Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro.

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jackroller
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2016/06/14 23:01:21 (permalink)

Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro.

I just upgraded to Rapture Pro and I'm getting pretty bad audio pops and crackling with some of the more complex sounds.  I have MMCSS enabled in Sonar, and my CPU isn't even close to spiking.  I also tried changing the 32-bit to 16-bit switch on the element pages, but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Is there a low quality mode like in Z3ta+2?

Increasing the audio buffer size to a ridiculously high level (from 64 to 192!!) seems to fix the problem, but I don't understand how that's going to work if I have a project where I'm using Rapture Pro and recording audio without causing latency issues.  

Is there a common way of dealing with this sort of thing that I'm not experienced with?  I'm guessing the answer is going to be to turn up the buffer, freeze the track, and then turn the buffer back down when recording - but that doesn't seem quite right.

Sorry if this is more of a Sonar question than a Rapture Pro question.

MOTU 896mk3
Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    promidi
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 03:45:16 (permalink)
    What sample rate are you projects set to.  Are you using the latest drivers for your MOTU 896mk3 (Which is v4.0.6.6814 for audio and v4.0.5.7483 for the MIDI)

    Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
    PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
    CPU: i5 4670. 
    Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
    Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

    Internet always on.

    Software
    : Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
    ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
    Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
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    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 09:48:44 (permalink)
    Sample rate is set to 44.1kHz.  (24-bit, with x64 double precision active)  I just downloaded and reinstalled the latest drivers for my 896mk3 and I'm still getting crazy pops and cracks - though it's mostly with Atmospheric sounds.

    If anyone from CW is reading this:  To say this is a dealbreaker would be an understatement.  I have no problems running much more complex synths with extreme unison settings (Serum anyone?). So far I'm very disappointed with RPro, even if it was only $40 to upgrade.
    post edited by jackroller - 2016/06/15 12:53:03

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 12:52:58 (permalink)
    Sorry about the sharpness on that last post guys, that was pre-coffee this morning.  For clarification, my other plugins (BFD3, z3ta+2, Serum, Guitar Rig 5, Trilian) all work perfectly with the lowest buffer setting my interface allows (64).  Typically there are zero audio glitches until I spike my CPU out using polyphony or a big unison sound.    

    I'm stumped as to why RPro doesn't want to play nice at the same buffer settings.  I tried the same sounds out in RSession and got the same results.   It seems like it's not every  patch that's causing the problems either.  Like I mentioned this morning, the Atmospheric sounds are the main culprits.  Specifically, Atmospheric>Liquid Orchestra 1 does it every time I change a chord.  That particular patch seems to be the most problematic.

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 13:30:42 (permalink)
    Pressing one core can cause the issue. Lots of rapture pro things run on a single core.

    Holding notes tends to push the core harder.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #5
    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 14:30:10 (permalink)
    That's just the thing, it's not maxing out the core at all.  It's not even close.  It happens most on the attack of the notes whenever I'm playing chords and I switch, not just during sustained parts.  It's an extra random pop and it's only happening with RPro.  

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    promidi
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 19:52:01 (permalink)
    Here is something to try.  Now I know this is not a total solution, but at least this way you can save the change in the Rapture Pro patch itself.

    There have been times I have encountered slight crackling in some Rapture Pro patches.  What I do there is modify the offending patch to slightly increase (can be very tiny - experiment for best value) the attack of the element's AMP ENV GEN for that patch.  If it's mostly atmospheric patches than the attack required to mitigate the crackling should not even be noticeable to the overall sound.

    Once you have made the slight change, you can overwrite the original patch or save it as a new one.  Also, the change to the attack can be easily reversed.

    Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
    PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
    CPU: i5 4670. 
    Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
    Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

    Internet always on.

    Software
    : Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
    ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
    Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
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    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 20:27:24 (permalink)
     Thanks.  I had already tried that particular trick, but its just not working.  So far only increasing the audio buffer seems to make any difference.

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    promidi
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 20:51:23 (permalink)
    You must be having a strange issue that other people are not having.  Just to confirm, what version and build number of Rapture Pro do you have.  Found by double clicking on the words "RAPTURE PRO" at the top right.  Mine is 2.00.4.25. 

    I suspect you would have the latest however, as you say you just upgraded to it...

    Others may offer other solutions - like disabling your WIFI i/f, disabling your onboard audio., if you have an nVidia card, disabling your HD audio that's on this card.  Making sure your audio interface is plugged in via port on the PC, not a hub, etc

    Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
    PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
    CPU: i5 4670. 
    Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
    Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

    Internet always on.

    Software
    : Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
    ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
    Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
    #9
    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/15 21:13:08 (permalink)
    2.00.4.25  -  I've even reinstalled Rapture Pro just to make sure.  All audio devices are disabled. and I don't have wifi.  Interface is connected straight to the pc.
     
    I've used every trick I know and still can't figure out how to make it work with my normal buffer settings.

