jb101


Does the BFD demo do it justice?
 
I downloaded it last night and can't say I was impressed.  Am I missing something?  The Toontrack stuff I have just sounded SO much more realistic.  The included BFD snare and  toms sound dreadful.
 
Is it just that the demo doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the full product?  If so, it's not a very good demo.
 
I was thinking about purchasing Eco or the full version (thanks Bristol J for the links) as so many people here rate it so highly, but this demo has not sold it to me.

The demo came with the ludwig vistalite kit, not my favourite kit but still it's what you do with it I guess.
An old drummer in a band I was in a few years back had a Ludwig Vistalite and it sounded pretty much like the one included.

When you say realistic do you mean the way drums sound on a record or when you're stood in a large room and someone is playing them?
The vistalite was recorded in a very large room and is very loud and boomy and like a lot of drum kits they need taming but that one is quite a wild one 

I thought the demo came with mixer presets but having just downloaded it I see there are none supplied so you are very much flying solo with the demo.

I'd suggest you start creating and shaping the kit in to a sound that you desire. Get to grips with the mixer and the very excellent effects provided.
Pull down the faders on the overhead, room and ambient channels and start mixing.

I would definitely recommend you spend some time studying and watching this Video Tutorial. BFD2 isn't really about sounding great out of the box. It's about giving you the tools and the raw sample to shape
the sound in as many and varied ways as you might want to but there is a big learning curve. 
A drum engineer would feel completely at home pretty quickly with BFD2 or with superior for that matter.

Steve

PTheory


Might be a daft question but do I need either of them if I have Abbey Road drums for Kontakt?

You also have Session Drummer 3....so no you don't need them....


The question you need to answer for yourself is "Are these programs that I already have sufficient to do what I want to do?"


THAT is always the question, as everything that comes with Sonar X1 Producer will do a fine job.

Charlie, we've had this discussion before, and there is NO DEFAULT PROCESSING on a BFD kit piece.

Bristol_Jonesey


Charlie, we've had this discussion before, and there is NO DEFAULT PROCESSING on a BFD kit piece.

Maybe he's talking about the fact that the presets have a lot room and overhead ambiance  in them.  Of course it only take moving 1 or 2 master faders to change that.  The drums themselves can be as dry as you want.

Widetrack


I'd like to ask the BFD ECO fans here a couple of questions about the software that I can't find on youtube or the fxpansion site. When you're clicking or playing in notes on the grid, can you shift the time of the hit accurately? As in moving a hit early or late by a specific number of milliseconds? Can you adjust the volume of individual hits, to create accents or ghost notes? How fine a resolution can you make a grid? Thanks for any help.

BFD Eco doesn't have a full blown drum editor like BFD2. BFD Eco only offers a drum lane where you drag loops, cut, copy and paste and arrange them as you want.
The humanise feature in both Eco & BFD2 will move notes either slightly before or after the beat, you can also humanise velocity, swing and there is a simplify dial too. 
You can drag the loops into sonar's midi track for detailed editing.


In my opinion the BFD2 drum editor is ok but it's no replacement for the piano roll view in sonar or any other sequencer I'm guessing.

Steve

 If I install BFD ECO, are its kits available to Sonar's step sequencer?

or loadable into SD3?

Bristol_Jonesey


Charlie, we've had this discussion before, and there is NO DEFAULT PROCESSING on a BFD kit piece.

Kind of reminds me of his other nonsensical comment

 ve used alot of different programs but my favorite still is session drummer,here is why: 
its stripped down so your adding all your own effects,not processed efeects that come with the drum simulator.(like bfd)  and have you ever tried to seperate every drum track out to a seperate track in bfd?  sure it can be done,but someone tell me how easy it is compared to session drummer?  the cost:hello ???  the onlt thing its lacking is a massive sound library.like bfd or addictive.  but then again,im not looking for a huge library,i want a dry drum sound so i can be the one to add the effects to my liking so it doesnt sound like the next guys drum sounds.  its those little things that make your music more original.  sample loop librarys: ??  dont even go there,if your a true musician your writing your own drum parts anyway so who needs them?  i just assume have a drum kit with no loops at all.

He seems to have it in for BFD which would be fine if his comments were valid or made sense I guess 


Steve

twaddle

Bristol_Jonesey


Charlie, we've had this discussion before, and there is NO DEFAULT PROCESSING on a BFD kit piece.

