BRAND NEW Acoustic Song: "About A Girl Named Sunshine"

Hey everyone,

Here's a rough mix of a new song I did. It's called "About A Girl Named Sunshine". The volumes in some spots are wrong. I dunno about EQ since my ears have listened too many times. Feedback appreciated!

Listen Here:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7173778

I agree with the comment above on the reverb, and what you mentioned about volume variations, but other than that, you've got a great song. You do some great acoustic work my friend... keep it up.

Thanks so much for the feedback. You're totally right - the reverb was terrible. It's amazing how working on a song can dampen the effects of various things after so many listens. LOL. I fixed the reverb and some volume issues really quick. I will have to fix more when I get home around 5-6pm tonight.

With the reverb cuts, does it sound closer already? What would I need to do to fix the closeness of the everything?

ORIGINAL: Truckermusic

Basically ........I like your work here........I like the sound you are getting on that acoustic.......I am struggling to get a good sound myself........so good job there...
I am listening on ear buds so my judgemnet my be a little scewed.....
I think that your opening rhythm acoustic guitar is a Little choppy.....you straightened it out several measures into it and that part sounds good........I think that the Wah is a nice tastful addition..........your melodic line is good.........the volumes did not bother me as much as the balance of the instruments did........I think you carved out space for each rather well.......now just balance them a little more.......also your guitars sound too far in the background....bring them forward.......eq slightly off the top.....SLIGHTLY not a lot because you do not want to slose that nice airy ness of them.......after you bring the guitars forward a little then you will need to do the same with the drums..................

then let's have a noter listen.........
but all in all .......a very enjoyable composition to listen to...........

Cliff

Thanks for the feedback cliff! Give it another listen - I think I made lots of changes to improve it. I think that lousy over-saturation of reverb created the image that a lot of problems were present in the mix that really weren't.

As for the acoustic sound... I can give some tips

1. Use a good guitar ;)

2. Mic placement is important. Point it 6 or 8 or 10 inches away from the guitar, pointing towards the 12-14th fret. Don't make it too far because you don't want to pick up too much reverb - you will add that later. Make sure pointing away from the sound hole to avoid lots of bass frequency.

3. Buy elixer strings ;) Man, these strings are the best acoustic strings I have ever used. Nanoweb sound great pretty much "out of the box" with little EQ required. Polyweb is better for recording though because it doesn't make noises when you slide. So with polyweb, you need to EQ a lot more in the 2k, 5k and even 10k.

4. Use new strings for recordings. If they are dead - even coated ones that are kind of dead - just replace them.

5. Use a good mic. I use the Shure SM81, which is amazing for just 300 bucks. If you're using a junky mic, try this one. Also, don't use the mic filters - it sounds like trash ;) EQ afterwards.

6. Remember, junk in -> junk out. Try and get all these right so you have very little mixing work to do.

Hope that helps!

I only heard it after you tweaked it. Sounds good to me! I like what you did here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truckermusic

Basically ........I like your work here........I like the sound you are getting on that acoustic.......I am struggling to get a good sound myself........so good job there...
I am listening on ear buds so my judgemnet my be a little scewed.....
I think that your opening rhythm acoustic guitar is a Little choppy.....you straightened it out several measures into it and that part sounds good........I think that the Wah is a nice tastful addition..........your melodic line is good.........the volumes did not bother me as much as the balance of the instruments did........I think you carved out space for each rather well.......now just balance them a little more.......also your guitars sound too far in the background....bring them forward.......eq slightly off the top.....SLIGHTLY not a lot because you do not want to slose that nice airy ness of them.......after you bring the guitars forward a little then you will need to do the same with the drums..................

then let's have a noter listen.........
but all in all .......a very enjoyable composition to listen to...........

Cliff


Thanks for the feedback cliff! Give it another listen - I think I made lots of changes to improve it. I think that lousy over-saturation of reverb created the image that a lot of problems were present in the mix that really weren't.

As for the acoustic sound... I can give some tips

1. Use a good guitar ;)

2. Mic placement is important. Point it 6 or 8 or 10 inches away from the guitar, pointing towards the 12-14th fret. Don't make it too far because you don't want to pick up too much reverb - you will add that later. Make sure pointing away from the sound hole to avoid lots of bass frequency.

3. Buy elixer strings ;) Man, these strings are the best acoustic strings I have ever used. Nanoweb sound great pretty much "out of the box" with little EQ required. Polyweb is better for recording though because it doesn't make noises when you slide. So with polyweb, you need to EQ a lot more in the 2k, 5k and even 10k.

4. Use new strings for recordings. If they are dead - even coated ones that are kind of dead - just replace them.

5. Use a good mic. I use the Shure SM81, which is amazing for just 300 bucks. If you're using a junky mic, try this one. Also, don't use the mic filters - it sounds like trash ;) EQ afterwards.

6. Remember, junk in -> junk out. Try and get all these right so you have very little mixing work to do.

Hope that helps!