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/19 10:37:26 (permalink)
    You could try increasing a couple of buffers within Sonar, that they for some reason changed their initial default sizes to some time ago.  Sometimes, folks resolve sound issues by doing the following:
     
    1) Launch Sonar - do not open a project, just close the Start Screen when it opens with Sonar.
    2) Hit the letter 'P' on your computer keyboard to enter Sonar's Preferences dialog box
    3) Click on 'Sync and Caching (this is under the Audio tab)
    4) Increase the File System's: Playback I/O Buffer Size (KB) to 512 
    5) Also increase the File System's Record I/O Buffer Size (KB) to 512
    6) Click Apply and close Preferences
    7) I don't know that you have to - but you might consider restarting Sonar, to get those larger buffers.
    8) Try out something and see if it works better
     
    I run with these 2 buffers set to 512, and some folks even use larger ones than that.  I also record at: 24-bit bit depth, 48 K for Sample rate, with an ASIO Buffer Size set to 128.  My Total Round Trip Latency, as reported by Sonar, is around 10 milliseconds.
     
    I am running on about 15 minutes of sleep, so I HAVE to go lie down, but I will circle back to this thread once I get some sleep, and hopefully some other folks will help get you sorted out.
     
    Also, make sure for these tests - don't load up a bunch of effects into the open project, as one or more added effects could require higher latency to work properly (not all effects plugins are meant to be used while recording - because they can add loads of latency to do their thing.  Things like 'Look Ahead Processing' indicate that the plugin needs to read data ahead of where it is currently at in the Now Time Marker, and that adds loads of latency, which is FINE when you have jacked up the ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048 for mixing).
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/19 11:05:15 (permalink)
    Thanks Bob.  I tried changing the Record and Playback I/O buffers as you suggested, but it didn't seem to make a difference even at the max of 2048.  I also tried experimenting with different combinations of sample rates and buffer sizes, but nothing below 192 gives me clear sound with no pops (regardless of whether I'm at 44.1kHz or 48kHz).  At that setting my total roundtrip latency is 14.8 msec at 44.1kHz, and 13.6 msec at 48kHz. 
     
    My normal buffer setting of 64 does the total roundtrip in under 6 msec, and everything works fine.  RPro just doesn't want to cooperate.         
    post edited by jackroller - 2016/06/19 11:29:01

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/19 12:23:17 (permalink)
    Have you run resplendant's latency monitor on your PC? It's a free tool.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #13
    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/19 13:03:28 (permalink)
    Latency Monitor says my system "appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts."

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/20 13:37:17 (permalink)
    I know that the original Dimension Pro and Rapture both responded to hot keys that would adjust their sample rates internally.
     
    I wonder if this is also try for Rapture Pro - where there may be a way there to also adjust sample rate used by Rapture Pro.
     
    It has been so long since I looked at the hot keys to control this that I forgot which keys are for which sample rates.  I think they were something like micro host keys or something like that.
     
    If nobody else jumps in with that info, I will be back online in a couple hours and will look to see if I can find the info.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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    scook
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/20 13:48:28 (permalink)
    The stand alone mode is documented in the RPro user guide. The keyboard shortcuts for the stand alone mode start on page 138.
    #16
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/20 19:53:02 (permalink)
    These are the ones I saved off for Dimension Pro and the original Rapture.  I think they are the same for Rapture Pro.  I cannot recall.  I remember I set the Sample Rate for all 3 programs running them one at a time in stand-alone mode and then hitting the key to set the sample rate per my desires - which for ME was F4 to set Sample Rate to 48000.  I do not recall if these programs play their samples back in Sonar using the sample rate set in stand-alone mode or not:
     
    ESC: All Notes Off
    F1/F2: Open/Close z3ta+ Editor (mainly for testing purposes)
    F3: Set to 44100
    F4: Set to 48000
    Shift+F3: Set to 88200
    Shift+F4: Set to 96000
    F5: Transpose -12
    F6: Transpose -1
    F7: Transpose +1
    F8: Transpose +12
    F11/F12: Previous/Next Program
    Left/Right arrows: Bend down/up
    Up arrow: CC1
    Down arrow: CC2
    Space bar: Aftertouch
     
    (MIDI) Notes:
    ZSXDCVGBHNJM,L.;/Q2W3E4RT6Y7UI9O0P-[
     
    Anyways - Hope the above helps.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #17
    scook
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/20 20:52:04 (permalink)
    The stand alone settings do not affect the plug-ins when hosted in a DAW.
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    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/20 22:47:19 (permalink)
    Have you tried Asio?

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #19
    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 07:20:13 (permalink)
    gswitz
    Have you tried Asio?


    Yes.



    Thanks for the input guys, it's very appreciated but I'm not sure where to go from here.  The DPro and Rapture legacy libraries work fine with no audio pops or crackling.  It's only the RPro library that is causing the audio problems, and I've found that it also has several broken patches with missing multisamples.  I'm not sure if the patch problem is related to the audio issue, but it might be worth mentioning.

    It doesn't make sense that I would have audio problems with one library and not the others.
    post edited by jackroller - 2016/06/21 07:52:12

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 10:59:21 (permalink)
    Me either. Galbanum uses more cpu for me. Could you post exact steps that I could use to reproduce? A midi file? Does it only happen on record or also on playback? Are the samples installed on the same drives? Are you maybe having memory or IO issues?

