Automap setup

I just got a Novation Remote Zero SL (1st version) for dirt cheap off "teh internetz" and am excited to use it, but I had a few automap questions before I go whole hog.
 
When automap wraps everything, how does that effect older projects? Will they still load plugins correctly? (I'm assuming the non-automapped versions)
Will the plugin manager display twice as many plugins? (the original and the automapped?)
Is there any other past-proofing that needs to be done before going automap crazy?
 

Ha, yes you'll now have twice as many billions of VSTs, and it shouldn't interfere with anything at all - old projects will just load the non-wrapped as they always did.
 
I have automap, and only use the wrapped version of a VST when there's a real reason to - like recording in real time.
 
That's just me and the way I like to do things - I take the stance of "if there's not actually a NEED for the automap version in a project, don't use it because it's just one more thing that has the potential to give some problem".
 
I have has issues in the past with some automap versions, but that's turned out to be the least of the issues that I have with Novation.
The worst problem I have, is actually the poor quality of the Nocturn 49 I have.
 
I think poor is an understatement, more like abysmal.
Maybe some of their other products are better - I'd hope so.
 
The Nocturn was not cheap price wise ... but certainly seem cheap in other respects.
I've replaced the pitch wheel 3 times, and the mod wheel once because the pots crap out.
And I'm actuall "Very Light" on them - so there's no way they should be a problem.
It' seems like the cheap toy you bought from the warehouse that's designed to last the warranty period then die.
Of the 8 knobs for CC control, 3 are flakey, one of which is SO Flakey it's unusable.
 
With the poor service I've received from the vendor (of which there's only one in NZ), and the constant problems, I'm doubtful I'd ever purchase another Novation product.
 
I can honestly say, that of everything music related that I've purchased in the last 45 years ... and it's a lot of stuff, Novation wins my prize for "the worst piece of junk ever".
 
I've bought musical toys for children that have been crashed, bashed, thrown about by their boisterous owners, yet way outlasted the Novation Noctun 49 I have been SO Careful with.
 
Other people may have a different experience, but that's mine ... so the only one that matters to me :-)
 
Cheers - Cliff

...wicked
So you otherwise wouldn't use an automap plug in a project? Does that present a hassle if you then decide you want to control things? Can the controller still work in an "un-automapped" state?
 

OK, here's my take on it.
 
Automap is very convenient, you can set up template that definitely make things easy !.
 
What the wrapped version does for you is give you access to all the "Host Automation" parameters that are exposed by the VST, so you are mapping to those instead of mapping standard MIDI CCs.
 
The advantage of that can be that MIDI has a limited number of CCs, host automation can expose a much larger number of parameters and you can control them all.
 
So ... to try and give some example of issues I've come across.
 
I used automapped version of NI Guitar Rig, using various knobs, expression pedal etc to record in real time. Cool, works no problem.
Then at a later time want to make some changes so insert a new copy of the synth used, insert GR in the effects bin (or maybe I just control/dragged - can't remember) GR from the original track. I actually tried all sorts, but the result was, if I wanted to take it to a new track and archive the original for reference, all the host automation envelopes would end up "Orphaned" in the new track. Then you've got to figure out what envelope was what, and re-link them to the correct parameter.
 
I found this put me off a bit, and I'm not sure exactly how much hassle that could turn into if I decide to (which right now, I think WILL be the case) throw out the Novation completely and use something else.
 
I imagine that with any other controller from another manufacturer, and their software which will be needed to do the same thing, if I want to go back and make changes, I could be in for a lot of fun.
Sure you can edit the host automation envelopes in the TV.
But, throw out the Novation and (I haven't tested, and don't have time right now) I'm not sure what hassles there could be when it comes to loading projects that use automapped synths or effects.
 
When I've had problem with the novation controller, it certainly made me think about it !.
 
I don't really know, but I imagine ANY controller that provides "Host Automation" access will be similar in nature.
 
I imagine the worst case scenario is something like this:
- Throw away Novation controller.
- Try and load project where automap is used.
- Automapped synths/effects won't load, because "automap server" won't start without the Novation controller connected.
- Sonar prompts about the synth/effect ... maybe ?.
- You have to load the 'non-automapped' version to replace it.
- Envelopes still there OK, and should work (I hope).
- At worst, different controller, different software, have to re-map to new controller ?.
 
I might have to do some testing now you've brought this up, but don't have time right now - just about to head off to a 12 hour shift :-)
 
Anyway - this is where I ended up ... after a lot of thinking.
 
I just don't use the automapped versions of anything, I haven't done so for ages now (since X1), just haven't found a burning need to.
 
What I do now, is I launch the Automap Server, because you need that running if you want to change the CC mapping of knobs and buttons - and that's all I do, is maybe map the CCs I want to use, and just use MIDI CCs for controlling parameters when recording real time.
 
Now by doing that (using MIDI CCs), in the future if I need to change controllers, it should be pretty easy.
 
Of course the disadvantage is that I miss out on having the ability to set up various "Automap Templates" for synths/effects, and have them automatically load with the synth or effect.
 
It's actually very nice to just customise an automap for something (I set up loads when I first got mine), set it as default, and it's just there every time you load the synth/effect.
 
You can set up several, and save them with different names - something I did to match for several custom GR presets.
 
It's definitely very convenient, but I just fear that it's convenience that comes at a price that I may not want to pay down the line.
 
At the end of the day, I've got by using the standard MIDI CC mapping, though at the cost of missing out on convenience.
 
You should go have a good play with it, maybe test out some of the scenarios above and see what happens and let us know.
 
There's nothing like you own experience - you might just come back and teach me a thing or two !.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Cheers - Cliff

...wicked
Does a Novation controller work un-automapped using SONAR's built in learn function? (not ACT)
 

Not quite sure what you mean by Sonar's built in learn ... you mean the learn function of any VST ?
Then yes my Nocturn does, and I imagine so would any controller - as long as it's seen by Sonar.
 
You will still want to run the automap server so that you can change the MIDI CCs.
You don't have to wrap anything to do that, just run automap and it gives you the GUI to edit which CCs are sent from which control/knob/slider/switch, and what MIDI channel to send on.
 
Without running automap you'll be stuck with whatever the default setup is, which might be OK for a lot of things.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Cheers - Cliff