tracks with Dune 2 as the VSTi. The most recent crash resulted in the fault reporter popping up. Here's the actual URL I can check on for status on the problem: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status?id=30368&email=mleghorn@comcast.net The associated project is completely hosed. Attempts to start the audio "engine" result in very nasty cracking noise. I managed to "revive" the project by deleting all but one instrument track. What is wrong with my system? ASUS i7 laptop, 12 GB RAM, Windows 8.1, Tascam US-322 audio interface, Sonar X3 Studio (latest version), M-Audio Key Studio 49 (connected by USB).
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 03:42:18
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Cancel the order and get an interface that has a digital out and MIDI interface. You'll only need to go to one company if you have support issues. The TASCAM US-2x2 and US-4x4 have excellent pres, lower latency, and MIDI...but no digital I/O. TASCAM did significant market research and found people considered preamps and MIDI more important.
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 03:43:57
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That's a lot of cup-hungry tracks. Have you tried freezing at least some of them?
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 03:54:54
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Also, a sound card is going to have not the best audio quality...no wonder you want to use the digital out. I think most interfaces will outperform your sound card's audio quality by a significant amount. Ultimately, though, I suspect your instrument tracks are like having a sedan pulling a trailer. The transmission is going to blow at some point.
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 12:02:12
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Thanks for the advice Craig. I'm going to stick with the order for the US-366 for now. I'll address the MIDI interface issue later, as it's not a high priority. As for sound quality of the digital out of my sound card: it's perfect -- nothing can top it. For what it's worth, it's Realtek HD, and it supports up to 192000 Hz / 24-bit. My audio system downstream of the digital out (Burson Audio Conductor, HD800, Cardas Clear cable) gives the whole picture. If the sound isn't perfect, I hear it :-)
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 18:59:53
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mleghorn I'll address the MIDI interface issue later, as it's not a high priority.
There are several cables that are MIDI to USB converters. Might save you the hassle of dealing with an interface, and they're inexpensive. Haven't used them myself so can't recommend anything in particular.
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 19:01:18
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mleghorn As for sound quality of the digital out of my sound card: it's perfect -- nothing can top it. For what it's worth, it's Realtek HD, and it supports up to 192000 Hz / 24-bit. My audio system downstream of the digital out (Burson Audio Conductor, HD800, Cardas Clear cable) gives the whole picture. If the sound isn't perfect, I hear it :-)
Yes, I was referring to the analog out of your sound card, so of course you'd want to use the digital out. As long as there's no significant jitter one digital out should be as good as any other.
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johnnyV
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 20:01:53
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The Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 has what you are after. And the drivers are proven to work by 100's of Sonar X3 users. Tascam seems to be still struggling with drivers. I have the Tascam us1641 and it works OK, but just OK. I had a huge jump in performance when I bought the 6i6. I keep the Tascam for when I need 16 channels. I guess Bob and I were right about asio4all after4all, I to give them credit for creating a free software that does work really well for a lot of audio applications. It's just never worked with Sonar as far as I can tell from dozens and dozens of threads here over the years. The phrases Sound Blaster and Asio4all will always raise a red flag.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/21 20:39:33
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johnnyV Tascam seems to be still struggling with drivers.
Well, I've been beating up the new drivers for the US-4x4 pretty heavily...if nothing else they're certainly much better than the ones in the V-Studio. I agree that previous generations of TASCAM drivers were problematic, but apparently TASCAM thought so too as they're now doing drivers in-house. And of course, TASCAM tests the drivers extensively with SONAR. Granted the interfaces are quite new, but at least here, it's so far so good.
