B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?

I find Jammer V6 (Latest) the best. I have used it since V2 and it is indispensible when it coms to fleshing out a piece and giving me ideas for accompaniament. when I'm done I export to MIDI and import into Sonar and go from there to really tweak it.

I am a hobbiest so its just fun for me but I can see how a serious composer could use this for speeding up the arrangement process especially if you can't play everything and or don't have access to a bunch of other live musicians.

regards,

Mike V

IMHO, Jammer's styles are much better. They just have more of a groove. The problem is that there isn't a lot of styles and they don't seem to ever update them. But to be honest, I haven't upgraded since version 4.0. So maybe there's some new stuff with version 6.

BIAB has gobs and gobs of styles. But the majority sound like a cheap Casio keyboard from the 80s (IMO). There are some decent ones (especially, in the area ofold school Jazz). But you have to hunt and hunt for them. BIAB can do lot of of other utitlitarian type things. For example, you can import a General Midi file and it will tell you all the chords.

One little trick I've found to make Jammer and BIAB tracks sound a little more hip is to mix in some Stylus RMX grooves. Often I'll give the midi notes in the Jammer/BIAB tracks the same start times as the Stylus midi notes. This can really spice up a dull GM track.

A little more info on Jammer 6.
All the styles and musicians within each style are fully customisable and so give very faithful renditions of each instrument and how it might play its own part in an arrangement.

I ended up buying all the styles and there are about 3000 in all. Very complete. Download the demo and see for yourself.
regards,
Mike V.

i don't think it loses anything by not being a plug in

ORIGINAL: mudgel
I ended up buying all the styles and there are about 3000 in all. Very complete.

Has Jammer added new styles in the past few years? I know they've broken out the individual parts of the previous styles for use (which is cool). But I can't figure out if they've ever created any new ones?!

It's cool that you can create your own styles from your own midi tracks.

I have found Jammer highly useful as a scratch pad. I have never been satisfied with the results as is. But for fleshing out an idea or trying out alternative chord progressions or styles it is helpful.

I'll continue to use it for those purposes but otherwise I find it too limited. There are aslo features I dislike.

Although I like the idea that Band styles appear below the staff, unfortunately inserted drum styles do not. Consequently changes in drum style within a band style do not show up on the screen anywhere and are thus dificult to keep track of and or edit. Furthermore I think the program would explode in usefulness if they promoted the idea of third party styles and even released a better development kit for that purpose than the capability already built in.

Years ago using Jammer version 4, I worked out several bass and drum styles on my own to mimic habits of The Vineyard Music Group releases from Touching The Father's Heart. They helped me a lot. Sadly I lost them when by computer along with backups were destroyed.

jammer is BY FAR the best ...

ORIGINAL: mudgel

A little more info on Jammer 6.
All the styles and musicians within each style are fully customisable and so give very faithful renditions of each instrument and how it might play its own part in an arrangement.

I ended up buying all the styles and there are about 3000 in all. Very complete. Download the demo and see for yourself.
regards,
Mike V.

i don't think it loses anything by not being a plug in

Jammer 6 is very good, you can now quickly build a style by adding/changing musicians from different styles.
The engine has also far more possibilities than BIAB, and I find the styles good. At least they help you a lot in creating some base tracks.

Now I don't agree about the plug part. I would love to see Jammer as an Mfx and VST-MIDI plug.

ORIGINAL: karmacomposer

This is a subject I have a lot of interest in. I used to use both Jammer and BIAB years ago. Then I bought some expensive keyboards that did much of what those packages do - but in the hardware.

I think Jammer and BIAB are both good if you are looking to do wedding music, jazz or just as a scratch pad, but for serious projects that come my way I would not use either. Heck, I purchased a Technics KN7000 which is the end-all be-it-all of arranger keyboards (even better than Tyros 1 or 2) and the price shows it! Even THAT is not good enough. In the end, it depends on WHAT you are making music for. If it is for fun, then take your pick of jammer or BIAB. However, if you are making music for commercials, multimedia or anything broadcast or cinematic, you would get laughed out of the production.

