Marshall
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Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
I have posted about this before, so please accept my apologies. I am about to send this to Cakewalk support, but bearing in mind the backlog I have read about, I wanted to “copy in” the forum community. Issue: In many Sonar Platinum projects, I am experiencing audible crackling/interference when my mouse cursor moves across VST GUIs. System: This is a new HP all in one 27 inch PC. I have had it four months. Windows 10, Intel core i7 6700, 16GB RAM. Two graphic adapters – AMD Radeon R7 A360 and Intel HD Graphics 530. Audio interface is a Focusrite 1 st generation 6i6. The machine was bought off the shelf, but I have tweaked it in accordance with Focusrite’s suggestions here (1 to 6 only – not done any “Advanced optimisation”): https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10 Background: About three weeks ago I bought my first ever Waves plugins – L1 Limiter and Greg Wells MixCentric. I noticed the crackling sound as I moved the cursor over these two plugins, so I contacted Waves technical support. They took control of my machine remotely for two hours, and tried a complete reinstall of both Waves Central and the plugins in question. Both graphic adapters’ drivers have been updated to the latest versions. They tried disabling one graphics adapter and then the other. They ruled out interference from my remote mouse. We have tried increasing the buffer size on the Focusrite to very high levels (10ms+ and 442 samples). The problem has got worse, in that the crackling now often happens with non-Waves plugins – e.g. the Sonitus range. The problem is NOT there if used in a very simple project, e.g., if I export a single mixed wav to a separate project and then use the two Waves plugins to master it, there is no crackling whatsoever. However, in a project with say 5 or 6 audio tracks, Addictive drums and EZKeys running, and a few effects, then the problem is there. However, the performance indicators in Sonar show very little CPU usage, and only about 25% of the memory is being used. Finally, in the last few days I have downloaded Tracktion 5, with the sole purpose of testing this issue in another DAW. I have imported a project from one of the Sonar projects I was having these issues with, into Tracktion. The problem does not exist in Tracktion. Thanks for reading. Bill
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Zargg
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 14:50:27
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Hi. Is your Windows up to date? I have both L1 and MixCentric, and have not had those issues. IIRC I read somewhere that some of the microsoft c++ redistributables need to be updated for some newer plugins. Hope it helps. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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brundlefly
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 15:02:53
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First, undo 'optimization' 3. Set processor scheduling to "Background services". This is a long-ago discredited tweak (including by Cakewalk CTO, Noel Borthwick). Audio drivers do not run as services, and nothing SONAR does or uses runs as a service. This is actually giving priority to Windows and 3rd-party services that have have nothing to do with audio streaming or running applications like SONAR. Two other thoughts if that alone doesn't cure it: - Does disabling Always Stream Audio Through FX in Preferences stop it? - Does it happen if you toggle the audio engine off by the button in the Transport module?
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 15:20:55
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I already mentioned the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributables in your previous post and you mentioned Waves mentioned one of them looked "weird". I suggest you contact their support again and bring that up. I suspect it has something to do with it.
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Marshall
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 16:35:35
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Thanks - I have gone back to Waves regarding the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributables. Brundlefly - tried all of your suggestions to no avail, but thank you anyway.
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slyman
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 16:55:17
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☄ Helpfulby Marshall 2016/09/28 18:08:36
+1 I had (or maybe still have?) this issue and I've noticed it in one particular project where any VST GUI I would opened to tweak during playback was producing these crackling noises, getting worse when moving the mouse cursor anywhere on the GUI. I started by disabling all FX and turning plugins one by one, testing the cursor issue between each effect (Lots of those were Waves effects, by the way). Turns out the culprit was TH3. As soon as I enabled it, the crackling started again. I deleted TH3 plugin, played my project about a dozen times, adding more plugins and tweaking them. Did not have this issue since on any other projects (knock on wood). That was 5 days ago, right after I installed both WIN10 Anniversary AND the new Early Access update. Never had this issue happening before. At least, now, I know I'm not the only one............ EDIT: I must add that I've only used TH3 on that specific project.
