Helpful ReplyAudio issues with Sonar

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jonel
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2018/11/24 09:35:14 (permalink)

Audio issues with Sonar

Hi All,
   I have been using Sonar since version 8 and currently using X3. I had a recurrent issue with audio that I couldn't seem to pin down. I would use Sonar for a complete session using the FocusRite NIO 2 | 4 with its drivers and everything worked fine. When I would come back to another session I could not get any audio and had to mess about changing the the driver to ASIO4ALL and then somehow it would work and stay working. But another time I would have to swap this again to yes another driver (FL Studio) and perhaps back to Novation. In fact I gave up Sonar at Sonar X3 and moved to Ableton and that solved the issue for me.
 
However, I recently wanted to use the staff feature in Sonar which is not available in Ableton and then I realised, again, how good Sonar is (when it is working). I think I had forgotten why I had dumped Sonar in the first place but, bang, there it was, back again. I knew what to do but I wondered if it is really just my fault here, or does anyone else suffer from this problem.
 
Thanks
 
Jonel
 
#1
Kamikaze
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/24 09:42:17 (permalink)
Have you considered trying Cakewalk instead?

 
#2
Leadfoot
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/24 14:19:56 (permalink)
Have you got the latest drivers for your interface?
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jonel
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/24 14:55:39 (permalink)
Yes, I do have all the latest drivers. But it would seem this is a problem with my own setup so I will look to try and solve that,
 
Thanks though
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scook
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/24 15:18:10 (permalink)
If the same audio interface is used for Windows and SONAR make sure the sample rate is the same in Windows and SONAR.
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Steev
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/24 19:50:05 (permalink)
Wowzer, the Focusrite NIO 2 | 4 is an ancient piece of audio interface, as is SONAR X3.. Sorry to say, there is really no such thing as a great vintage piece of digital audio gear, and computer software such as DAWs and choice FX plugins and instruments mature to greatness with upgrades not age.
 
Shutting down one DAW and starting a different DAW without a fresh system boot for comparison tests can cause problems. They all handle audio very differently and may leave some configuration settings behind in system RAM memory that can weird out the path to your audio interface.
 Things can get very weird and unstable with a Focusrite shutting down Cakewalk and opening Pro Tools, as they use two very different drivers, and if memory serves me right, shutting down Ableton Life and opening Cakewalk is a crap shoot, especially if SONAR is set to use it's built in x64 sound engine that runs natively within SONAR on a x32 system.
 
My studio Rule #1 is NEVER, EVER, EVER use any audio interface drivers except those specifically designed for it by the manufacturer.
My studio Rule #2 is NEVER, EVER, EVER fall too far behind in upgrading no matter how tight your finances are, because it will not only get bone chillingly prohibitively expensive to upgrade everything at once, once eminent failure occurs, your learning curve will only get that much more bone chillingly prohibitively much difficult. 
 
 Unfortunately Focusrite most likely stopped supporting the NIO 2 | 4 around the time when Cakewalk stopped support for SONAR X3, which would be around a decade ago. In relative terms of computer technology, decades=millennia.
  Today Focusite's technology progress has matured the NIO 2 | 4 into what is now known as the Scarlett 2i4 gen 2. Not only is it the world's most popular and reliable USB audio interface, the Scarlett series are the world's fastest USB Audio interfaces supporting the lowest latency for the extremely reasonable low, low price of around $150 (us).
 EXTREMELY reasonable considering Focusrite bundles several hundreds of dollars of excellent high quality FX plugins, VSTi instruments through their on going "Plugin Collective" program which would cost you several times more than the interface itself if you purchased them through the 3rd party vendors Focusrite partners with.
 Vendors like Soft Tubes, Eventide, XLN Audio that have cut a great and well earned reputation in the world of professional world class recording.
  Opinions excluded, these vendors ALL very arguably offer up to "The Best There Is."
 Oh and you also get licensed for Ableton Live Lite (I'm not really a fan of Ableton anything), and licensing for Pro Tools First which I find myself to be objectively shockingly impressed with. It's essentially a 16 track version of Pro Tools 12 and comes with a very nice plugin bundle, all downloadable from AVID.
 MORE than enough ultra cool Pro Tools to get you hooked into being financially strapped to AVID for LIFE! LoL
 And that's why I pretty much why abandoned and orphaned my Mac Pro Tools rig for my now fossilized Windows 2000/SONAR X3 Producer workstation. May it rest in peace, it was a great friend and I will always look back in nostalgia and sincere fondness for it.
 
