Voda La Void
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Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
Struggling to figure out if Sonar X1 has the option to mute the record path playback on armed tracks during recording only. I need to monitor at the interface, so I will be hearing my recorded instrument playback at the interface and do NOT want it played back out through the DAW, creating that slap back effect due to the latency. But, I also need to be able to hear my record path coming out of the DAW to set levels and sound and etc.
The easiest way would be an auto setting to mute the playback of the recording path during "record" only. Some articles I've read seemed to suggest some DAWs have this feature.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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Cactus Music
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/06 18:49:07
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Don't use input echo on the track you are recording if it is audio. You only use input echo while recording midi tracks so you can hear the instrument.
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mettelus
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/06 18:56:21
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You can also manually mute an armed track, it still records, but you do need to set gains first. This is almost required when doing any type of loopback recording.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/06 20:26:27
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Cactus Music
Don't use input echo on the track you are recording if it is audio. You only use input echo while recording midi tracks so you can hear the instrument.
Doesn't input echo mix your input signal with your processed input signal? I am looking to mute the input signal altogether. mettelus
You can also manually mute an armed track, it still records, but you do need to set gains first. This is almost required when doing any type of loopback recording.
Yeah see I will need to be able to play back a recording to review it. And, I will need to hear the previous parts of what I'm punching in on. That's why muting the input signal from playback is the best option. That still lets you hear the last little bit of whatever you played just before the part you're punching in on, and you can quickly check your recording to make sure it's ok. To manually mute on and off would be tedious and time consuming. But I appreciate the response.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/06 21:34:55
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what kind of interface are you using ?
I hear both processed within DAW and RAW sound from my interface at the same time unless I set it to DAW Recording.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/06 22:04:10
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chuckebaby
what kind of interface are you using ?
I hear both processed within DAW and RAW sound from my interface at the same time unless I set it to DAW Recording.
Right now I'm using Mackie i1620 Mixer/Interface with a firewire 800 connection, soon to be upgrading to the Soundcraft MTK 22 with USB connection. Both handle audio the same way. I have instruments and mics plugged into the mixer for the record path, and I have been just putting up with the relatively low latency and just listening to all input signals coming out of the DAW's sound card. Now, I want to start direct monitoring at the mixer for zero latency monitoring and circumvent the DAW sound card altogether. Shouldn't be too big of a deal, really, just need the record signal to *not* come back from the DAW. Basically, it's just a direct monitoring scenario for any interface. Anytime you monitor at the interface you are not going to want to hear your input signal come back again from the DAW. It will be delayed and distracting, at the very least and impossible to record with at worst.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/06 23:57:58
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☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2018/02/07 03:14:14
You do not activate input echo if you DON't want to hear your incoming signal go back out the other end.
You turn off input echo to stop hearing the input at the output of your interface. Other wise you will hear a small delay depending on the driver. Mackie's driver is not the greatest so you probably have 20-30 ms of delay.
You do not have to mute the tracks.
Direct monitoring is defiantly the way to go and all you do is mix the output of the all ready recorded playback from your DAW with your input signals. There is no latency this way.
The minute you activate input echo that track will pass through to the outputs and you will soon find out how much round trip latency your system produces.
Only top quality audio drivers like RME/Motu at low buffer settings can go low enough to not be noticed.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 03:15:35
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Awesome, thanks Johnny V.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 12:32:58
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The last driver for the Mackie Firewire was for Windows 7. Are you still using Windows 7 ? If you are using the Windows/ or a compatible driver for the Mackie, you shouldn't be hearing any latency. Voda La Void
Doesn't input echo mix your input signal with your processed input signal? I am looking to mute the input signal altogether.
Not necessarily. But as I mentioned in my previous comment, unless your interface is set up to only hear processed data. You can turn off input echo but you wont be able to hear any FX, Amp Sims, EXC while recording. Just the dry signal.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 13:53:26
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chuckebaby
The last driver for the Mackie Firewire was for Windows 7. Are you still using Windows 7 ?
If you are using the Windows/ or a compatible driver for the Mackie, you shouldn't be hearing any latency.
Right now I have a round trip latency of around 20 ms, on this current old system. But I have a new DAW built and ready for the Soundcraft mixer purchase which uses USB 2.0. It will have even more latency due to the nature of USB. So, it's not just the Mackie, it's also the gear I'm planning for. The way I approach problems is to shoot for the most practical solution that eliminates the problem altogether. I could play all these buffer setting games, spend a billion dollars on amazing computer parts and audio gear and maybe when I'm done I'm down to a low latency recording chain. But there's still latency...so I've gone broke just to mitigate a problem that could be eliminated altogether with a more practical solution: direct monitoring at the mixer. You can't beat the speed of light for latency, that's for sure. chuckebaby
Voda La Void
Doesn't input echo mix your input signal with your processed input signal? I am looking to mute the input signal altogether.