    Have you contacted support?

    Do you have a gpu?
    post edited by gswitz - 2016/06/21 11:21:41

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #21
    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 12:02:51 (permalink)
    I haven't yet contacted support because I was certain that this was a simple settings error on my part, or some easy fix.  The ONLY other thing I can possibly think of is hard drive latency.  All of my Cakewalk files are installed into the default C: drive locations, but I'm using a Samsung 850 Evo 250GB SSD.  That should be fast enough to handle a single instance of RPro, right?
     
    GPU is an EVGA brand GTX980ti.  
     
    It happens on MIDI playback and live input with my Akai MPK61.  When I record audio, the pops happen during the recording, but are not present when I listen to the audio.

    Steps to reproduce would be load RPro into a simple instrument track using the Atmospheric>Liquid Orchestra 1 patch.  Play some 3 and 4 note chords.  The popping sound is happening right when I change chords, at what I would assume is the instant that the sample is being reloaded.
     

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
    #22
    scook
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 12:10:35 (permalink)
    All samples are loaded into memory with the program in all Cakewalk sfz based synths. The synths do not rely on streaming audio samples.
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    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 12:12:10 (permalink)
    Well there went that idea.  :)  Thanks Scook!

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
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    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 19:41:53 (permalink)
    That particular patch has 6 elements each with 72 voices.
     
    This means that they may stack and overlap and press your processor (back me up someone?).
     
    http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20160621_Test.wav
     
    I tried playing at 48 kHz and 96, 256 and 512 with that patch...
    Atmospheric>Liquid Orchestra 1
    That patch has 6 elements each with 72 voices.
     
    I could get above the patch's ability to fit under my processor ceiling even at 512.
     
    The hold pedal mattered a lot. Laying off the hold pedal I was able to play most things.
     
    Once on the hold pedal I was able to glitch it.
     
    Even just a harsh attack on the guitar I could glitch it if I hit the guitar fast.
     
    I would surpass the number of voices my PC could support.
     
    I'm not sure if this information helps you.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #25
    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/21 22:28:54 (permalink)
    Try clicking on some of the elements at the top of the Synth and click the drop down and choose 'unload'.
     
    Then see if you still get the clicking.

    Really, I think you are just overloading your machine.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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    jackroller
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/23 11:52:41 (permalink)
    I'm not so sure that I'm overloading my system, but I'm open to learning.  

    Using the Atmospheric>Liquid Orchestra 1 patch with 72 voices active across all 6 elements, the max single core CPU usage is only 33% according to HWmonitor.  I understand it's an extremely complex patch, but it's happening on many others as well.  Unloading elements doesn't get rid of the popping, even if I take it down to just a single active element.

    Here's a link for the MIDI I'm using right now.  I have Sonar's tempo set to 120 and I don't use a sustain pedal.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5qgcfloa2zclyj/test.mid?dl=0
     
    What I don't understand is why I have to increase my audio buffer so much, and why RPro is the only plugin I have that gives me this issue (specifically the RPro library sounds, not the legacy sounds).  Especially considering that I've got other synths that will overload my CPU which work fine at low buffer settings (no pops).
     
    At this point I've done an entire system wipe and reinstall of everything using CCC.  I only have RPro installed so that there is no conflict with RSession or the two legacy synths.  

    It's disappointing because I really wanted to like RPro.  If I'd paid the full retail price I would probably be asking for a refund.  Kontakt or Omnisphere are looking like they might be a better investment at this point.

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
    #27
    gswitz
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    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/24 23:36:50 (permalink)

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #28
    jackroller
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 95
    • Joined: 2016/03/31 10:29:41
    • Status: offline
    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/28 12:37:47 (permalink)
    I'm still hoping this is an example of "Jackroller doesn't understand how to use his equipment," and that someone will come along with a definitive answer so I'll know what I'm doing wrong.  I've emailed support, but I'm still trying to figure this out.

    Could Firewire drivers be to blame?  I'm using the latest MOTU driver for my interface, but the pci-express firewire card it's connected to is just using the default Windows driver.  
     

    MOTU 896mk3
    Win 10 x64, Intel 5820k 4.0Ghz, MSI x99a Krait Mobo, 32GB RAM, JBOD from Hell.  
    #29
    robert_e_bone
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 8968
    • Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
    • Location: Palatine, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Audio pops/crackling with Rapture Pro. 2016/06/29 20:54:01 (permalink)
    @jackroller - I need to apologize in advance here - but your forum profile picture is leading me astray:
     
    Could it possibly be that aliens have somehow caused all of this?  Possibly some alien technology - a living organism based on a binary sequencing of alien DNA?
     
    I am REALLY sorry - I just found your profile pic really really funny and couldn't help myself.
     
    I DID read through the thread, and have not yet come up with any ideas on why this is happening to you.  I will go fire up some fresh coffee and take another spin through and see if anything makes sense.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #30
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