Does anyone have any ideas on pro-grade arrangement software. My korg karma comes really close hardware-wise - and I have used it for many many pro productions, but I would love to see something more open ended EXACTLY like my Karma, but easier to use and program! I am looking at Stylus RMX because it looks as close as you can come to percussion and rhythmic backing/arranging for more of today's sound.

What do you think?

Mike

First off, thanks for all the feedback, I didn't know it was such a hot topic.

Mike, with your comments, I would have to disagree. I had a Korg Karma and found that too was also limited. I have BIAB but not Jammer but I do not have the extra styles packs (for the life of me I don't know why they don't (BIAB) update the GUI though and get away from that Jazz feel to everything which I agree it does.

However, create some chords, add in Trilogy, BFD, real guitar, vocals, EWQLSO, or VSL and you will hardly be laughed out of productions houses, especially for television composer, they are lucky to make $5000 grand a week let alone the time it would take to bring in (both time and budgets) session players and/or orchestrations. TV requires quick turn around as do ADD houses. I scored a few trailers using a synth and Acid 4.0 or I think 3.0. So anything is possible in the right hands......

My point was wondering the differences. In addition, I would also like some sort of program or chord book for guitar that talks about alternative chords (inversions, progressions) as I understand it in piano (theory.harmony.counterpoint) and although guitar is my main instrument, I do not know TAB reading very well. So am also looking for something simple that would, (for example) if I have a song in "G" major, and use the I, V, IV (which is what everyone does G, D, C), lets says instead of "D" I could replace it with an alternative voicing that stays in the range of "D" and flows with the bassline.....

Any books or internet sources available? Think George Harrison and how well he would compliment, Paul and John's simple guitar structures.

Another vote for BIAB. You can import midi files (many on the net) and create your own new styles by doing that, AND it has a decent vocal harmonizer (based on TC Helicon engine).

I sketch out a song and song structure with BIAB, then import to Sonar, delete the "twinky" sounding tracks and add drum loops, etc., so that it's eventually unrecognizable as having started with BIAB--but you DO end up keeping a lot of the stuff! (Maybe some drums, bass a lot of the time, strings, etc.)

Jerry

can sonar make a midi plugin like those(jammer,band in abox)?????????

Well, we had JMT Orchestrator from ntonyx, but useless (for me).

Now I don't know why these other product never made it as an mfx or vst-midi plug.

I finaly ended creating my own tools.

I have used BiaB for many years for practicing playing leads through a song's chord changes, like jazz minus one. It is real nice for that. But I only use the drums and bass, leaving the guitar, piano, and strings turned off.

Sometimes I will use it to make a lead sheet for some song, chords only.

Band in A Box is pretty usable as a drum arranger. I used to a setup song in BiaB, then export the midi drums only. Pickup the midi drums in Sonar, and tweak them, using a decent drum synth. But now I use Jamstix for this purpose.

I have used it for song arranging, but only in unusual situations. Once I recorded My Funny Valentine using the BiaB African beat. It was unusual enough that I got away with it. For the most part, it is a little too cheesy for my taste.

I really with they had a windows interface. I have brought this up, and they insist they need to keep their legacy interface so old customers will stay happy.

They pickup the phone and are responsive to calls.

Sorry,
I'm beginner in Cakewalk and have a task to change instrument. For example I took 'Dancing Queen' mid file and put it in CPA9.03. Then I do as follows:
1.Select 1 channel, then Optimization->Instrument
2.Port/Channel choose -1:MS GS Waveable
3.Uses Instruments -> Roland GS-> Define
4.Patch Names ->Roland GS var#1->60=French Horn2
5Close, OK
and ....no any results, no change of sound
What is incorrect? Would you like to help me
Kuguar

I use BIAB to generate all piano parts and I think that it does an admirable job. Take a listen to my link. It is embarrasing when I get praise for my piano playing on the songs board. I see it as no different to hiring a session musician.

I remember seeing a lot of user sites for BIAB out there which had collections of styles posted. Maybe some of those might not feel so jazzy.

Sorry once more for bad manners.Thank you musicman100 for kind reply: I use BIAB for long time
Kuguar
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