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/27 18:41:12
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I've started using the Tascam US-366 interface. I've uninstalled ASIO4ALL. I have a project I've been working on that has 8 instrument tracks with Dune 2. I have three busses with Valhalla Room reverb, and sends from the 8 instrument tracks to the three busses. I went away on vacation for a few days, came back, and the project is hosed. When I try to play it, there is a loud click, and all meters on all the busses show red. Can I send Cakewalk this project so they can figure out the problem? Thanks, Mike
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Anderton
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/27 20:22:04
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I'd advise calling tech support first. I'd be willing to bet that your project will play back just fine on most systems where basic issues have been addressed to improve performance with real-time streaming audio. A loud click and all meters showing red is almost certainly a hardware problem; if not, it's a plug-in problem. I don't believe Dune 2 and the Valhalla reverb are unusually CPU intensive, but virtual instruments push a computer much harder than audio tracks. Try opening SONAR and putting in something like six instances of Rapture, six instances of Dimension Pro, and a few Breverb reverbs. What happens? Also there are a variety of issues with laptops that work against performance: - Wi-fi and network adapters need to be off
- Power-saving features need to be turned off because they throttle back the CPU
- The power plan should set the CPU to 100%
- Drivers loaded for functions you don't need, like the drivers to transfer audio to televisions, can impact performance to a huge degree
Have you tried running at the longest possible latency to see if things work? Then you can work backward from there. There are programs like LatencyMon that can show exactly what's going on insider your computer that 's taking up power. There may be startup programs you don't need or drivers for peripherals that are irrelevant but are loaded anyway. Your project is almost certainly not what what's being hosed, unless it's having problems with a particular plug-in; your computer is likely what's being hosed, so fixing the problem requires finding out what's going on with your system. Tech support can walk you through some things to consider. There are also a ton of threads in this forum where people have had similar problems and fixes were arrived at eventually - use google to do a site search on latency, Latency monitor, and wi-fi...see what shows up.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/28 03:00:28
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johnnyV The Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 has what you are after. And the drivers are proven to work by 100's of Sonar X3 users. Tascam seems to be still struggling with drivers. I have the Tascam us1641 and it works OK, but just OK. I had a huge jump in performance when I bought the 6i6. I keep the Tascam for when I need 16 channels. I guess Bob and I were right about asio4all after4all, I to give them credit for creating a free software that does work really well for a lot of audio applications. It's just never worked with Sonar as far as I can tell from dozens and dozens of threads here over the years. The phrases Sound Blaster and Asio4all will always raise a red flag.
Well, in actuality, ASIO4ALL has worked for some folks running Sonar - but it does cause problems on an awful lot of systems, and the conclusion I have reached in my head is that it is not worth the headaches and heartaches. If someone wants to invest time money and effort into using Sonar, then they should if at all possible find a way to buy a dedicated audio interface. A decent audio interface can be purchased for as little as $150, with 2 ins and 2 outs, decent mic pre-amps and converters, midi ports, phantom power, and drivers through Windows 8 and 8-1. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/28 15:05:23
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Thanks to everyone for all of your input on this issue -- Thanks Craig for making me suspicious of other devices and drivers that might not being playing well. I believe I've found the culprit: my M-Audio Keystation 49 keyboard. I'm able to start up all of the supposedly hosed projects as long as I don't have the keyboard plugged in. Go figure. This is all the more reason I need to find a MIDI interface that works with my system. I've ordered the EMU MIDI / USB cable. I've got my fingers crossed. On another note (pun intended), the Tascam US-366 exceeds my expectations. Not only does it work fine with X3, it's an improvement over my on-board sound card. When listening to music on my sound system, which uses the optical out from the sound card or US-366, I'm noticing more detail, space, and dynamics in the recordings. This is huge to me. Best $200 I've ever spent! Thanks, Mike
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/28 16:18:53
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I spoke too soon. Problem came back, even after no longer having the M-Audio keyboard plugged in.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/28 17:18:41
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Just in case - it might be worth running Regedit and doing a 'Find' for the string ASIO4ALL, in case the uninstall didn't delete all the pieces. I dimly recall at least one occasion in the past where an older release of it had left some things behind - believe it was in the current user keys, but if you click on Computer (high-level node in registry hive navigation tree) and then do the find it will search the whole registry for any occurrences of that string. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/28 17:31:01
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Please also list the following information: 1. What is the Sonar Driver Mode? (Preferences>Audio>Playback and Recording) 2. What are the Sonar-reported latency values? (Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings) 3. What is your ASIO Buffer Size set to for your audio interface? 4. What happens if you temporarily Bypass All Effects by hitting the letter 'E' on your computer keyboard, and then hit Play? (I didn't find info yet on web about the potential for latency issues from that Valhalla Room plugin, so you can test that out by doing the Bypass All Effects thing with hitting 'E'. Hitting 'E' again after seeing what happens in Playback will turn your effects back on, by the way). Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 12:50:45
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Bob, When I bypass all effects I get sound when I play. When I hit 'E' again to enable effects, I get no sound. I can toggle back and forth and I always get the same results. Maybe we're getting somewhere? Driver Mode: ASIO ASIO Reported Latencies: Input: 10.9 msec, 524 samples Output: 16.8 msec, 808 samples Total Roundtrip: 27.8 msec, 1332 samples ASIO buffer size -- I couldn't find the value for this in my Tascam interface, but to the right of the Buffer Size slider (disabled) it says: 5.3 msec, 256 samples Thanks, Mike
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stevec
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 13:16:02
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With plugins enabled and no sound, when press Play is the Now Time marker moving forward along the timeline or stuck in place?