OK the rest is a rant, and not intended reading material for anyone easily offended and or lacks a sense of humor.
 Please stop reading now...
 
 And that being said; my beloved Windows 2000/SONAR X3 Producer workstation was without a doubt awesome and inspiring back in the day, but today it compares as a hammer, a screwdriver, and a pair of plyers in my tool box to my current Windows 10 Pro/Cakewalk by Bandlab workstation which has matured into a full blown Multi-track "Recording" studio, "Mixing" studio, "Mastering", "Video Editing" studio fully capable and really to render to any known audio and video formats including professional grade "Red Book CD, HD DVD, and 4K Blueray disc master Surround Sound authoring, and researching and preparing for the 3D sound 8K video world of Virtual Reality. Not because I want to, because that's where we're headed to.
 And soon I will be retiring this aging killer arse AMD FX 8350 based 8 core custom built workstation.
 Most likely within the year, and replacing it with a new AMD Rysen 7 based 8 core system I'm currently researching bench test results, configuring specifically for DCC (digital content creation) as opposed to gaming (slaying enemies and stealing cars without motion blur has never been my thing), and just generally preparing to build a workstation that will serve me right with the least amount of problems for the next 6 to 8 years as this one has and currently continues to do with the proper periodic preventive maintenance.
 Ya know, little things like running a system maintenance program like "PC Matic" to keep Windows and registry healthy, blowing the dust out of the case every month or so is a good idea, cloning and swapping out hard drives every 3 to 5 years or so is a great idea to keep your work files alive, well, and where you expect the to be
 I've always had much greater success, performance, and stability with AMD than I ever had with Intel i7 based systems, and at a fraction of the costs, it makes little to no sense to assume Intel is better because of hype, name recognition and inflated costs.
 And having a solid 37+ years or so in the music business with a deep desire to at least TRY not to make the same mistakes over and over again (yeah good luck with that, I've only achieved moderate success with that annoying human condition) but having a working knowledge and understanding of the processes, paths, steps, and services to use for promotion and distribution helps. 
 And sooo, even though my ancient Windows 2000/SONAR X3 Producer workstation still works as good as the day I retired it, I can't even GIVE IT AWAY! Both Catholic Charities and Salvation Army have already convinced me with pure logic the giving poor people a free computer with anything older than Window 7 on it is no act of kindness, especially if it's not even an x64 version of Win 7. Support for x32 is rapidly going, going, gone.
 
 And even I don't bother firing up the SONAR X3 Producer workstation anymore,  because this current soon to be retired workstation is still an over powered box of tools that has many kinds of hammers, full sets of screwdrivers, many types of plyers, wrenches, ratchets, and POWER TOOLS that perform their duties measured in milli seconds, as opposed to minutes, and minutes as opposed to hours it's virtual SnapOn warehouse full of high quality tools that I have practiced and experienced a deep understanding of what they are and how to use them effectively over the years.  Which in the end result, hasn't really cost me one red cent. All my out of pocket expenses have come back in spades, well into the profit margin..
 And that all happened not because I'm a rock star genius, it all happen primarily because I fully realize the natural laws of the physics of cause, effect, and consequence is always equal to the natural laws of balancing positive and negative energies. 
 And THAT's why I never quit my day job just because I fell blindly into the luck of snatching up a couple of 4 digit dollar payouts by submitting tunes for TV or movie sound tracks.
 And while it's really nice when it happens, there are no guarantees it will keep happening, only guarantees that guarantee it WON'T happen if you don't TRY to finish what you start, than submit your music submissions before dead line.
 
