Rick O Shay
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AudioSnap workaround
Use Reaper.
Now hear me out before you flame me or banish me from the board -
I've owned various versions of Sonar going back to version 2 and love it more and more with each new release. Recently I've been working on a project with real multichannel drums (12 tracks) that needed some cleaning up and thought this would be a good opportunity to put AudioSnap 2.0 in X1b through it's paces. I poured over the manual and watched the online tutorial videos. I practiced with some stereo drum tracks just to get the feel of it and was getting good results. When it came time to work with the mutichannel drums, I just couldn't get AudioSnap 2.0 to work right. It was slow and clumsy and gave me inconsistent results. I fought with it for over a week and finally gave up.
After watching some online videos of Reaper being used to fix multichannel drums I thought I'd give it a try. It did exactly what I wanted it to do. Of course there was the usual frustration that comes with learning new software, but within a few hours I had drums that were fixed. Just for the fun of it, I went back to the original tracks and fixed them again. I found some shortcuts along the way, improved my workflow and got the drums to sound even better in less time. I exported the fixed tracks and am now using Sonar X1b to continue tracking.
I'm still a die-hard Sonar user. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with AudioSnap 2.0 or maybe it's just not quite up to par. After reading a bunch of posts about it, I'm starting to think its the latter. One of these days it will probably do exactly what I need, but when time and money are at stake, I need to use whatever tool I can to get the job done quickly and with good results.
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sharpdion23
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/15 20:34:17
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 AWSOME BIKE/wheel chair or whatever it is!
Win7 pro 64bit*SonarX1 PE 64 bit* AMD Athlon(tm)64 X2 Dual Processor 6000+ 3.00 Ghz* 4GB Ram* 232GB HD* Cakewalk MA-15D* SPS-66 FireWire
Owner of Sonar 6 Studio* Sonar 7 PE * Sonar 8.0 PE * Sonar 8.5.3 PE * Sonar X1 PE *
Link to upload Screens: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1592276 A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
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jaydrake
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 10:24:07
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Hey Rick,
I'm game for giving it a shot. I have reaper installed, maybe you could help me by pointing me in the right direction.
Jay Drake www.drums2b.com Win XP Professional Sonar 8.53 Asus A8V Deluxe w/Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2 Gig DDR 400 Ram RME Hammerfall 9652 2 UAD-1's, version 4.8 MTPAV usb Midi Interface 10k rpm sata Audio Drive ATI Radeon 9200SE 128MB Dual
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Rick O Shay
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 14:38:08
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JD,
It doesn't seem proper to use the Sonar forum to post detailed Reaper instructions. Send me a PM with your contact info I'll give you the steps I used to make it work. I'm by no means an expert, but hopefully I can help you avoid some frustration and get you up and running quicker.
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revsnd
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 14:54:52
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This SUCKS !!!!!!!!! I hate that after all this time Audiosnap is still a royal PITA!!! I have very similar problems, in terms of it sucking the tone out of a bass guitar ( no matter what algorithm i use ), and it working sometimes and not other times. Why it is not more intuitive, we'll never know. I was again trying to do multitrack drums today, and after following the steps to a T, it just shifted things all over the place after I bounced the file down.
So i had it completley quantized and sounding great, lined up the the grid, and pahse perfect....listend a few times to make sure things were great.... so i bounced them down, and it moved random tracks around. with no rhyme nor reason
AARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH
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brundlefly
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 15:43:31
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so i bounced them down, and it moved random tracks around. with no rhyme nor reason So naturally you hit undo immediately, and now have an un-rendered copy of the project that I can help you troubleshoot, right? AS has issues, but moving "random tracks around. with no rhyme nor reason" is not one of them that I'm aware of.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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brundlefly
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 15:47:36
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Ricochethopefully I can help you avoid some frustration and get you up and running quicker What? Frustration and a long learning curve in a DAW app other than SONAR? Not possible. 
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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revsnd
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 16:26:21
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Thanks brundlefly!!!! I did hit undo....went in checked it out and everything was fine...with no phase problems...all lined up perfectly. That really excited me, and i tried again to bounce and the different kick mics moved to the point of a big flam sound on the kicks ( but only a couple of them in a 4 bar area i worked on ). Overheads went out too, in bars 3 and 4. I know EXTREMELY WEIRD!!!! Does it work perfectly for you?
It does some other strange things lately, that pre bounce ( before i start working in AUDIOSNAP ) helps out. I need to really verify this on more though
EX. cut out a four bar section of multi mic'd drums, and enable AUDIOSNAP, and only a couple of the tracks show full normal markers, the other tracks all have the markers that are the diamond with an extremely short handle, AND... if I really zoom out to look at them they disapear. I checked each track to make sure that the threshold was set the same..and it's good there ???
SO... I go back... bounce all the tracks down before doing any editing ( as this seemed to help with V Vocal problems i had in X1), go back into the AUDIOSNAP palate and enable the clips, and now the handles show up correctly, and they don't disappear when zooming ou.
Anyway if this is somehow my fault, I do apologize and thank you for all your help!
If it's another weird bug that seems to make audiosnap another P O S add on.... I WILL PAY ALMOST ANYTHING $$$$$ to get CAKE to put their time into a paid update that fixes things like this and V Vocal. I no longer care that i have paid already for the product ( The prices seem to low anyway..so i guess you get what you pay for). I will pay much more in paid updates if they quit giving us UI changes and new keyboards, and put the time into making X! the best DAW on the market... as it easily could be.
I really do love the moderators and other users on this forum, and am a bit of a fanboy... but lately these things are driving crazy
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Eric Beam
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 17:36:12
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Your not alone I have never successfully used AS with multi-track drums. It's great for mono/stereo content only. Even the most basic/old school method of splitting the clips at transient points will cripple Sonar. If you do it will create a massive project file that will hang the system. I have a session handy if someone wants to try & or prove me wrong. I'd love it to work. - All the algorithms but "Percussion" will mess up the phase relationship of each hit, BUT
- The "Percussion" algo once quantized creates a real obvious out of time smeared pumping in-between transient markers. Hats really suffer.
- Splitting clips "at beat" transients will hang the system do to filesize/clip amount.
It's a real shame. I use PT's beat detective or reapers detect/separate function to get around the issue. PT/Reaper use the split/quantize/crossfade method. Nevermind all the "great" izotope stretch algos. I would be happy with a functioning split method in X1.
post edited by Eric Beam - 2011/08/16 17:42:50
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revsnd
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/16 17:46:07
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brundlefly
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Re:AudioSnap workaround
2011/08/17 02:04:04
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Does it work perfectly for you? No, definitely not. I have filed bugs against most of the issues you mentioned, and they've all been acknowledged. I thought you were saying that whole clips were moving drasticlaly out of position, whereas it sounds in your follow-up that you're just talking about phase shifts, which can absolutely be a problem. As Eric Beam pointed out, the Percussion algorithm is designed to preserve the desired alignment of initial transients at the expense of some quality on more sustained sounds. I think the Groove-Clip algorithm should also do a good job of phase preservation, and if you liked what you were hearing before it was bounced, you might want to set the Offline algorithm to "Same as Online" in the AS palette.Other algorithms may let the initial transient move around a little in the interests of getting the most transparent stretching of sustained sounds. And, as always, a lot depends on how well you massage the transient markers and choose which ones to leave enabled before using Merge and Lock (which is key for keeping multi-track drums in phase). But if it sounds good before bouncing down, it definitely should not get worse. 
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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