Kind of reminds me of his other nonsensical comment

 ve used alot of different programs but my favorite still is session drummer,here is why: 
its stripped down so your adding all your own effects,not processed efeects that come with the drum simulator.(like bfd)  and have you ever tried to seperate every drum track out to a seperate track in bfd?  sure it can be done,but someone tell me how easy it is compared to session drummer?  the cost:hello ???  the onlt thing its lacking is a massive sound library.like bfd or addictive.  but then again,im not looking for a huge library,i want a dry drum sound so i can be the one to add the effects to my liking so it doesnt sound like the next guys drum sounds.  its those little things that make your music more original.  sample loop librarys: ??  dont even go there,if your a true musician your writing your own drum parts anyway so who needs them?  i just assume have a drum kit with no loops at all.

He seems to have it in for BFD which would be fine if his comments were valid or made sense I guess 


Steve

Steve I remember when he was new to the forum and one of the first things he started to complain about was BFD, and boy did he complain!


Now, I'm not saying he didn't have problems, but it was never his fault, the problem was always BFD's or Sonar's and he got off to a really bad start with BFD and it's jaundiced his feelings about it ever since.

I have BFD2 on my desktop,but being winter ATM,I have been using my laptop,and I must say I much prefer the sounds and immediate simplicity of Steven Slate 4 Platinum,and due to it only being released since Xmas 2011,I think Slate has packed a lot more sounds[snares etc] that are way more likeable to my ears into a 9GB package than BFD2 has in 50GB.

Now I know BFD2,has an incredible mic/mixer/routing system which in some ways actually seems more high end than X1's console,but,and this is the biggest thing for me,I just don't like any of the actual drum sounds that are included very much-especially the snares[some of the kicks are good],and for 50GB,there actually seems to be less to choose from than SSD's 9GB.

I do realise that the mic'ing/routing tweaking options are incredible with BFD2,but it is 5 years old now,and I'm wondering if,had it been newer,would they have had more snares/kicks to choose from,with a much smaller payload than 50GB?

I have to admit that I've always loved the John Bonham drum sound,and Slate provides some very good,and differring approximations of that sound,so perhaps,as I find THAT so easy to accomplish with SSD,I'll possibly never be fully excited with BFD,that's just been my experience,as I recently re-installed BFD2 on my laptop,but took it off again,as I just coudn't justify 50GB,for something that didn't provide the sound I want.

We'll see what happens,when I start working on my desktop again in a little while,I could eventually get to see the whole program,for what it truly is meant to be,I hope! 
Bob

twaddle

Bristol_Jonesey

twaddle

Bristol_Jonesey


Charlie, we've had this discussion before, and there is NO DEFAULT PROCESSING on a BFD kit piece.

Kind of reminds me of his other nonsensical comment

ve used alot of different programs but my favorite still is session drummer,here is why: 
its stripped down so your adding all your own effects,not processed efeects that come with the drum simulator.(like bfd)  and have you ever tried to seperate every drum track out to a seperate track in bfd?  sure it can be done,but someone tell me how easy it is compared to session drummer?  the cost:hello ???  the onlt thing its lacking is a massive sound library.like bfd or addictive.  but then again,im not looking for a huge library,i want a dry drum sound so i can be the one to add the effects to my liking so it doesnt sound like the next guys drum sounds.  its those little things that make your music more original.  sample loop librarys: ??  dont even go there,if your a true musician your writing your own drum parts anyway so who needs them?  i just assume have a drum kit with no loops at all.

He seems to have it in for BFD which would be fine if his comments were valid or made sense I guess 


Steve

Steve I remember when he was new to the forum and one of the first things he started to complain about was BFD, and boy did he complain!


Now, I'm not saying he didn't have problems, but it was never his fault, the problem was always BFD's or Sonar's and he got off to a really bad start with BFD and it's jaundiced his feelings about it ever since.

Well you've almost got me feeling sorry for him now 

On another note (apologies to the OP) I was was having another look at the Dunnet kit and wandering whether to get my wallet out as you've said how taken you were with it.
Does it come with a heap of presets? Not that I use such things of course 

Steve

No idea mate! I never touch the presets, preferring to roll my own from scratch, every time.

This is one reason why my projects take so long

twaddle

bobguitkillerleft


I have BFD2 on my desktop,but being winter ATM,I have been using my laptop,and I must say I much prefer the sounds and immediate simplicity of Steven Slate 4 Platinum,and due to it only being released since Xmas 2011,I think Slate has packed a lot more sounds[snares etc] that are way more likeable to my ears into a 9GB package than BFD2 has in 50GB.

Now I know BFD2,has an incredible mic/mixer/routing system which in some ways actually seems more high end than X1's console,but,and this is the biggest thing for me,I just don't like any of the actual drum sounds that are included very much-especially the snares[some of the kicks are good],and for 50GB,there actually seems to be less to choose from than SSD's 9GB.

