rogerl_uk
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Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
Hi I know there has been some discussion about cackles on the x1 forum but as I use v8.5 I have posted this separately I have been suffering from audio crackles, which I believe may be caused by high levels of DPC Latency (>2000us). I have been measuring this using a utility called dpclait. Recently I discovered another free utility called LatencyMon from Resplendence Software. When I run this the latency drops to <100us. My computer spec is: AMD Phenom 9850 quad core 2.50GZ 4GB RAM Windows Vista 64bit Home Premium SP2 (I know this is not the best configuration for a DAW, My sound card is a M-Audio delta 2496 My DAW of choice is Cakewalk Sonar 8.5 build 8.5.3.282 (I am considering the upgrade to x1 soon but find it hard to justify) I have recently stress tested the computer using 14 instances of z3ta and watched a video without any problems whilst running LatencyMon. Does anyone have any suggestions about what could be causing the DPC latency and why it drops when I load LatencyMon? I have contacted both Resplendence Software and the manufacturer of my computer, but neither has yet found an explanation for this.
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evansmalley
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/26 07:32:39
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well, of course, you have tried turning off devices and processes and seen which ones are creating the most latency, right? Frequently, the problem may be the internal sound card or the LAN connection.
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Beagle
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/26 10:14:25
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do you have a wireless NIC onboard or in a PCI slot? or a TV tuner? do you have antivirus running? lots of things like that will cause DPC spikes.
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wintaper
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/26 10:35:16
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What does DPCLat report? What does DPCLat report when LatencyMon is running? Does the value really drop - or does LatencyMon just report a much lower value? What audio driver are you using? (hopefully ASIO) What is your audio driver's latency set to? stress testing plugins with DPC checkers is not useful - audio latency and DPC latency are two different things. high DPC latency is typically caused by hardware, or drivers servicing that hardware. Likely culprits include network cards, wireless cards, other non-standard hardware, HPET, badly written drivers, and the list goes on.
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johnnyV
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/26 11:14:58
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Looks like an interesting piece of Free software.. I'll download and test on the computer I use for such things. Nothing goes into my DAW without testing and heavy scanning first. It seems to report a lot of potential issues. DPC only tells you there is a problem, not where to find it. Crackles in audio can also be caused by miss matched drivers and if memory serves me seems a lot of posts from Delta on Vista users. You might want to search for those key words and see how many complaints there are.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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rogerl_uk
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/26 13:51:01
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Hi all, Thanks for your comments. I have tried to respond to them below. evansmalley, Yes I have tried disabling drivers and unplugging and disabling the lan. Beagle, no I do not have a tv tuner or wireless nic wintaper, DPClait reports the latency at over 2000us until I load LatencyMon. Then both report the DPC latency to drop to < 100us. closing LatencyMon results in DPC latency climbing back up to>2000us. The audio driver I am using is the M-audio driver for the sound card. I have also tried ASIO4All, and the AMD drivers (the last in desperation). johnnyV, I have searched many of these posts for a solution to DPC latency but not yet found one (very few even mention DPC latency as an issue). There are many posts saying Vista is no good for audio and I have also found posts with issues about the AMD drivers. All, One point with LatencyMon it seems to use a lot of processor on cpu 0 measured using Process Explorer, but this doesn't seem to cause a problem!? Finally my reason for posting this is to see if anyone has come across this issue and could recommend another way to analysing the problem and hence a solution (not just turning off drivers, or a minimum configuration boot which I have tried countless times). Having said that many thanks for your input. johnnyV, can you let me know if you find any issues with LatencyMon, please? Many thanks to all RogerL_UK
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johnnyV
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/26 15:09:17
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Yes I will, but won't be until tomorrow. You mention Spikes of 2000us when using the DPCLAT meter, Lot's of us use that meter and I have never questioned it's accuracy. If this other product is better I will certainly use it instead. But even so if that is the reading from DPCLAT I believe you do have a issue. Are those occasional spikes or is that steady? A good system should be a steady green down below 200us. Occasional yellow spikes seem to cause no problems , but any red spikes must be dealt with. A steady red is a no go. As mentioned above, usually just staying off the internet and toggling unnecessary background programs solves the problem. With laptops battery management and wireless cards seems to be worst offenders. Open the task manager and see how many processes are running. Under XP I keep mine down to 20. I realize newer OS use a lot more and I think Vista is real bad. If it was me I would change to Windows 7. The other possibility is the Vista drivers are bad.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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rogerl_uk
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/27 05:03:40
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Hi johnnyV That's steady red, but it disappears when I run LatencyMon, but returns to 2000us when I stop LatencyMon! I have no idea as to how to confirm the accuracy of DPClait. I only found it in an article in computer Music magazine, some time ago. Nor do I know how to confirm the accuracy of LatencyMon, but both meters report latency in the same order of magnitude when I run them together. I have put down differences in absolute values to sampling intervals, but the differences are relatively small. In the short term I will run LatencyMon when using Sonar.
