Teds_Studio
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Authentic sounding horns.....?
Anyone know of any good authentic sounding horns and/or horn sections that sound convincing? Everything I've tried so far including the horns on my XV-88 and all my softsynths sound....well....fake.
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Loptec
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 14:42:58
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SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 14:57:37
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☄ Helpfulby djoni 2013/06/06 17:05:01
Question: When you do your horn parts, do you do them all in one pass? If you haven't tried this already, play each part one at a time while mimicking the phrasing of a horn player. Don't quantize the tracks. The mistakes are what make it sound real.
My $.02.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 15:00:16
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Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it...!
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garrigus
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 15:03:52
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js516
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 15:14:05
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If you like hardware:
Yamaha Ex5r (has a VL1m engine, monophonic) or VL series (one or two voices)
Korg Karma/Triton with a MOSS expansion (6 voices), Z1 (12 or 18 voices) or Prophecy (monophonic)
Basically anything that uses Physical Modeling will produce *VERY* realistic brass and horns.
I use a Karma+MOSS (6 voices) and myEx5r's VL engine for horns. Its very good. :D
There is also the Technics WSA-1, but that one uses samples as the starting point and is dubbed "Acoustic Modeling" which isn't the same, nor as good.
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twisted6s
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 20:21:45
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Session Horns for Kontakt 5 ( I believe it works with the free Kontakt player as well)
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daveny5
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 22:57:26
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Making them sound real depends a lot on how you "play them" when you record them. Its more than having a good sample, although that helps. If you're just entering notes on a the PRV or Staff view, you will have to do a lot of work to make them sound real. Making horns (or any instrument) sound real involves giving them articulation, dynamics, phrasing, etc. That's what Frank Zappa called "putting the eyebrows on the notes." Its much easier to get real sounding horns using a synth keyboard (unless you can't play a keyboard). 
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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rabeach
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/06 23:41:03
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yamaha's VL70-m with the patchman chip upgrade along with a wind controller is about as good as it gets.
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lawajava
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 01:57:33
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I can't speak in comparative terms to the many suggestions here. I would just add that I have the Garritan Jazz soft synth and the horns sound really nice.
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 02:30:23
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GIM Productions
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 02:56:00
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OHHHHHHH!!!!Welcome back Brandon it's a real pleasure!!!!! Best Roby 
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 04:09:07
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GIM Productions
OHHHHHHH!!!!Welcome back Brandon it's a real pleasure!!!!!
Best
Roby
Hi there Roby. Nice to see you as well!
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mudgel
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 04:34:12
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Good to see ya face around here Brandon.
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Loptec
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 04:33:54
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GIM Productions
OHHHHHHH!!!!Welcome back Brandon it's a real pleasure!!!!!
Best
Roby
+1 Yes! =) ..Call me crazy, but it really induces some sense of cozy security knowing you're in the neighbourhood, Brandon :P
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
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Loptec
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 04:34:15
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sorry. double post..
(the forum isn't quite there yet.. for two days in a row now I haven't been able to post (for like an 30-60 mins each time) a few times getting error messages)
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
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geetsifly
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 07:19:26
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daveny5 is right on the money. I use horns in a lot of my stuff and the absolute key is all the stuff around the note: - Bends (yes horn players can bend ;) )
- Midi note volume changes, especially mid note, swells etc... (you cannot just paint in notes with the same volume, things will sound dead)
- pay attention if your are playing Legato, vs staccato
- and yes try not to over quantize.
I use First Call Horns running in the Kontakt engine. If you listen to my stuff "OK Time to Go Home" is a good example of the stuff mentioned above. Most of the other tracks are bad examples where the notes were carelessly clicked in the piano roll view. All of it uses the same sample library. One more tip, do this stuff as you go. It is way too hard to go back and add it later. George
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John
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 08:00:45
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Why did the OP have to start this thread. Loptec's post has me going to my piggy bank and looking in it hearing nothing but an echo.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 09:09:21
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The secret to emulating ANY instrument with sampled synths is in the articulations and the details.... basically, you need to be able to get inside the head of how a real player of that instrument would play it, then, be able to translate that to midi.