I do realise that the mic'ing/routing tweaking options are incredible with BFD2,but it is 5 years old now,and I'm wondering if,had it been newer,would they have had more snares/kicks to choose from,with a much smaller payload than 50GB?

I have to admit that I've always loved the John Bonham drum sound,and Slate provides some very good,and differring approximations of that sound,so perhaps,as I find THAT so easy to accomplish with SSD,I'll possibly never be fully excited with BFD,that's just been my experience,as I recently re-installed BFD2 on my laptop,but took it off again,as I just coudn't justify 50GB,for something that didn't provide the sound I want.

We'll see what happens,when I start working on my desktop again in a little while,I could eventually get to see the whole program,for what it truly is meant to be,I hope! 
Bob

The last part of your post about seeing it for what it's meant to be is the most telling Bob

I have to agree after listening to the solo demo's of the kits they are really great sounding kits but I really wouldn't compare either steven slate or addictive drums with BFD2 or Superior because they have a completely different ethos. BFD2 and Superior aren't about pre-processed sounds, they are about creating your own sounds from scratch.  The Steven Slate kits are all very processed but I have to say they are processed in a very good way and have a nice natural feel to them.


The thing with me is, having been in bands and played drums in big rooms and small rooms for over 30 years I really love the sound of natural un-processed drums. 
Naturally people will always have their preference but to my ears nothing comes as close to my experience of that sound as BFD2. It really is like I'm there.
Apart from being a great singer song writer & a great guitarist I absolutely love the drum sound of the white stripes because it is so raw and stripped down which I really like. 


Obviously I have no idea who on this forum has, and who hasn't been in and around real drum kits and real drummers for any period of time. But I am quite certain that what a number of people claim "sounds like real drums" is what they've heard on the records that they like and they have never been, or spent very little time with a real drum kit. 
Nothing wrong with that at all and that's going to have a lot to do with age. 

I've been a youth worker for the last 13 years and I know hundreds of people who have no idea what a real drum kit sounds like or how a ludwig vistalite sounds compared to a yamaha oak kit. 
Lots of them are young musicians who have yet to play in a band or with other musicians so how could they know.

Anyway, to drag this waffle back to the OP's question, he wanted comparisons between BFD2 and Superior so I'm guessing he is aware of the ethos behind each product and he wants raw drum samples that he can mix and produce 
him self from scratch.

Steve

Yeah Steve I totally get the unprocessed sound thing,having played with Im not totally sure but maybe 20 different drummers in my live/recording pre existence in the 80s 90s,and only ONE of those guys got what I would say was my all time favourite sound,but especially his style

It was an odd experience too,as the band I was in at the time was pretty shaky experience,due to the singers whims and wants,but I ended up getting woken up on a Monday morning,with the then Bass player saying "Oh man quick","get around here ##$$[singer] has us booked to play live on the radio,at 2pm"[with NO prior knowledge AT ALL!],and "we need to go through the set"with this drummer who I'd never met,but knew of,as he was the producer of one of the later "Church" albums,after their[Aussie Band-"Under the Milkyway" hit single]so we rehearsed at the bassists lounge room acoustically[NO amps or Drumkit!],and then went into the radio station,and did the set live to air.

Well to say this guy resembled JB was a total understatement,and totally blew me away,as this is the first time I'm actually hearing his amazing sounding kit/playing,while we are going for it,live to air!!

So yeah I do have some experience of REAL drums in differring situations,but this guy was the ONLY one to really kick the proverbial a%$^,and that's exactly what I'm still looking for all these years later,and I'm finding it[to some degree] with SSD4 Platinum,but not with BFD2,but I'm hoping,as I said,to discover obviously all that may be hiding within the software.

Off hand how many actual Raw snares are there in BFD2?,cause I can only find what is offered on the kit page which totals only about 10 or so,you know "Blue/Black[?]Oyster","Brady" etc,and I just immediately don't feel compelled to tweak,like Iv'e already said.

I don't know if you have attempted to listen to my possibly long winded instrumental "DEBASSED 69" on my soundcloud page? but that was done with the EX lite version of SSD4,and is just the "Old Zep" kit with the room fader pulled right down,and almost no EQ or processing,with just a couple of modified/written from scratch patterns[I can't exactly remember which lol]with a couple of EZ drummer's MIDI fills [the best part about EZ IMO,is the MIDI"Fills"]modded,or cut etc.

Cheers
Bob



P.S. Jack White's latest tune/video [with the Lime Green 2 door muscle car in it] sounds great,and I too admire his style/sound,also as he often has NO Bass guitar in his music,which happens to be a reason my tune is called "DEBASSED 69" ha ha.

Bristol_Jonesey


Bob, it's not just the snares themselves you need to be playing with, there's all the other options.