post edited by slyman - 2016/09/28 17:28:06
Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
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Marshall
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 17:19:03
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slyman +1 I had (or maybe still have?) this issue and I've noticed it in one particular project where any VST GUI I would opened to tweak during playback was producing these crackling noises, getting worse when moving the mouse cursor anywhere on the GUI. I started by disabling all FX and turning plugins one by one, testing the cursor issue between each effect (Lots of those were Waves effects, by the way). Turns out the culprit was TH3. As soon as I enabled it, the crackling started again. I deleted TH3 plugin, played my project about a dozen times, adding more plugins and tweaking them. Did not have this issue since on any other projects (knock on wood). That was 5 days ago, right after I installed both WIN10 Anniversary AND the new Early Access update. Never had this issue happening before. At least, now, I know I'm not the only one............ EDIT: I must add that I've only used TH3 on that specific project.
OMG - bingo!! Just disabled TH3 on my project and the problem has gone away. Only a quick test but you seem to have got it spot on. And now I know I'm not going mad and not the only one. Thanks so much Slyman!
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 17:48:48
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Awesome!!! Glad you guys figured it out. Interesting though that it happened after installing the Waves plugins. That's why I was wondering about the Visual C++.
HP DV7-3085 Laptop (Intel Core i7 720 1.6 GHZ, 6 GB RAM, 1333 MHZ FSB, 2 500GB 7200 RPM Internal HDs, 17" screen), HP 2009m Monitor, 2TB Ext Drive Line 6 UX8 with PodFarm 2 Platinum 2 Joe Meek VC6Q British Channels Sonar Platinum & X3e Producer (64 Bit) AD2 w Roland V-Drums (TD4KX2) Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)KRK VXT 8 Monitors Frontier Alphatrack, Razer Naga Mouse, nanoKontrol2
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 17:54:43
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HP DV7-3085 Laptop (Intel Core i7 720 1.6 GHZ, 6 GB RAM, 1333 MHZ FSB, 2 500GB 7200 RPM Internal HDs, 17" screen), HP 2009m Monitor, 2TB Ext Drive Line 6 UX8 with PodFarm 2 Platinum 2 Joe Meek VC6Q British Channels Sonar Platinum & X3e Producer (64 Bit) AD2 w Roland V-Drums (TD4KX2) Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)KRK VXT 8 Monitors Frontier Alphatrack, Razer Naga Mouse, nanoKontrol2
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slyman
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/28 19:48:16
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OMG - bingo!! Just disabled TH3 on my project and the problem has gone away. Only a quick test but you seem to have got it spot on. And now I know I'm not going mad and not the only one. Thanks so much Slyman! Hi Marshall, I'm relieved that you ended up with the same outcome. Often when you compare notes it ends up being a different problem altogether. Funny because I don't really use TH3. I ended up using it in that project because of a specific stompbox. I personally prefer BIAS FX from Positive Grid. Still, I will do as pinguinotuerto suggested and reinstall it. At least, this could serve other users having the same issue. Hopefully Bakers or Overloud will take note.
post edited by slyman - 2016/09/28 22:16:40
Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
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Marshall
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/29 02:11:11
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My go to guitar amp sim is S Gear but it doesn't have a bass sim, so that's where I use TH3. Will try a reinstall, thanks pingu. Will also drop a note to Overloud.