Ken
I took a second listen..........this is a much improved version over the one I heard yesterday........Instrumentation seems to be more up front..by reducing your reveb like you did it helped out a lot.........the question and answer between the acoustic and electric is more apparent and very enjoyable........good job.......

as far as the recording acoustic guitar....
i do have a pretty nice acoustic...it is a sepcial edition Takimine with stika spruce top with indian rosewood sides.........the sound hole rosetta has a wood inlay around it (they offer up new ones every year on this model) and it plays and sound really nice.....
Yes I do change strings for every recording....I use a light ga. phosper bronze D'addario set I think the ga is a 10 gauge..........never tried the coated type
the mike I have is a Rode NTK-1A (I think).......it's a large diaphram condenser type with a three position bass roll off switch, a three position pick up pattern switch and a Pad switch.....it is a very nice mike...........
I really think that it is my placement and the distance that are the factors I am struggling with........

but I thnk you for the tips.......

again.........very nice job on the work.........I should have a new one up on the board in a few weeks.........I'm in the middle of it right now........

Cliff

egervari,

Nice song and guitar work. Are you rolling off the low-end on the guitars (not bass)? If not, I'd suggest rolling off anything below 100 hz and lower. That will free up some space for the drums and bass to sit in.

Very well done song, just seemed to have a bit of the muddiness in that lower register that I think you can clear up pretty easily.

Thanks for sharing,
Tom

ORIGINAL: tyacko

egervari,

Nice song and guitar work. Are you rolling off the low-end on the guitars (not bass)? If not, I'd suggest rolling off anything below 100 hz and lower. That will free up some space for the drums and bass to sit in.

Very well done song, just seemed to have a bit of the muddiness in that lower register that I think you can clear up pretty easily.

Thanks for sharing,
Tom

LOL. Man, I am laughing so hard!

Tom, you got a great ear. What happened was that I did roll of 78hz off the rhythm guitars... BUT, I forgot to engage the HP Filter button - it was set to OFF! HAHahaha...

You have a good ear man. Rolling off the acoustics is an "auto" thing for me and I made an error. Totally my bad. I'm so glad that you caught that!

I'm uploaded a remix as we speak ;) Thanks for your kind words about the song!

Hey egervari

I spend so many hours at the mix desk that my ears become so
well i dont know what it is. Even a little small click or something in
a song will stick out at me.

Things annoy me that dont other people. I really really do like
this tune. with that said I'll be blunt.

The performance sounds like real pro's but the timing sounds like
a garage band. In my ears it don't make sense. I ask myself, how can
this be? These guys are such pro's at their instruments.

It might be that the exitment is dominating the control over sticking
to the beat. I personaly have this problem with my vocals. I either
sing to far in front of the beat and it sounds way choppy or I try and
adjust it and it sounds like I've had way too many beers.

Maybe something else is making me hear this. It might need smoothing
out the attack. I love compression when its done well but I dont like
hearing comppresion in itself so I'm not advocationing compression.

I try to make first time assumptions on rating a tune or mix. I have found this when it comes to my stuff:

I'll spend 8 hours at the desk mixing or mastering and go man thats it.
the next day it absolutly "sucks" Why? Two reasons. the next day I here
it for what it is. after 8 hours of listening to it i here it as how it has
become.

I don't mind so much being a critiquer for someone because I slam
myself into the gound when it comes to this. I'm the first to say
my own work stinks!

I really has a passion for engineering mixing and mastering and producing. At 54 I've come a long way so maybe my ears are at least
somewhat trained.

Its hard for me to listen to my stuff for what it can be but easy to
listen to others for what it can be. I dont know why. Maybe its because I'm not so involved with others stuff.

Or maybe its because a third party hears it differrently. Maybe its
because i spend so much time producing etc.

But again I really do like it. I could't really say what might tweak it
out of what I'm hearing without more reaserach into it.

I'll try working on it here in my studio and see what I come up with.
That way I can find out if I'm any good at tweaking someone else's
stuff.

Jimmy

Ken,

I really like your stuff. You had posted a sample of acoustic guitar on another thread and I thought that was great. I like this but not as much. I think one of the problems for me was that there were too many things going on in the beginning. I wasn't sure of the identity of the song until about a minute in. I'm sure this is just me. I do have to agree with Jimmy on the timing issues though I wouldn't have said "garage band" :)

Still, a good song, I look forward to hearing more of your songs, you have a nice sense of melody and arrangement.

ORIGINAL: jimmyman


hey egevary

I went back and listened a second time.

I counted 1 2 3 4 Like counting to the beat. The instruments were
playing ahead of my count. I sped up my count and the instruments were
behind the beat now. I couldn't lock my count into the beat of the song.
it isnt at any particular place its all throughout

I might know what it is. it aint attack that sounds very good

With four beats per measure you can rush things a bit for say the first
two beats. Waiting for the begining of the next measure to start
"rushing per say" is the hardest thing to do because that "Waiting"
also cause problems.