Recording sessions, clients actually recording in my studio are so infrequent has also dried up to now officially being considered a thing of the past. Now that technology has come to the point where anyone can make their own music at home, whether they are musicians or not, they can become some rather stiff competition for even the most accomplished musicians and artists simply learning how to use Ableton Live. Pick up the A L Push and all of a suddenly you become Diplo, Grand Master Beat Master, King or Queen of never ending Dance Hall or you can whip out 30 to 40 Hip Hop master class backing tracks a day if the muse strikes and spit all over them until you drop or run out of things to say.
 But that's not offends me about using Ableton Live, not at all, in fact I think it's some amazing mind blowing technology. As a musician and composer, Ableton Live offends me because it makes too many decisions for me that I prefer to make for myself and that throws me off course. But Cakewalk doesn't, and I pretty much mastered that DAW by SONAR Producer 4, and kept on growing and expanding with it till present day
 And so it's all OK by me, because DAWs like Garageband, Ableton Live keeps my "Mixing" and "Mastering" sessions end of the business alive.
 Some artists, while perfectly happy and inspired to create music by them selves in the comfort of their own homes or even in chaotic atmospheres of dive bars, saloons, night clubs, cafe's, or where ever still have an appreciation of the value of representing themselves with well produced and designed merchandise.
I can still make a few dollars from applying a professional mix and mastering sheen, and also make a few dollars more by offering clients a 100 retail ready CD package shipped right to their door within 2 weeks, and for an extra nominal charge, include 100 pretty, impressive, and colorful barcode scannable download cards with their mug shot(s) on them.
 Yeah I know, why bother, everybody knows CDs are out digital streaming is in.
 Except on a local level, a CD makes for one hell of a calling card that exponentially increases your fan base, while providing you with a very easy no brainer 200% to 400% CASH return on your investment.
 Download cards, and streaming services not so much, however still an important part of your promotion and revenue.
 Keep in mind while iTunes indeed pays out the highest streaming rate for indie artists, they also take out 49% for all downloadable sales, then there is credit card or PayPal fees, never mind taxes, blah, blah, blah, and pretty soon you just might come to realize that you may be the lowest paid partner in your own enterprise, and need to get famous enough to sell 10's of millions of downloads and streams before you can afford quit your day job.
 But DON'T! It's possible to sell 10's of millions of downloads if you put enough effort into it, and if everything goes right, but doubtful that everything will go right. But even if it does, it's not really sustainable, and extremely tiring to sustain the level of effort it takes to do so for too long..
 
 
 I also build custom workstations for very reasonable prices, and offer one year of premium personalized tech support.
 I do not build slopped together Procrastination Stations built from spare parts, or everything must go sales at big box discount centers.
 
 Has anyone here figured out yet why all Apple computers "Just Work" and all those  Windows computers that you purchased used and assembled by a guy named Boot from Craig's List get weird on you when you try to record?
Or maybe a too good to refuse deal with a price too low to mention at a bargain basement big box discount center may all too soon make you want to punch your mother in the mouth for giving birth to you?
Seriously, that's not Cakewalk's or any DAWs fault.
 At least Bandlab had to foresight and wisdom to drop support for x32 systems all together. 
 
making music is my catharsis.
 
 

Steev on Bandlab.com
 
Custom built workstation. Windows 10 Pro x64.
 
SONAR Platinum. Cakewalk by Bandlab.
Sony Sound Forge Pro 10, ACID Pro 7, Vegas Pro 11
Pro Tools.
 
ASRock 990FX mobo, AMD FX 8370 8-Core. 16 gb DDR3 PC1866 G Skill Ripjaws X RAM. AMD FirePro V4900 1gb DDR5 accelerated graphics card. 
Behringer X Touch DAW Controller
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen 2, OctoPre Mkll
Western Digital 500GB SSD bootdrive,  WD 500GB 10k rpm VelociRaptor for DAW projects . 2x1 TB WD Caviar Black SATA3 storage drives
 
#6
Kev999
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/25 06:40:08 (permalink)
Steev
...around the time when Cakewalk stopped support for SONAR X3, which would be around a decade ago...

 
Maybe it seems like a decade, but it is actually less than 4 years since Sonar X3 was discontinued.

SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
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Having fun at work lately
#7
Cactus Music
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/25 07:42:58 (permalink)
And further more----

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#8
robert_e_bone
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/25 16:26:16 (permalink)
jonel
Hi All,
   I have been using Sonar since version 8 and currently using X3. I had a recurrent issue with audio that I couldn't seem to pin down. I would use Sonar for a complete session using the FocusRite NIO 2 | 4 with its drivers and everything worked fine. When I would come back to another session I could not get any audio and had to mess about changing the the driver to ASIO4ALL and then somehow it would work and stay working. But another time I would have to swap this again to yes another driver (FL Studio) and perhaps back to Novation. In fact I gave up Sonar at Sonar X3 and moved to Ableton and that solved the issue for me.
 