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Sir Les
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/29 04:20:34
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I am glad you found a solution for the clicks an that mouse issue, in that way. I did have issues with such things back in the day of x3. It seemed more so tied to HDMI audio device...than plug ins. So, Just to be sure, when you setup up a music system for large inputs and outputs of audio, or reads and write, and audio playback. It is best to reduce redundant devices, by disabling them. So, in one of my tests, all "on board audio devices, and wi fi, and if need be Internet nics" get turned off through the bios If you have two video cards, that have HDMI audio ...It can cause issues with the mouse , and your audio device being used, when using another audio source....too many Irqs used, and sharing occurs, some times at random boot up, windows will choose to share with audio ...more than one audio device...and you get issues. So, it might not be the plug ins per say, or completely, although it seems to solve the problem, but a conjoined or confused servicing perhaps lies at the root...It just may be too much over servicing to root and route things properly between video audio, and another audio device, using what ever you are using for audio...And I do not think you are using HDMI audio for Sonar....eh?. So try that out, and put back the th3 plug in and see if it continues to do so, if you want to try?...and see if it clears any....No harm in trying this out as it did solve my problems back in the day....Same thing was kind of going on...And some said to change my mouse..And that did not solve it...you can turn off hdmi through windows "control pannel/system devices...and or through the App for the video card i believe... Hope it is cured though...with no relapses! Cheers
post edited by Sir Les - 2016/09/29 04:50:22
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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slyman
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/29 10:08:41
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Sir Les So try that out, and put back the th3 plug in and see if it continues to do so, if you want to try?...and see if it clears any....No harm in trying this out as it did solve my problems back in the day....Same thing was kind of going on...And some said to change my mouse..And that did not solve it...you can turn off hdmi through windows "control pannel/system devices...and or through the App for the video card i believe...
Hi, Sir Les (fellow Montrealer  !) Thanks for your feedback. My onboard audio is disabled (BIOS). I doubt the High Definition Audio controllers are the issue here. Marshall and I have different systems/motherboards/hardware and such, and removing the plugin seemed to get rid of the problem on the spot for the both of us. I think it's a plugin issue, but I agree that it may also be a combination of TH3 and some other setting/plugin we may have in common. Would be a pain to compare notes and troubleshoot, though....... For now (for me anyways) the solution is simply to avoid using TH3, as I always did before.
post edited by slyman - 2016/09/29 11:29:56
Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
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Sir Les
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/29 14:54:31
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Yes sir it could be...Now try to understand my thinking here...as it is a life long troubleshooting mess with PC. Thus the photo is valid id...as Proof. Video on the monitor goes through the video card, tying in the movement of mouse...audio is also involved on that card...and sometime MS window pairs audio with audio....HDMI audio is or has a codex...Irqs might be shared or in some way the codexing is paired or along side..another Audio device...when you move the mouse over High def screens and or..what makes the Gui...And windows system sounds...and mouse ties also..might have something to do with it...in all, ...Try turning off the HDMI Audio device and use the Audio ASIO for your Audio device...and then Try your Plug ins again. Best to be sure...if this is a futile direction? It will show fruits when tested...LOL.. f it does not bare Fruits to solve for X...then I got more tweaking, and removals to do with the PC learning to remove plug ins I paid for ...(What are they selling now?)....So, This could be a solution you found, I thought I solved by disabling all redundant devices, that can cause glitches in audio+ PC and OS....or it is both, or all, or it is only reduced via taking out one small party part using a Gui on a electrical viewer and grid,, yet not really addressing the Root cause that is masking or "showing movement over that Gui grid" and or tied to a audio ocdex to cause sound to be heard....It is electrical...it is all tied in...So, to reduce that noise...Remove the codex or turn off the device that is on that video card tied to the Gui and grid....Makes sense, if you are using another audio Device...only need one!. Montrealer....eh...We should hook up sometime, and have a cuppa! Doubt before trial...is usually how the bugs get never solved....and you can always turn it back on...So no worries! PM me. Cheers!
post edited by Sir Les - 2016/09/29 15:35:11
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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slyman
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Re: Audible crackling with cursor movement over VST GUIs - referred to Cakewalk Support
2016/09/29 19:21:23
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Sir Les ...Try turning off the HDMI Audio device and use the Audio ASIO for your Audio device...and then Try your Plug ins again.
As I thought, I got home checked my System Devices in Device Manager and my disabled onboard card does not support HDMI Audio as there are no controllers listed in there. As a matter a fact, I have no audio related controllers listed period, therefore no option to select "Audio ASIO device". Merci quand même, mon ami.
post edited by slyman - 2016/09/29 19:57:53
Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
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