200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
Docs say EUCON is supported. Does this mean that the Artist Control would be fully enabled when working with SONAR?
Anyone using this?
Can other vendors develop hardware to the Eucon profile or just software? I have not seen any other non-avid eucon controllers.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
cuitlahac
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 196
- Joined: 2011/07/24 20:09:52
- Location: Albuquerque, NM,USA
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/10 18:37:20
(permalink)
I asked this same question a while back. CJ is using this in his studio and seems to have success with it. You might try to PM him? There weren't many others that responded to the question though...... Personally, I elected to go a different route and stick to MCU protocols. EUCON scares me a bit (but really don't know why!)
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
|
cuitlahac
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 196
- Joined: 2011/07/24 20:09:52
- Location: Albuquerque, NM,USA
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/10 18:39:49
(permalink)
Oh..... and if you look at the features that are supported in PT as compared to the features that are supported in SONAR.....BIG difference! (I found some info about this on the AVID site.)
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
|
SuperG
Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1371
- Joined: 2012/10/19 16:09:18
- Location: Edgewood, NM
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/10 21:48:55
(permalink)
I think most people get the jitters with Avid because they're tight-lipped about their standards - many vendors have to reverse-engineer Avid products to get compatibility. I'm looking really hard at the Behringer X-Touch, it's less than half the price of a typical Artist series controller - it appears the be a better unit than an MCU...
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/10 22:31:26
(permalink)
SuperG
I think most people get the jitters with Avid because they're tight-lipped about their standards - many vendors have to reverse-engineer Avid products to get compatibility. I'm looking really hard at the Behringer X-Touch, it's less than half the price of a typical Artist series controller - it appears the be a better unit than an MCU...
I opted for the Icon QCon Pro. It is premapped for Samplitude and the manual says it can be custom mapped to Sonar. You can get a QCon for a bit more than the listed price of the new X-touch. I like it more than the X-touch because of overall look and that the scribble strip can be tilted up, plus some other intangibles.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
thomasabarnes
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3234
- Joined: 2003/11/11 03:19:17
- Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/10 23:07:35
(permalink)
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
|
CJaysMusic
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 30423
- Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
- Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/11 10:47:36
(permalink)
I use the Eucon A/C with X3 through Sonar 8.5. it works well as a matter of fact.
You need to install the latest drivers from Eucon and you need to install the Sonar patch.
Then just enable it in sonar just like any other control surface.
CJ
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/14 13:44:39
(permalink)
The QCON Pro does not work well with Sonar, it is unable to establish the MC handshake. There is a workaround: http://fr.audiofanzine.com/surface-de-controle-motorisee/icon/qcon/forums/t.481396,help-sonar-x1-and-qcon.html Unfortunately, (I spoke with tech suport) there is no way to change any of the QCON control mappings, so even if you do get SONAR to recognize one of the QCon's profiles (cubase) the function buttons will not be mapped properly to SONAR functions. If the QCON profiles could be edited then the unit might be serviceable. The CQON also has "Midi learn" mode, but that can't be used in conjuction with Mackie Control mode; it is essentially just a dumb midi controller at that point. In Samplitude, the QCon works well, but again it is not customizable in any way, so there is no way to reassign any of the buttons to do something else that you find more useful. This goes back to the store. As of today, what is the best Control Surface for Sonar? Do any of them give you the ability to customize what a control does in the software?
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 04:07:50
(permalink)
In general, all control surfaces are more or less "dumb midi controllers". What they do depends from the "smartness" of the software which translate signals into particular DAW operations (and back). Since CW has written specialized plug-ins for MCU and VS, I think they are "the best". Once I finish my plug-in, any CS will be as good as any other for SONAR 
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 11:22:07
(permalink)
azslow3
In general, all control surfaces are more or less "dumb midi controllers". What they do depends from the "smartness" of the software which translate signals into particular DAW operations (and back).
Since CW has written specialized plug-ins for MCU and VS, I think they are "the best".
Once I finish my plug-in, any CS will be as good as any other for SONAR
This is great. Did you use the cakewalk plugin source as a baseline? Is it possible in Sonar to modify what Sonar does in response to the MCU? The QCON Pro implements MCU protocol, but apparently there are some differences (and the button layout is different). When you start the QCON, it asks you to select a DAW mode (cubase, reason, etc) and once the software is started, connection is established and you can use the surface. The problem in sonar is that despite which profile is selected, the handshake is never established and the surface does nothing. Threads on the QCON suggest methods for sending a sysex to the qcon, but the QCON will still be operating in "Cubase Mode" which has the buttons programmed to do something useful in cubase. To get this working well in sonar would need the ability to custom map MCU commands from the surface to do the desired thing in sonar.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 13:10:03
(permalink)
200bpm
azslow3
In general, all control surfaces are more or less "dumb midi controllers". What they do depends from the "smartness" of the software which translate signals into particular DAW operations (and back).
Since CW has written specialized plug-ins for MCU and VS, I think they are "the best".
Once I finish my plug-in, any CS will be as good as any other for SONAR
This is great. Did you use the cakewalk plugin source as a baseline?
I use the IDL for the source. But the rest is rewritten.
Is it possible in Sonar to modify what Sonar does in response to the MCU?
With my plug-in - yes. That is the whole purpose. Please note that I can not modify what SONAR can do, it is defined by SONAR Control Surface API and only CW can modify it. The (almost) whole set of such actions you can find on my site.
The QCON Pro implements MCU protocol, but apparently there are some differences (and the button layout is different). When you start the QCON, it asks you to select a DAW mode (cubase, reason, etc) and once the software is started, connection is established and you can use the surface.
