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Bren Gun
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2012/08/28 15:35:17 (permalink)

Back to Sonar

Hi all, it's been a long time since I've been here. Some may remember me. I would certainly some of you if I'd see your message :) Having used another DAW for a long time, I have been looking once again at Sonar, one of my previous favourites and am trying the demo of Sonar X1 which seems at least very interesting. 

It seems very fluid, but I still need to get used to it during the demo period a bit before I decide to go for it, so I have some questions that I hope you can properly and clearly answer. 
Even if I manage to get used to it somewhat, and even if I will like it, I may not go for it due to whatever reason(s). As I am used to a certain way of working, here are some questions: 

1. are there keyboard shortcut presets that are like the standard shortcut schemes from other DAWs? 

2. what is the performance like regarding system resource use? (I have checked it and it seems nice so far, but maybe you have some useful insight to share.) (I don't like it if a DAW is too heavy.) 

3. to set up virtual instruments seems like an annoying chore; how must one take care of it? (In my previous DAW I did not have to think much about it, but here it seems I have to do more so-called "under the hood work", and I remember that this was also the case in the past.) 

4. how do I create an empty MIDI clip / object on a track? 

5. is there still a notation view and editor? 

6. what is the notation view and/or editor like? Has it improved and to what degree? 

7/ how is the integration of the notation view and/or editor and how is the cooperation between it/them and the rest of the DAW (for instance with the MIDI)? Additionally, I write to you that I am one who can work in different ways, but usually I compose music using notation, MIDI and audio. 

 Thanks for reading.

post edited by Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk] - 2012/08/28 20:08:32
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    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/28 20:18:30 (permalink)
    Bren,

    Did some quick editing in your post to make it easier to read and answer ...

    1. Yes, SONAR ships with keyboard presets for many of the other popular DAWs out there. And, of course, you can customize just about any keyboard shortcut as needed, as well.

    2. This question sounds a bit subjective, but I can say that SONAR is x64 and fully multi-threaded so it will use all available RAM on an x64 system and will use all available threads/ cores, no matter how many you have.

    3. Actually, using instruments is arguably easier to do in SONAR than in any other DAW. Simply drag and drop desired plugin from the Browser to the Track View. That's it. Associated tracks are created automatically and the synth is ready to be played.

    4. In SONAR, MIDI clips only exist when there is data of some kind present in them. If you wanted an empty clip, for whatever reason, you could create a MIDI clip of a note that doesn't trigger anything, or some CC data that is sent to a value that does nothing. Then, you could drag the clip to the Browser to save it, save the location of the clip in the Browser's location list, and easily recall said 'empty' clip whenever you want.

    5. Yes, the Staff View is still in SONAR X1 and the upcoming SONAR X2.

    6. The Staff View has remained pretty much the same, AFAIK (not a Staff View expert). However, in SONAR X1 Producer Expanded and in the upcoming SONAR X2 we've added Music XML export.

    7. This is kind of an open ended question, but I'll do my best to answer. Any MIDI clip can be opened in the Staff View, and anything that's been written or edited in the Staff View can be opened in the Piano Roll View, Step Sequencer, etc. Its just an editing view in SONAR, so data is never 'locked' to it. 

    Additionally, in SONAR X2 we've added a handle to all clips which will open whatever desired editor you want by default when double clicking on it. Each clip can have its own default editor, and each editor adds a unique icon to said clip so you know what editor you have it set to open in, although you can change it and go between editors at any time by changing this selection on the clip.

    HTH!

    Seth
    #2
    stevec
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/28 22:00:07 (permalink)
    Additionally, in SONAR X2 we've added a handle to all clips which will open whatever desired editor you want by default when double clicking on it. Each clip can have its own default editor, and each editor adds a unique icon to said clip so you know what editor you have it set to open in, although you can change it and go between editors at any time by changing this selection on the clip.

     
    Nice...  that sounds like it could be a very useful feature. 
     

    SteveC
    https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
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    SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors;
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    #3
    Linear Phase
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/28 22:51:09 (permalink)
    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
    ]

    3. Actually, using instruments is arguably easier to do in SONAR than in any other DAW. Simply drag and drop desired plugin from the Browser to the Track View. That's it. Associated tracks are created automatically and the synth is ready to be played.



    Actually, I have been totally enamored by this...   For example, one of my favorite synths/rewire gizmos has 32 outs.. ( or about 32, as I can't remember the exact number right now. )

    So anyways..  Sonar is the only DAW that I have seen do this:  I load the synth, "every in/out, track, and routing," is all done automatically for me...

    I don't even think they have this feature in NASA..  I mean..  The convenience of something like this is, "totally radical"


    I have used Ableton, Cubase, Reason, Reaper, and Pro Tools ( last time I checked, arguably years and years ago )..  I know DAWs that simply do not do this, "auto-create routing/tracks thing."

    And it is an awesome feature!



    too many lasers...






    Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!

    #4
    Bren Gun
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/29 11:08:34 (permalink)
    EDIT: sorry if the text looks messed up. The forum tools didn't allow me to fix it, although I tried.

    EDIT2: alright, following the advice given, I've used the "break line" to adapt the message for you to read :)

    Thanks, Seth, for your respone.

    Regarding:
    1. Nice, although I discovered in the demo that not all standard key bindings are set. For instance, I still had to press P to reach the Preferences and had to manually change it to something else.

    2. Hmmm, I must write that it is perhaps not subjective. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "subjective". I actually meant the absolute objective resource use it performs. Suppose there are two computers, one strong and the other stronger, and the user performs the same tasks with both of them. In both cases, according to the way Sonar is programmed, Sonar requires the same power whatever the hardware, and on the weaker computer less resources should be left compared to the stronger computer.

    I still have some questions. I haven't seen any of the following things in the demo. Perhaps they are present in the full and updated version and/or maybe I simply didn't notice their presence?

    8. is it possible to glue clips (audio to audio and MIDI to MIDI) to each other? (I split an audio clip and wanted to glue it them back to each other.)

    9. is there a search function to quickly seek certain actions in the key binding window? (For instance, I could type in 'Snap' and the search function would show me the next command or action containing the word 'Snap' such as 'Snap to Grid' (which I could not find, by the way, and the appearing tooltip doesn't show the shortcut either).

    10. is it possible to change both bindings for keyboard and mouse in combination? (The key binding presets are not complete. I would like to use Ctrl + Scrollwheel to zoom in and out, while Scrollwheel should help navigate in time forwards and backwards.)

    11. is it possible to quickly standardize the FX routing on the mixer? (At the bottom there is the routing of Compressor, EQ and Tube Sat. I often want to have EQ first, then Compressor, and don't want to have to change it for every channel manually nor for all (new) projects.

    12. the '-' (minus) sign on the number keypad: it seems as if Sonar doesn't accept the '-' sign for use with values if from the keypad on the right. It must be from the '-' key more to the middle.

    13. is it possible to fill in values on the plugin channel strip? (For the fader it works, but for the rest there doesn't seem to be any possibility.)

    14. is it possible in the updated non-demo version to double-click a channel on the mixer to show/hide ProChannel?

    15. is it possible in the updated non-demo version to have smoother visual scrolling for the mixer?

    16. is it possile to toggle the mixer/console view (or any view)? I assume this should be possible by undocking the mixer. Hmmm.

    17. is it possible to quickly toggle that during playback the screen doesn't move along and does move along? (I want to toggle it myself, so I can have free movement during playback.)


    Pff, what a big program! There are many possibilities and things to check out! :) Oh, I hope I am not overloading you! Sorry if that's the case. I am kind of picky about these things, hehehe :)
    post edited by Bren Gun - 2012/08/30 11:14:22
    #5
    bapu
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/29 13:37:37 (permalink)
    Bren Gun


    EDIT: sorry if the text looks messed up. The forum tools didn't allow me to fix it, although I tried. 

    Either install IE Tab (Firefox add-on) and use it for the forum, get FireFox 5.0, use Chrome or enter the actual string
     <br> 

    to get line breaks.


    #6
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/29 14:39:37 (permalink)
    Remember in the demo, not all the features are activated to work as a fully functional DAW. 

    They shut some things off and do not include all the bells and whistles..... 

    You get them all however, in the fully featured DAW you buy. 

    BTW: I use the browser Chrome for this site. 



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    #7
    Jimbo 88
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/29 16:09:02 (permalink)
    again with the staff view?   ....I'm not sayin'

    --I'm just sayin' 
    #8
    Jimbo 88
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/29 16:25:40 (permalink)
    Your second post is really hard to read,  but i'm a going to give it go.

    2) Sonar handles computer resources very well.  It's speed in mixing down and exporting wavs, omfs, etc...saves my butt everyday.

    8)  Glueing clips back together is a breeze ("Bounce to Clips") 
    9)  your keybinding question is hard for me to answer.  I use Keybindings a ton and love 'em.  I label my computer keyboard. 
    10)  Sonar now has ProChannel.  The routing/saving of effects is very good and easy to do.
    11)  there are multiple ways to hide/show Prochannel
    16) Sonar now has "Screen Sets"  Set up and save multiple screen sets and you can toggle back and forth between different views quickly all day long.
    17)  Toggle between following the the screen and not is done by hitting "Scroll Lock" 

    The other questions,  i'm not sure

    post edited by Jimbo 88 - 2012/08/29 16:36:45
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    pbognar
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    Re:Back to Sonar 2012/08/29 17:23:24 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88


    again with the staff view?   ....I'm not sayin'

    --I'm just sayin' 


    Wanted:  Married middle aged man looking for X2 Staff View love.  No need for miracles, just some gentle fixes / improvements. 
    #10
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