BPM versus Maschine

Again, this could be Project5 related, since we could use either of these units along with Project5. Let's assume that's what I'm talking about so that the thread doesn't risk being moved by the new "stricter" moderators

Okay, again, I can't figure out what the difference is in these units from watching the videos. All I can say is that from a totally ignorant video-watching standpoint, it seems the BPM is the hipper unit. What I guess we do know is that both of them have their own integrated sequencers. This is very cool.

Aside from that I'm baffled as to which unit offers what features and thus which might be more applicable to me.

Anyone figured this out yet?

Anyone know prices on either of these units (in U.S. dollars)?

Edit: Oh, BPM is just software. Well they fooled me. I thought it was a hardware piece. I was wondering why they were using an Akai pad controller with it. Now I know. So in a way, BPM is a type of DAW not unlike P5 in its pattern-oriented focus. Cool! I like it!

Apparently NI's Maschine is going to retail somewhere between $600-$700, and I'm gathering from reading other comments elsewhere that this is maybe too high. The reality is that by now many of us have various midi controllers and some even a few, and these midi controllers sometimes duplicate feature-sets. My Alphatrack and my RemoteZeroSL both have transport controls, buttons, dials and one or more faders. The RemoteZeroSL has drumpads. At some point you either throw in the towel, sell off your current controllers and join the party, or you stick with what you've got and learn to use it well.

The BPM software looks cool enough, but I have Fxpansion's GURU and NI's Battery (and several other pieces of software that likely cover a good number of the same bases BPM covers, including Project V). Cakewalk have now had a real good opportunity to see what directions the industry is going with regard to beat production, and have seen some real innovation in this regard from companies large and small. Perhaps they'll choose to morph Project V into an even more hipper version of itself and chip away at the features these other applications/VSTi's offer. As a Sonar PE 8 user I only use Project V sparingly and really never got my head around the product such that it was my go-to app when I was inspired to write. I keep meaning to. Maybe because I've been using Sonar and it's iterations since the old DOS days - I'm just unwilling/unable to embrace a new workflow/interface - even if it can be rewired in.

The great thing about NAMM (and similar periodic shows like MusicMesse) is that we get a glimpse of the innovation that companies will bring to the table this coming year, and at the same time to recognize deficiencies that will enable other companies to trump their products. Different approaches appeal to different segments of the market, but a universal approach that appeals to most is the one elusive cash-cow generator every company would love to employ/enjoy.

KEv

I'm all about Maschine at the moment, too. I want it soooooo bad.

ORIGINAL: Nick P

What I like about BPM is that, although admittedly software only, it solves a huge issue: That of which DAW software I will use based on creating drum parts.

That's actually a really good point.

However, in my case, it's not too much of an issue. At the moment, I use Battery and Velocity more than anything else, and I've kind of avoided drum machines with their own sequencer, because I like doing drum parts from the sequencer instead of the plugin, in case I want to switch out kits or use the other drum machine. Because back when I was using Reason, I always use to build my drum parts in Redrum and when I wanted a different kit, I'd struggle with trying to adjust the sequenced sounds to their new position. So, I'd always end up with this little notepad that I'd drawn a step-sequencer onto so I could just rebuild the pattern without wandering all over Redrum.

But like I said, that's a really good point.

you seem pretty sure, trusty.
I'm curious what makes you think of that... Maschine seems like some very good integration between the computer and the hardware box, giving visual feedback not only on the monitor, but also on the screens on the hardware itself.

I'm not a NI employee or anything, but I suspect this piece of gear will sell very well... it has everything I wanted : step sequencer with visual feedback, sampling, slicing/editing, recording... well, everything I'd actually need to make music.

I don't really care for the included sounds, I wouldn't buy it for that, but the hardware and its possibilities make it pretty appealing to me.

BPM, well, it seems to have the architecture of an MPC, except you don't have knobs for all of its features, which means that I'd need the computer at some point.

It seems to me that once your library is working with Maschine, you could build a whole track without looking at the screen once, while keeping the potential of the computer available if needed.

well, just my two cents.

Amen on the step sequencer note, too. SONAR's Step Sequencer is okay, but doing the velocity the way it is makes me upset. I wish that next to each row there was a little button that would expand a controller pane like the one at the bottom and you could just quick with the mouse change the velocity of everything in that row without having to double-click and type in each one. The visual feedback would be nice in that instance too.

That would be f'n stellar.

you could just quick with the mouse change the velocity of everything in that row without having to double-click and type in each one. The visual feedback would be nice in that instance too.

Hold the Shift key, then left-click & hold on one note in the targeted row. An 'orangish' border appears; about 4 rows in height.
The border area location depends on the current velocity value. Centered with v=64, downward from v=127, upward from v=1, etc.

Continue to hold Shift+left-click, and move vertically to adjust the first velocity value to the desired number.
Drag horizontally across that row to bring all active steps in that row to the same velocity value.

making drastically different velocity values for everything in the row all at once quickly. Similar to using Rapture's Step Generator, I suppose.

Fair enough. I'm still not comprehending exactly what you mean, though.

If you mean 'drawing in all velocity values within a row', then Shift+left-click can do that; similar to drawing in Rapture's step generators. Instead of sweeping the mouse perfectly horizontal, vary the vertical movement between the upper & lower 'border lines' as you move across the row.

If you mean 'fixed or proportional' to the current velocity values in that row (like using the mouse scroll wheel in a stepgen, or RP's Normalize Steps command), that's what the velocity offset & velocity scale widgets are for. But I can understand it if you'd prefer to see those offsets/multipliers reflected in the steps' velocity values themselves.

KIA tips aside, there is no way that doing drums with Sonar's step sequencer can hold a candle to this BPM product. For starters, you can't change pattern length once you've committed. And it looks dumb, too. I had resigned myself to using it simply because Brandon took my comments (kudos Cakewalk) and implemented changeable velocity on the mouse paint-in. Too bad this never happened in P5, since its pattern sequencer is way more elegant.

I got BPM, and so far I like what I see, it does have its limits though, but sometimes its nice to work within limitations, keeps things simpler that way.

I'l put it to you all like this> BPM is a game changer... I have BPM, and it's my new best buddy . I Love my Project 5, but I have a new playground; BPM is practically everything it needs to be...don't get me wrong, there are a few gripes I have with it, but this this has to be the most "Musical" software I've ever played with! For those looking to work without the technology being the focus, BPM will likely answer that call... IMHO


-LD

Unfortunately not that I can see. You can sample into the pads, and you can have multilayers. You can sample loops, but afaik you want make multisample instruments. When I get a proper chance Ill do a check on that so that Im 100% clear, but Im fairly sure you cant.

ORIGINAL: rcross

LabDog, Stuart,

is it possible to create your own sampled intstruments in BPM? Are you limited to just UVI instrument format?

I am interested in whether I could load my own samples and create multi-sample instrument with mutiple samples for different note ranges as well as velocity ranges.

TIA.

I'd say you'd be better off with Motu's MachFive v2 for multi-sampling duties. BPM Kicks ass BTW.

ORIGINAL: rcross


So what is the verdict? BPM or Maschine?

I haven't used either, but have spent a bit of time researching BPM - it looks pretty nice. But, I'm holding off until Guru 2 is released, which is likely to be as good or better than these two. After all, both of these beat machines pretty much just ripped off Guru, so if FXpansion implements most of the common feature requests, G2 will blow the others away.

I still can't believe someone hasn't just come out with an exact virtual MPC. How much market research does it take to figure that one out. Akai, knock, knock, knock. The market's calling. Any info on Guru II yet?