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 13:19:28
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When the audio issues go away when the effects are all bypassed, it is a big clue that one or more of the effects that are loaded in the project are meant to be used for mixing and not for recording. Some effects use something called 'look ahead processing' or otherwise chew up a bunch of CPU to do their thing, and these are designed for use once you begin mixing, because they really spike DPC latency. I suppose one of the effects could also just be problematic, but the above is the usual explanation. Please list all of the effects loaded into this particular project. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 13:24:42
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Your latency values also seem about twice as high as what I end up with. I run with an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 when recording (and 1024 when mixing). That gives me the following reported values in Sonar: Input: 4.9 msec, 215 samples Output: 6.8 msec, 256 samples Total Roundtrip: 11.6, 513 samples What interface are you using? Some audio interface control panels use a slider to adjust the buffer size, and may use a different term than ASIO Buffer Size. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 13:38:42
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i went back for a quick cruise from the beginning of the thread. Please list all loaded effects and soft-synths for this project. Thanks, Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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johnnyV
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 13:43:30
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Actually those values are what would be expected for that interface etc. But what I'm reading into the latest update is that one of the effects is stopping your audio from reaching your master buss? Obviously you would now toggle each effect until you find the offender. This is sounding like a signal path issue.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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mleghorn
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 20:15:11
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I'm using the following effects: BlueTubes BrickWall BW2s-3 -- in the Pro Channel FX Chain for the Master buss Three busses with Valhalla Room. Btw, I've noticed that if I press play, then stop, then disable the effects ('E'), I hear the endings of the notes that were played. From my naive layman's perspective, it sounds like the sound is stuck when effects are on, and get unstuck when they're turned on. I tried deleting all the effects from the busses, but still have to press 'E' to get sound.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 21:42:13
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Well, the Brickwall effect has negligible latency, per the web site latency chart (that was so nice of them to have one of those). And, I didn't find any info regarding Valhalla Room, on it potentially causing latency issues. So, I don't know, at the moment what's going on. How many tracks do you have present? How many synths are loaded? Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mettelus
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/29 23:23:04
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Take some time to verify your routings, even disabling FX "feeding" your master buss. From a cursory run on the last several post it seems you may have an effect with a bad output assigned (check effect chains too).
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teego
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Re: What do I do when my project is hosed?
2014/12/30 19:55:05
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mleghorn Bob, When I bypass all effects I get sound when I play. When I hit 'E' again to enable effects, I get no sound. I can toggle back and forth and I always get the same results. Maybe we're getting somewhere? Thanks, Mike
I had this same issue so I disabled plug ins one at the time and would hit play to see if it would go until I found the plug in that caused the problem, not just buses but tracks too. Turned out to be one of the vx 64 plugins. Reinstalled the plug in that was at odds and have not had the problem since.
Computer: Intel core2 quad q8400 @2.66ghz, 4 gb memory,64 bit Windows 7 Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Sonar Platinum Ipswich and Update 1
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