However, I recently wanted to use the staff feature in Sonar which is not available in Ableton and then I realised, again, how good Sonar is (when it is working). I think I had forgotten why I had dumped Sonar in the first place but, bang, there it was, back again. I knew what to do but I wondered if it is really just my fault here, or does anyone else suffer from this problem.
 
Thanks
 
Jonel
 




For whatever the worth, this audio issue certainly seems to be local to your system, as that kind of issue was never widely reported, to the best of my recollection.
 
In addition, LOTS of folks have had various issues with ASIO4ALL - many times just having it installed, let alone using it (although to be fair, lots of folks also have/had used it successfully - it just is a bit of a crap shoot with it).
 
I just saw yesterday, where Sweetwater is offering the Yamaha/Steinberg UR-22 audio interface for $49.  While it only has a couple of mic/line inputs, it does work well, I have it running at the moment on my current production desktop with Windows 10 - never an issue whatsoever (I need to make some room for my Presonus audio interface and the expansion unit, but in the meantime, the UR-22 works like a champ).  You might consider picking up one of these UR-22 interfaces - they just work.
 
You might want to make sure Windows and Sonar aren't both competing for the same ASIO driver, as that can be problematic.  I always keep my Windows output set to the native Windows audio drivers, or use the HDMI ones for my HDTV that is used as a display monitor, and that way only Sonar ever uses the ASIO drivers for whatever audio interface I happen to have plugged in for a given Sonar session.
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#9
JonD
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/25 17:24:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby lapasoa 2018/11/25 17:55:38
robert_e_bone
 
I just saw yesterday, where Sweetwater is offering the Yamaha/Steinberg UR-22 audio interface for $49...



It's not there at this price today.  The current sale price is $99.99 (The mentioned $50 discount has already been applied to the sale price).
 
The smaller UR12 is priced at $49.99.

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#10
robert_e_bone
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/25 20:13:30 (permalink)
Whoops!  MY bad - when I was looking at that interface I was in the middle of fighting with the new kitten over who exactly was going to get that slice of pizza.
 
I don't have any knowledge of the $49 one, but I HIGHLY recommend the UR22, even at $99, is a good deal and rock-solid. I have had precisely ZERO issues with mine.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#11
Steev
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Re: Audio issues with Sonar 2018/11/30 17:45:58 (permalink)
Kev999
Steev
...around the time when Cakewalk stopped support for SONAR X3, which would be around a decade ago...

 
Maybe it seems like a decade, but it is actually less than 4 years since Sonar X3 was discontinued.


Opps, my bad, in my mind eye I was seeing and referring to SONAR 3 Producer.. Duh..
 I really hated the Skylight GUI changes introduced with X1, and continued to upgrade, but stayed with using 8.5 PE as my main working whip.
 I actually didn't feel comfortable enough to work in X1PE with all the different keystrokes, I felt like they turned SONAR into a turd and me into a stranger in a strange land hitting a no brainer keystroke and if I was lucky, NOTHING would happen that would push a recording session into a tail spin!
A LIVID stranger in a strange land that couldn't keep recordings session on my typical rapid pace course with one of my favorite clients getting annoyed and barking "I'M READDY WHEN YOU ARE STEVE!".
 After changing the keystrokes back in X2, PE I started practicing a bit more with it as time allowed, but still annoyed with the changes and Cakewalk forcing me to relearn how to drive my favorite DAW that I was so intimately familiar with.
 I was really eyeballing other DAWs, I found some similar, but couldn't find anything I thought had features equal to, better, or came close to rivaling 8.5 PE.
 And than X3 came out and some new and very powerful ProChannel plugin modules could be added for a very reasonable bundled introduction fee, the big BANG epiphany hit me like a drunk driver, I finally GOT IT, I was awestruck, I fell in love and shut down 8.5 which by then made me feel like working with on hand tied behind my back.
 
Yes, it all seems like a decade ago with so many upgrades and updates ago, but nothing radical, they just added more choices, goodness, and flavors as time went on.
 With many great 3rd party plugins added along the way, which I'm honestly and seriously thankful for having the wisdom to keep upgrading SONAR for.
 
