Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug)

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ralf
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2017/01/02 08:09:40 (permalink)

Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug)

I have a particular project template, where I have serious problems with audio drop outs due to high CPU load. While the project only uses about 20% of total CPU power, the first thread (out of 12) in the Performance module is often going into the red area and then sometimes stops the audio engine. With load balancing activated, the first thread goes down close to zero, but the drop outs happen nonetheless. For whatever reason, the problem is only with that particular project, while other projects don't cause drop outs, even when they have much higher total CPU load.

I can fix the problem by changing the power plan settings. By setting the minimum CPU limit to 100% instead of 5%, the first thread drops to about 60% (without load balancing) and the drop outs no longer happen (with or without balancing).

However, I wonder about three things:
1. Why are there drop outs for that particular project, but not for others with even higher CPU load?
2. Why doesn't load balancing help to avoid the drop outs? According to Performance module, no single thread is overly loaded, but nonetheless the audio engine stops. Could this be a bug that Sonar detects possible overload without considering if load balancing is active?
3. Why is Sonar not able to ensure that the CPU provides enough power, if it is there in principle, but reduced by power management?
#1

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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/02 10:56:44 (permalink)
    You might consider altering the value of a Sonar parameter in Edit>Preferences>Audio>Configuration File, called ThreadSchedulingModel, to a value of 2, which helps with the distribution of things across multiple CPU cores.
     
    Additionally, if you load up large numbers of instruments in multi-timbral synths like Kontakt, into a single instance, Sonar won't be able to split that work up.  Noel has commented on this in the past, and has suggested that CPU work is better distributed by instead keeping any one Kontakt instance loaded with a smaller number of instruments and using multiple Kontakt instances to house the needed instruments.  (I generally keep any single instance of Kontakt down to no more than 5-6 instruments, and just use multiple instances).
     
    Hope any of the above helps you, 
     
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    #2
    ralf
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/02 11:39:18 (permalink)
    Thanks for your help.

    Using ThreadSchedulingModel 2 gives a better distribution between threads in Performance module when balancing is off (looks similar to balancing on then), but doesn't prevent the drop outs.

    I tried to disable each single instrument plugin (and several effects), none of it made a change. There is one Kontakt instance with 2 instruments, in other projects I have several Kontakt instances with up to 4 instruments.

    The odd thing is that I have drop outs due to CPU load, but all threads in Permformance module are below 50%.
    #3
    scook
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/02 14:04:25 (permalink)
    Dropouts usually have a TOAST message popup with a link to the help for resolution. The help suggests a few settings to adjust http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Troubleshooting.23.html
     
    #4
    ralf
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/02 14:41:09 (permalink)
    I tried all those suggestions. But the problem is definitely CPU load, and this is not addressed. My main concern is that I get drop outs from CPU load, but neither CPU total nor single threads seem to be overloaded. Hence, I wonder if there is something wrong with load balancing.
    #5
    brundlefly
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/02 14:57:03 (permalink)
    I don't think Windows Power Management is capable of responding properly to the rapid real-time changes in load that a DAW can generate. It's generally recommended to disable all CPU-throttling in a DAW. This means disabling Speedstep, C-States and Turboboost in BIOS, and setting Windows Power Management to High Performance.
     
    You should also run LatencyMon, and make sure you aren't getting spikes in Deferred Procedure Call latency.
     
         http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
     
     
     

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    #6
    ralf
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 01:27:49 (permalink)
    Admittedly, optimizing Windows for high performance is much recommended when running a DAW. I mainly wondered why I never had any problems like this before, and why load balancing didn't help, when without load balancing, the problem was obviously caused by the first thread going into red (approaching 100% load).
    #7
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 06:54:36 (permalink)
    Ralph, Anything different about this project than any of your others ?
    Settings, plug ins, exc ? I know you have probably already gone through all this already but I would look for differences between projects and if I could not find any, start a new project and drag the data in to it.
    Re- create the whole project again and see if you still have the same issue. if you don't, then its possible something became corrupt in the project itself. Good luck buddy

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    #8
    ralf
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 09:40:20 (permalink)
    I guess it's the combination of VST-plugins. If I disable enough plugins, the load is low enough to prevent drop outs. But no particular plugin seems to be the one that makes the difference.
     