The problem in sonar is that despite which profile is selected, the handshake is never established and the surface does nothing. Threads on the QCON suggest methods for sending a sysex to the qcon, but the QCON will still be operating in "Cubase Mode" which has the buttons programmed to do something useful in cubase.
That small part is still missing... but it is only 2-3 days of work away. The idea is simple: you decide what and when should be sent. Obviously the handshake protocol should be known for that. That is a bit "gray area". In case documentation describe that commands, everything is clear. But in case the commands are "sniffed" on the MIDI level, I am not sure about legal aspects. For those who immediately answer "no, sniffing is illegal as any RE", please read MIDI specification about third party protocol extensions...
To get this working well in sonar would need the ability to custom map MCU commands from the surface to do the desired thing in sonar.
That part is already working in my plug-in for more then 90% of all possible actions (most important unimplemented actions are the jogger and somehow related scrub).
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 13:45:54
(permalink)
I would be happy to help you alpha test it. The QCON Pro is all wrapped up to send back, but if I can get it working I might keep it. This would hinge upon the abililty to map the MCU commands sent from the QCON into desired sonar action (within set of what CW has implemented.)
Also, I was wrong about the sysex; I believe the QCON needs to send a signal to the MCU plug-in, not the other way around. Since you are writing the plug-in, it may be possible to waive this requirement. The QCON is an attractive piece, it would be nice to have a way to easily work with this.
I am a software engineer but am just now learning about control surfaces. I spent last night mapping my Axiom 61 using ACT and I am questioning whether a Mackie Control is worth the additional complexity, given how much the axiom can do. Is it worth going to all the work to setup and integrate the QCON/MCU if I don't end up using it?
My reasoning is that if the MCU cant do something fundamental, then it is a waste of space. When using the QCON with Samplitude, it did everything well EXCEPT it could not define a range (for looping or punch) AFAIK. If the MCU or clone can define ranges and do every transport operation with hardware, then it would be a big win. Otherwise, if my hand floats to the mouse every other second to control the transport, then it is not worthwhile.
I'm trying to increase my productivity and enjoyment, not launch into a technical project. My requirements for an ideal control surface in sonar are:
*Enable full transport and track view control (ranges, zoom, etc.)
*Enable seamless control of ProChannel.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 14:43:15
(permalink)
200bpm
I would be happy to help you alpha test it. The QCON Pro is all wrapped up to send back, but if I can get it working I might keep it. This would hinge upon the abililty to map the MCU commands sent from the QCON into desired sonar action (within set of what CW has implemented.)
Please do not make your decision based on my plug-in... It is a hobby project, without time line, reliable support, etc. I can not say you when it is ready for professional use. In addition, I do not have any plans to get QCON. That means in case something goes wrong and I can not reproduce that with TouchDAW, you are on your own with debugging.
Also, I was wrong about the sysex; I believe the QCON needs to send a signal to the MCU plug-in, not the other way around. Since you are writing the plug-in, it may be possible to waive this requirement. The QCON is an attractive piece, it would be nice to have a way to easily work with this.
I am a software engineer but am just now learning about control surfaces.
If you have Visual Studio, you can modify CW sources. Mackie plug-in is waiting for response from the surface, but your can easily bypass it if required. Also remapping is just exchanging related constants.
I spent last night mapping my Axiom 61 using ACT and I am questioning whether a Mackie Control is worth the additional complexity, given how much the axiom can do. Is it worth going to all the work to setup and integrate the QCON/MCU if I don't end up using it?
For ACT mapping my plug-in can help even in case you do not use it with the controller. You see the mapping, can press buttons in the window instead of touching hardware controls, and you immediately see the result from changes. Do not forget to read my comments (if your good defined mapping no longer works after SONAR restart, you will find the reason in these comments...).
*Enable seamless control of ProChannel.
May be in X4... The API in X2 (I have not intensively checked X3, but it looks like the same) has several problems with PC.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 15:03:24
(permalink)
azslow3
*Enable seamless control of ProChannel.
May be in X4... The API in X2 (I have not intensively checked X3, but it looks like the same) has several problems with PC.
OK, this makes the decision easier. I can more easily control the PC with ACT and Axiom controller. Today I am playing with Samplitude Mackie Control editor and it is fairly well featured. It has a "midi monitor" and learn function similar to ACT. The Samplitude ProX "Silver" version is a free download (google). It has some limitations, but you may wish to look at their mackie control editor to give you some ideas. The QCON implements a subset of Mackie Control. There are less buttons. Because less buttons, some of the features have been dropped. (There is no "control" button, for instance.) It is/was my hope that key features could be remapped to other buttons. It seems like I will be able to do this in Samplitude, but because Sonar X3 does not allow control of PC from MCU, I will never get it working as well as I would like. Sadly, I will have to return this. Hopefully Cakewalk is working on a killer touch interface which will someday make control surfaces obsolete. Otherwise there is the upcoming X-touch that appears to implement the full MCU command set.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: Avid Artist Control with SONAR x3?
2014/11/15 19:26:25
(permalink)
azslow3
If you have Visual Studio, you can modify CW sources. Mackie plug-in is waiting for response from the surface, but your can easily bypass it if required. Also remapping is just exchanging related constants.
I am primary a C++/Java Unix/Linux developer but have a Win desktop for development with open source tools. When Cakewalk provided the source for their MC plugin, did they release it as a VisualStudio project with build targets/dependencies already defined? Or is it a source dump? I admit I'm intrigued about making a version of the plug-in to support QCON based on one of the built in profiles. It might actually be fairly easy. Edit: Wow, its been many years since I explored the Microsoft tools; it appears they have free versions of VS.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|