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Beagle
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/27 07:59:23
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yeah, if it actually IS less when you're running the LatencyMon, then just run it when using sonar. if that works then it's a great workaround.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/27 12:26:37
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Well read this so I downloaded the other latency Mon but it's buggy and just shows an error message when I try to run it, I don't have any patients with buggy free downloads so I will give it a miss. It is only a trial version anyhow. Are you running both meters at the same time?? So what I read is the DPCLAT meter is in the red when run by it self? correct? But when you run the other meter the red goes away?? If you run the DPCLAT meter and it's in the red you need to see whats causing it.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2011/05/27 12:29:17
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bitflipper
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/27 13:51:30
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just shows an error message when I try to run it LatencyMon is not compatible with XP, but it doesn't verify the O/S on startup and then spell that restriction out for you like a well-written program would. Instead it just raises an error. But hey, it's probably written by some student on his laptop between classes. I give the guy credit for putting it out there.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Cactus Music
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/27 14:44:15
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Thanks Bit, So saying that, should the OP trust it's reporting or stick with good ol' DPCLAT?
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rogerl_uk
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/28 05:46:48
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Cactus You are correct, when DPCLAt is run by itself it shows red, and when I load LatncyMon & DPCLAT it shows green and both meters show similar latencies. re your point about trusting LatencyMon, do you have any suggestions about benchmarking either meter? Finally, I realise that there is something causing the high levels of latency I and would like to identify what it is. However, having disabled drivers to no avail, I would welcome a practical suggestion about how to identify the root cause.
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Beagle
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/28 05:49:57
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open task manager and close things which are not 'system' run one by one as you watch the DPC Latency checker to see which program causes it to return to normal. of course you'll have to remember which one does. also, doing this may crash your system depending on which programs you remove, so it may take a lot of trial and error and rebooting to find something.
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wintaper
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/28 12:25:55
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A good system should be a steady green down below 200us. Actually, my system runs steady 9us ... as long as I disable HPET in the bios. With HPET enabled, the same system runs at a steady 120us - much higher.
Intel i7 @ 3.60GHz, 12GB DDR3 1600MHz, Win7 / OSX 10.6.6, Sonar 8.53 / Pro Tools 9.0.1, RME RayDAT, UAD2-Quad, Focusrite OctoPre (x4), Euphonix MC Mix, Tascam US2400, Monette Ajna (x2), 15' Macbook Pro
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rogerl_uk
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/28 12:57:04
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Thanks Beagle, I'll try that Rogerl_UK
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Cactus Music
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/05/28 13:34:48
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Another way to disable unwanted processes is to RUN msconfig. Check "hide all Mircosoft" and see what is there. You'll normally find a lot of stuff that was installed with software, like camera, printer, anti virus etc. None of this ussually causes big spikes but I wipe most of it as a housekeeping routine anyhow. Most only cause delay's in boot up, but it's good to know whats going on anyhow. I also go into "add or remove software" and look for stuff I don't need, There you'll also find remove Windows components so you can safely remove things like Window Messenger etc. Of course this might be in a different place under Vista. I always disable things like System Restore, Auto updates, Remote access. Found under Systems. But all that is small stuff. I've never had to tweak the BIOS but I know some do.
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illtechstudios
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/02 22:27:30
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i have a problem like this running sonar 7 pe. it only happens when i have a lot of tracks. i'll play the music and it will start crackling so i stop and play again it stops. i beleive my problem is my video card because when the musics playing and i move my window up and down it crackles. i recently recorded a whole band for 9 hours straight and was worried this would happen but it didnt. i was also only using one monitor during this, rather than my dual monitor setup
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Resplendence
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/05 12:33:14
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LatencyMon is not buggy. We do just do not wish to accommodate those kind of idiots who do not wish to take the effort to read the requirements before running the software they download. The executable is statically linked against libraries that require Vista or greater, we do not wish to bloat the package with a separate executable to check the current running OS. Also the installer does not check the OS for a reason, that is that it is still possible to install the program and save it to a network location for use on other systems later. And no, this software is not written by a student between sessions but by a highly skilled and seasoned Windows kernel engineer. A lot of serious engineering went in this software and there is a good reason why this software is unique in its kind.
post edited by Resplendence - 2011/06/05 12:38:03
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Beagle
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/05 15:03:53
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Resplendence LatencyMon is not buggy. We do just do not wish to accommodate those kind of idiots who do not wish to take the effort to read the requirements before running the software they download. The executable is statically linked against libraries that require Vista or greater, we do not wish to bloat the package with a separate executable to check the current running OS. Also the installer does not check the OS for a reason, that is that it is still possible to install the program and save it to a network location for use on other systems later. And no, this software is not written by a student between sessions but by a highly skilled and seasoned Windows kernel engineer. A lot of serious engineering went in this software and there is a good reason why this software is unique in its kind. wow. a little defensive AND "offensive" aren't we? someone says something you didn't like about your product so you create a forum ID just to call them an idiot? I'll be knocking down your door to give you MY money soon. wait for it.
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Resplendence
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/05 15:40:11
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The forum ID was created to selflessly offer this utility to the audio community. On the topic of your money: there is no way you can pay for something this good.
post edited by Resplendence - 2011/06/05 15:41:19
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johnnyV
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/05 22:44:30
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Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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Beagle
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/06 15:38:04
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Resplendence The forum ID was created to selflessly offer this utility to the audio community. On the topic of your money: there is no way you can pay for something this good. good thing because with your attitude it wouldn't matter. you have soiled the name of this "good" software.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/06 21:20:46
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Real-time audio suitability checker for Windows 7/Vista/2008 (x86 and x64) sorry I missed the small print! But " how to win Friends and support on the internet" aside, What happened to the OP? I agree Beagle, I would have tried the software on my daughters Vista Laptop but now I would never recommend it. Makes me wonder how Dan found this thread? I guess if you google you company name?? No way the OP was just spamming this forum.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Audio Crackles and DPC Latency
2011/06/06 21:24:23
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