Is your mix done or can it be recorded? This is a facter. If it can be
rerecorded try this.let the third beat of every measure sustain.
go easy on the third beat.

Oh no wait a minut! I figured it out

Your playing the guitar with a strong 1'8th note triplet feel and the drummers is playing with a four four feel. the drummer sometimes trys to adjust to your triplet feel but doesnt stick with it and its clashing.

Thats what i'm hearing its not timing after all. well in a way it is

jimmy

Wow, you got a great ear. I still don't notice it... I've been listening very intently with headphones. My brain is different though - I'm a natural top-down thinker... I am great at seeing the big picture, or conducting strategy. Even when I'm in social settings, I am not really aware of the details in the environment, but I get a good intuitive sense of it. This is probably the reason why I am absorbed in the overall sound and not the details of the timing.

The drum timing is intentional. I can obviously go back and re-program it (this is not a real drummer - this is ezdrummer with the nashville kit. I guess it's good that you didn't know!). The off timing with the snare gave it energy and movement and feel to me.

Now about my leads and the waiting period before a new 'chunk' - I can totally see how that might be a problem. The lead is not 1 giant take like the rhythm section.

Honestly, I pieced together the melody in a very ad-hoc fashion, mainly because before I start, I don't know how it's going to come out. So, the melody is recorded in 30-40 second chunks and there are about 4 or 5 of them total. I constantly try new things and record them all and move them around like a puzzle.

I took great to make sure the mic position and my guitar were in the exact same spot for all takes. Now that I have a melody, I just have to memorize the entire line and re-record it. Do you think it would really make the song that much better?

Thanks for really looking into it. You definitely have a much better sense of music than I do. I'll be perfectly honest - I don't know hardly any music theory, I never took lessons, I learned entirely by ear... hell, I couldn't even really tell you the timings, patterns, notes or anything that I'm doing. I just go by feeling and intuition...

I do have to agree with Jimmy on the timing issues though I wouldn't have said "garage band" :)

Man I knew I shouldn't have said garage band! When I post something
you can tell me to not quit my day job :)

and masking the drums and bass

Have I gone deaf? What bass? Call me an ear docter!
Bass frequencys or bass guitar?

Again I think a lot of this song and its potenteil. Getting an acoustic
to sound this good is an acomplishment in itself.

One of the things that's really easy to like about you is your passion to make everything better. I see this in your posts in the techniques section. All you have to do now is sift through all the advice and determine which changes accomplish this goal and which ones compromise the essence of the tune. I'm certainly no expert and share your quest for improvement.

Hey Tcaylor

That is very well said.

ORIGINAL: jimmyman

I do have to agree with Jimmy on the timing issues though I wouldn't have said "garage band" :)

Man I knew I shouldn't have said garage band! When I post something
you can tell me to not quit my day job :)

and masking the drums and bass

Have I gone deaf? What bass? Call me an ear docter!
Bass frequencys or bass guitar?

Again I think a lot of this song and its potenteil. Getting an acoustic
to sound this good is an acomplishment in itself.

Thanks for the acknowledgment about the acoustic sound.

I think I'm just starting to notice the timing issues that you are referring to... and now it's annoying me.

You know what I think happened? I think Sonar slightly put them in the wrong spot or something. You see, when Ozone is engaged and I press record, the timing is WAY off - Sonar isn't compensating at all.

So, I have to turn ozone off in the master bus, save the project, close sonar, and then open up the project again. This way ozone is saved to bypass when the project is opened fresh. Only then will recording work fine.

However, maybe there is a much smaller latency issue after recording? Hrm... I wonder. Sonar is reporting a latency of 10msec, but it's grayed out (the FA-66 ASIO driver is pretty much taking all of my options out of Sonar).

It also could be Bit Defender 2009 (An anti virus program). Would that interfere with Sonar or my ASIO driver a bit? I just recently installed that.

I should just try moving my leads slightly back little-by-little to see if I can get it to match up. It's kind of tough to reason out because sometimes my notes are purposely on the half-beat.

I will really look into this and report back! Thanks so much for the comments!

I solved the timing problem. It's not a recording problem at all - it's actually a memory problem, or a bug.

I was just remixing an old project. I'm making a cd of my music to give to some people on Christmas. Anyway, I started soloing tracks, fixing the EQ and stuff. I did that for the entire song.

THEN, I unsoloed everything and just played it - and BAM! - entire thing is out of time! Holy smokes Batman!

I closed the project, reloaded it... and guess what? The entire thing is in time again. I think I exported the song on soundclick when I had it open for awhile, and "something" bad happened in the meantime to mess up the timing. I think playing with Ozone settings has something to do with it. Or the convulution reverb plugins. Or ezdrummer ;)

Man, now that I know... it's okay, but I wanna know what the heck changed my system to behave this way.