 And so should everyone here should be grateful for Bandlab's most generous offer of a free upgrade to a current version of Cakewalk by Bandlab. The only real radical differences in CbB from X3 is the killer performance and functional differences supported by newer technologies like VST3 and ARA (Audio Random Access).
And also a MUCH better and improved MIDI piano roll editor, Lasso and zoom editing, individual Take and Envelope lanes per channel are less obvious but very nice tools and improvements you may not even notice or realize are there.
 Like better support for the newer Windows OS and Audio Drivers which will eventually kill SONAR X3 OFF, as in DEAD. And that always happens sooner than we would think
 Want to experience a train wreck? Try installing SONAR 3 PE on a modern Window 10 computer.
 I have no idea if v8.5 would respond any better.
Last I used it I was running it on an AMD Phenom 4 core unlocked Black Edition which is currently a dinosaur by today's standards, but it was so fast it was faster than Windows XP and SONAR 8.5 could handle when it Turbo Boosted past 4 g/Hz at the wrong moment things became very unstable and dangerous.
 It was indeed very impressive to see 8.5 load up in the blink on an eye, and amazing at how fast it would load projects running several audio tracks along with instances of Dimension Pro, Rapture, and Session Drummer. Amazing to see how low CPU usage meter was running, and if it spiked as it often commonly did with 8.5 with any CPU, the Phenom would crash and lock up SONAR so tight, It would force a Kamikaze Shutdown to get the computer and SONAR up and running again, and resulting in fatal damage to the project.
 Totally system meltdown finally occurred due to the Phenom's ability to shut down XP faster than it could save the system Boot Records.
 And so I learned that maybe overclocking is a bad idea for a musical powerhouse workstation. May OK for gaming, but DAWs are not games.
 I also learned to keep software and hardware equally as current, and never fall too far behind in either respect.
 
 And that were we are at today with running X3 even without considering the Neo 2 I 4's ancient state of being.
 I would easily consider you to be skating on very thin ice if you are running Windows 10, hence X3's inability to recognize WASAPI drivers which are at the core of Win 10's new sound engine, and something even standalone ASIO drivers have to cope with.
 Modern computers also have much fast CPU's that stream in more lanes, increased Buss and memory speeds, patch updates issued by Microsoft, Intel, and AMD to ward off system exploitation from hackers all have an effect on system performance, and can have serious implications for any unsupported and outdated software and hardware.
 Ever hear of the "Meltdown Exploit"? well if you have any Intel CPU or an older AMD CPU, than the "Meltdown Exploit" has heard of you and your computer's kernel streaming processes, and if you have has been hooked to the Internet in the past year, well than it's trying to break in and exploit kernel streaming
but don't worry, it's only "potentially" harmful in it's current state, because until some software or hardware installed in your system shakes hands and lets Meltdown in, it will forever continue to cycle from CPU thru the chipset buss searching for an open door and continuously be rejected.
 Several patch updates have been issued to slow it down by Intel, but at the cost of slowing down kernel streaming which has a mild effect of slowing down your entire computer system. BUT for all of Intel's gracious efforts, they can't do it alone, it will take other patch updates from software and hardware vendors to stop Meltdown completely.
Not a big deal or even a very noticeable for modern multi-core/multi-streaming systems with very fast FSB (buss speeds), but the older the system and hardware components.
 
 Exploits, not to be mistaken for viruses, aren't noticed or detected by virus scans.
 But hackers know what they are and they know they are there, and so it's only a matter of time before they figure out how to use them effectively.
 
 And this is one of the reasons why Windows itself stops supporting hardware devices so old their vendors stopped supporting drivers for.
 Windows for security reasons, and the vendors would go out of business if their customers only purchased stuff from them every 10 years or so, and have to offer a lifetime of free support and patch updates on top of that.
 NOT going to happen!
 
 

Steev on Bandlab.com
 
Custom built workstation. Windows 10 Pro x64.
 
SONAR Platinum. Cakewalk by Bandlab.
Sony Sound Forge Pro 10, ACID Pro 7, Vegas Pro 11
Pro Tools.
 
ASRock 990FX mobo, AMD FX 8370 8-Core. 16 gb DDR3 PC1866 G Skill Ripjaws X RAM. AMD FirePro V4900 1gb DDR5 accelerated graphics card. 
Behringer X Touch DAW Controller
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen 2, OctoPre Mkll
Western Digital 500GB SSD bootdrive,  WD 500GB 10k rpm VelociRaptor for DAW projects . 2x1 TB WD Caviar Black SATA3 storage drives
 
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