Not necessarily. But as I mentioned in my previous comment, unless your interface is set up to only hear processed data.
You can turn off input echo but you wont be able to hear any FX, Amp Sims, EXC while recording.
Just the dry signal.
Yes, just the dry signal as it hits my mixer is exactly what I'm after. I don't use Amp Sims really at all, and any FX I use are applied to a dry signal. My whole studio set up is about capturing instruments and performances so dry signals are all I'm ever going to hear when laying tracks anyway, whether out of the DAW or right at the mixer. I ran out of time last night to test out the input echo, so I'm hoping to get the time tonight to see if that's the solution for me.
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Zargg
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 14:37:21
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Hi. I just wanted to say that USB2 will not be a bottleneck in any normal recording setup.
It's more about the drivers.
I use my RME Ucx over USB2, and can easily run sub 5ms RTL.
All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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mettelus
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 16:34:49
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I missed the Punch In part of the situation, which would make manual anything impossible. The only workaround that comes to mind on that is to direct monitor the input (guitar) along with the DAW output and record to a new track. The "mute" could be done prior to the recording by splitting the clip and shift-dragging that to another new track (so you would be working with three tracks in that case). Not elegant, but would give you the ability to 1) "mute" at the punch point by removing the overdub region, and 2) allow you to get the punch timing correctly after the fact (would require editing the new take back into the target slot, but would alleviate timing errors between the DAW and Direct Monitoring should they occur).
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Cactus Music
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 17:27:56
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☼ Best Answerby Voda La Void 2018/02/08 14:47:19
Why is everybody making this so complicated for the OP.
I think this is a plain case of the OP thought they needed input echo on to hear anything at all.
All modern audio interfaces have direct monitoring capabilities. This is Zero latency because the signal goes directly to the headphones or monitors 100% analog hard wired. No A/D involved. This is mixed with the playback from the DAW. The playback from your DAW if using ASIO mode will be adjusted "ahead" of time to compensate for the latency the new signal will suffer going in. Result is an overdub in sync with the original tracks.
I should not have to say this here as I would assume everyone has heard it a million times.
Round trip latency is a sum of the total of everything in the signal path from the input to output, each component depending on quality adds it's little bit ( pun intended)
A/D converters / The USB or Firewire system /The Computer system / Audio driver/ USB or firewire system/ D/A converters. Most of these add very little latency with the Audio driver being the worst offender. Generally interfaces in the lower price points have hidden buffers that make supper low latency impossible. Most perform at around 7 + ms RTL at reasonable buffer settings.
As the OP said, they have 20 MS RTL which seems what you would expect. Note that RTL will not change on different computers with different specs. This is another myth. The only thing gained will be that a faster computer can handle lower buffer settings therefore you will have lower RTL without dropouts.
The Soundcraft will probably still have the same RTL and this is nothing to do with USB vs Firewire. It's going to use typical drivers. Very few audio interfaces perform at the quality of those treasured few like RME.
If you do not use in the box effects and guitar sims RTL is not worth thinking about. You will never notice it UNLESS you engage input echo.
The Soundcraft is a great solution to having a multi channel interface and monitoring solution. I myself was looking at that board and it is a good choice. There are a few Sonar users here who bought one and say it's stable and works as described.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/07 19:07:16
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^^ Thanks. The way I look at direct monitoring at the interface...it doesn't change when the playback hits my ear, nor when I move and play in sync with it - it only changes when I hear what I'm adding - my input signal. That's it. It's a change in where you hear your own input signal only - nothing else changes.
Instead of hearing myself out of the DAW and back to the interface, I simply hear myself right at the interface.
The DAW doesn't even need to know I'm doing this to adjust for latency.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/08 14:51:18
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Just wanted to say I tried this last night and it worked perfectly. Input echo was exactly what I was looking for. Totally cool. I was able to turn it on and hear the latency effect, and then turn it off and just hear myself right at the mixer. Nice and simple for double checking your sound before you begin tracking, and then you can playback what you just recorded without turning anything on and off.
I know it's a simple thing, but I'm easy.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Auto Mute on Armed Tracks during Recording Only - Sonar X1
2018/02/08 18:43:29
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Right on.
The cool thing about Sonar is you can learn something new just about everyday. There is always more than one way to do the same task too. We adapt to the ones that work the best for us and myself it is always the simplest method that works for me.
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