    I think I will have to live with changing the power settings when working with that particular project. (I don't want to have them permanently high.)
    #9
    bitflipper
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 10:21:09 (permalink)
    Check out this free utility called Full Throttle, which lets you override your system power plan for specific applications. The only catch is that you must run the application as Administrator in order to grant it permissions for changing power settings.


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    #10
    Anderton
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 10:51:11 (permalink)
    Also try turning off load balancing. It's not always needed; refer to the documentation about when using it indicated and when it's not.

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    #11
    35mm
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 12:13:24 (permalink)
    I have had the same problem since I updated to Splat the other day. It only effects one project which is mostly audio but uses prochannel modules on several tracks. The first thread is maxing and the others are fairly high. Getting lots of pops, clicks, dropouts and crashes - running slow and unstable.
     
    A new project I am working on now uses more plugins but no prochannels and the threads are all at minimum and it's all nice and astable. I was thinking this may be prochannel related because I haven't tended to use prochannel much  before and I haven't encountered this problem before.
    #12
    ralf
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 12:41:06 (permalink)
    bitflipper: Thanks for the link, this tool looks just like what I need for power management.
    Anderton: Without load balancing, the first thread goes into red and then I have drop outs. With balancing, all threads stay rather low, but the drop outs happen nonetheless. So, at least it looks better with balancing ;)
    35mm: On my last computer, I also had the problem of pops and clicks when CPU load became too high. If all threads go high, you probably have to reduce the number of effects. Or find plugins with high CPU load and replace them by similar with less power consumption.
    #13
    microapp
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 19:40:52 (permalink)
    Load balancing in certain cases can actually increase the overall CPU load.
    You don't mention your setup.
    Do the dropouts go away if you disable the FX ? (the 'E' key toggles the FX on/off).
    Are you using any LP plugs? (linear phase).
    Try increasing your audio buffer size.
    You could also try running Latency Monitor (free)  http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
    This may show something in your system is taking up too much CPU time (e.g. wifi, video, disk, etc.).
    Even with a fast system, if something like the video driver is taking too much time, the CPU cannot keep the output buffer full so you get a dropout.
    Increasing the buffer size allows the CPU more time to fill the buffer so it reduces the required load on the system but also increases the audio latency. Some projects may need a larger buffer.

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    #14
    ralf
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 22:38:53 (permalink)
    The overall CPU load of the project is 20%, so it's far from a general overload. I have drop outs with and without load balancing. Without balancing, the first thread in the Performance module sometimes goes to red indicating an overload. With balancing, all threads stay nicely below 50%. Hence, my main concern is, why load ballancing doesn't help against the drop outs.
     
    My audio buffer is at maximum of 10ms, it's not possible to increase it further in ASIO mode. In other modes, I have to increase it way beyond 50ms, which is impractical to work with.
     
    As I mentioned, the problem is caused by the overall plugin load, so yes, turning off all FX reduces the load enough to prevent drop outs. Even turning off rather few plugins helps to keep the load below the critical point.
     
    The main problem with the project seems to be that it requires CPU power in an irregular (meaning not enough constant) manner. So, power management reduces CPU frequency and can't catch up quick enough, when more power is needed. Hence, increasing minimum CPU frequency solves the problem.
    #15
    bitman
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/07 22:59:07 (permalink)
    Turn that pc to 11, and be happy.
     
    #16
    JonD
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    Re: Audio Drop Outs and CPU Load (possible bug) 2017/01/08 11:48:43 (permalink)
    ralf
    I guess it's the combination of VST-plugins. If I disable enough plugins, the load is low enough to prevent drop outs. But no particular plugin seems to be the one that makes the difference....



    Any linear-phase plugins? 
     
    Also, disable 64-bit double precision if enabled.

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