I think all of the stock snares have 3 microphone positions - 2 top, 1 bottom, you'll get a LOT of mileage by blending those properly, then follow that up with a bit of EQ & Compression

Then there are the huge number of settings you can work on - damping amount, damping frequency, sends to room, o/h & amb3, tuning, dynamics, bleed, and this is before you start playing around with the articulation controls & settings.

Believe me,I fully understand that,but if the drum itself has a raw tone/timbre,that I don't know how else to put it?....that I just do not like the sound of,all the routing mic,placement within the realms,that I found within the program so far don't entice me to work on it,it just turns me off a tad...sorry.


I am re-installing it again on my laptop NOW,so here goes,3rd time this time,to take a much longer,more open minded approach,and I guess  I'll see!


Cherry Red
Bob

stevec


Go figure...    Audiomidi has SS4 Essential on sale for $20 until 8/31.   I'm currently waiting on my BFD Eco to arrive, but now I'm wondering if I need yet another drum synth to add to my collection...  
 

That's a weird deal,because there was NO essential pack before,theres always only been EX or platinum,but after reading the add at AudioMidi,it sounds like you get the SSD4 iinterface GUI which is no different between EX or Platinum,just you get kits called "Essential",which I do not remember being listed in either EX or Platinum[I had 3.5 EX-upgraded to 4.0 EX for $47,then upgraded to Platinum for $90]


$20 is a super deal if you get the same interface,and some of the good sounding kits AND the grooves then its a mega deal,as it doesn't even have a manual,as it is so easy to operate,even with the mixer/routing/mapping options.

I mean I paid $165 for EZ[first week of Daw exposure] and ONLY use it for it's MIDI patterns+fills now,but $20 for even a trimmed SSD4 sounds amazing!

Cheeryo
Bob

SSD4 has about 4 kits with about 100 presets created by layering the drums from those 4 kits

Similar to the 25 presets we include for our Rock Legends kit 

BFD has far more samples in the pool than SSD4 

Here's a Bonham sounding kit from our Andy Johns Classic Drums for BFD...

https://www.platinumsampl...ompressed-more-hat.mp3

Andy recorded most of the Led Zeppelin albums.

Rail

bobguitkillerleft


Hey Steve,firstly Thank You for listening,and great constructive advice,it's been nearly 20 years since I have done any recording,so it's very good to get some good feedback.

Yes 20,maybe stretching it but it's definitely around 12 or so not counting hobby/jam guys,a couple whom should have been pro,and wow I'am such a newb with the net/computers,I didn't even think of going to the FXspansion site[!]instead of the PDF, so thanks for the link,it looks like I certainly missed at least 3 on that list,so again digital in- experience is showing-again.

About sending the raw drum track of that tune,to start with I have no idea how you do that[actually sending it][much embarrassment]but also I'm a little shy about picking it out amongst the mess that went with creating that tune,and I guess I'm a little surprised anyone would want to go to the trouble of recreating it,but I'm also kind flattered/scared[it does have few wrong bits in it ha ha]and I'll have to think about it for a bit,if thats cool?

Wow,you got a lot of material on soundcloud,and yes 8 bit blues has a Tom Waits kind of feel,in fact I saw his new song on our national ABC[our version of the BBC here sort of]Video show called "Rage" tonight,very full on imagery of war/houses and Tom of course.

I liked the "Postman",and "Strange Fruit" out of the few I v'e been able to listen to[so far],your'e getting some eclectic sounds from someone I would have guessed was primarily a guitar player from your Cakeforum avatar!

It's just gone 5.43 am here on Friday/Sat morning,but yeah after my usual weekend Saturday-day write off/sleep session I'll certainly give this all some more thought,as well as re-installing BFD,and obviously listening to more of Your Music!

Cheers
Bob

Thanks Bob
Well I just went and bought Steven Slate Essential for $20. Seemed silly not to at that price. Lets hope I get to use it though I'm not liking the look of the mixer or the thought of only having kontakt as the only alternative.
They're both a bit grim.


As for creating a preset don't get your hopes up for it being too great but I'll give it a shot. If you can load the song in to sonar and solo the slate drums, bounce them down and export the bounced drums to MP3 that would be good.
If you could even bounce them separately that would be better.


There is quite a lot of stuff on soundcloud. I prefer the instrumentals as I hate hearing my voice but the postman is ok. Like the lyrics at least.
That Tom waits song you mentioned is off his new album "Bad As me" and I think the song is called Hell Broke Luce. Great video too.

I am primarily a guitar playing singer/song writer but I grew up listening to all sorts being the youngest of 6 and I think that shows. he film, "Fiddler On The Roof2 and TV theme tunes were as much an influence as anything else 

Sounds like you need some sleep.

Steve