Lacking that, the best samples will sound fake.
On the other hand, using a halfway decent sample or midi patch, (TTS or GPO) put the details where they should be and you will have a very convincing track.
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daveny5
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 10:06:48
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If you want to hear good horn emulation playing, listen to Tommy Mars in Frank Zappa's band in the early 80's. He did that using a Yamaha CS80 which was an early polyphonic synth (not even a sample player). He used the ribbon controller to not only to bend notes up and down, but do slides, rips, falls, shakes, etc. which really added to the realism. Check out the middle section of "Easy Meat" on Tinseltown Rebellion or during the extended guitar solo at the end of "Yo Mama" from Sheik Yerbouti.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 10:09:27
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LOL @ John.
That's what I'm afraid of too.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 10:13:22
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And yes...it's good to see you back with us Brandon.
Thanks for the link...although I'll have to do a lot more high dollar sessions to get those horns :) .
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aleef
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 10:23:29
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all the really good stuff is expensive,
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konradh
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 12:55:34
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Assume you mean pop/rock/R&B, in which case the suggestions above are good. Vienna's Dimension Brass is awesome but expensive and is more orchestral in nature.
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aleef
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 15:20:59
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Guitarhacker
The secret to emulating ANY instrument with sampled synths is in the articulations and the details.... basically, you need to be able to get inside the head of how a real player of that instrument would play it, then, be able to translate that to midi.
Lacking that, the best samples will sound fake.
On the other hand, using a halfway decent sample or midi patch, (TTS or GPO) put the details where they should be and you will have a very convincing track.
very true..but the TTS and GPO lack dramatically in articulations. especially for the bluesier stuff.
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jackson white
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 16:39:02
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I'm a big fan of Kurzweil, find it works pretty well for a number of situations (all sections). I find a bit of attention to articulation helps, but might depend on what you consider "authentic". Had a client that preferred a patch from a Korg MI. Go figure...
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
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Lemonboy
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 16:44:55
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twisted6s
Session Horns for Kontakt 5 ( I believe it works with the free Kontakt player as well)
Yes I think if you already have Kontakt, then NI's Session Horns may not be the absolute best but are very good for the money. Andy
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rtucker55
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 17:21:41
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Using Chris Hein Horns Pro Complete here. Also use a breath controller for swells and brightness. Each horn part is recorded separately on its own track.
Kind regards,
Rick
Purrrfect Audio DAW here. Wow!...
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keith
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 17:43:09
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My suggestions based on personal experience... * If you need authentic, well-worn phrases/swells/falls/chord voicings/etc. then consider a loop/phrase library... Zero-G Phantom Horns is cheap and good, Ilio Memphis Horns is good too and at least the audio CD-ROM version is cheapish... * Chris Hein Horns... lots of horn types, articulation, scripting... if you don't need the massive full product, you can buy individual horns & sections here: http://www.soundsondemand.com/ (search for "chris hein")... he also released "CHH Compact", which is a cheaper slice of the overall product line... FWIW, I think a small chunk of Chris Hein Horns were used in the Kontakt 4/5 factory library, IIRC... * Vir2 Mojo ... has some features for humanizing playback, if you don't want to be bothered with making your tracks sound human the old fashioned way... * Wallander Brass... designed more for orchestral, but certainly capable of most styles... also has a cheaper "Wivi Band " product... Wallander is nice because everything is modeled, but keep in mind extensive control over model params is only available in the more expensive player * Sample Modelling... the older Kontakt-based brass and saxes and the newer "SWAM" based saxes are all excellent, given what they attempt to replicate...
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mugician41
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Re: Authentic sounding horns.....?
2013/06/07 18:45:01
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rabeach
yamaha's VL70-m with the patchman chip upgrade along with a wind controller is about as good as it gets.
That's what I use too. Along with a few roland units and alesis with the patchman windcontroller patches. Works awesome. I used a sax patch from the vl70-m on a track fort a client a few months ago and they are still raving about the sax. Never told them it wasn't a real sax. :)
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