Bad Mix vs Mastering

There is a basic principle that spans all engineering disciplines, which is that the earlier in the process you get it right, the better. Imagine the cost of making an automotive design change when the car's still on paper versus a global recall.
 
It's harder to fix a badly-recorded track or a sloppy performance through editing than it is to just re-record it. It's harder to fix such a track in the mix, which is why "we'll fix it in the mix" became an ongoing insider joke. (Frank Zappa once quipped "we'll fix it in the shrinkwrap".) And of course a bad mix can't be saved in the mastering stage any more than a weak record can be improved by playing it on a high-end audiophile system.
 
That said, I'm not sure your sample track illustrates the principle very convincingly. The "bad mix" simply isn't nearly bad enough. It's actually not bad.
 

bitflipper
There is a basic principle that spans all engineering disciplines, which is that the earlier in the process you get it right, the better....

Spot on. AT&T (well, Bell Labs), did a study decades ago on the cost of fixing software bugs.
 
Crudely stated:
the cost to repair a defect in high level design is X
the cost to repair the same defect in low level design is 10X
the cost to repair the same defect in manufacturing is 100X
the cost to repair the same defect in the field is 1000X
 
My experience has proven those orders of magnitude to be pretty close to real world.
 
VW is going to find this out. The hard way.

bitflipper
There is a basic principle that spans all engineering disciplines, which is that the earlier in the process you get it right, the better. Imagine the cost of making an automotive design change when the car's still on paper versus a global recall.
 
It's harder to fix a badly-recorded track or a sloppy performance through editing than it is to just re-record it. It's harder to fix such a track in the mix, which is why "we'll fix it in the mix" became an ongoing insider joke. (Frank Zappa once quipped "we'll fix it in the shrinkwrap".) And of course a bad mix can't be saved in the mastering stage any more than a weak record can be improved by playing it on a high-end audiophile system.

I totally Agree

bitflipper
 That said, I'm not sure your sample track illustrates the principle very convincingly. The "bad mix" simply isn't nearly bad enough. It's actually not bad.
 

On that one i do not agree, i have heard better mixes most of the time
but also some few worse..

that's correct and i know that, and luckily its not my mix 

I just got the file from my friend,and he asked me politely " can you master it for me ? "
...so i did.

If this had been a paying customer, and i had a name within mixing and mastering
i would point out the problems, and send em back to redo the whole mix.

Two things would may happen then

1. They would have done what i said, and come back with a better mix
2. They would go to someone else, and i would never see them again

Nothing to see here...

Yepp the first part is the original mix only ( not mastered )

The problem with the song is to much variation in the track's and an overall "dull" mix

some problems to point out :

1. to much bass, cluttered and boxy low end and overall dull mix
2. the filtered sharp sounding synth behind the vocals and the placement of it ( should be more panned as well )
3. lack of details in the mid range, in some track's
4. way more present high end in the drums, compared to rest of the track's
5. unbalanced vocal, some places the vocal is more upfront

to mention something..


EDIT: Made a new Master
In this last " mastering " i made it simple using only :

1. Channel tools to add a tad of more side signal, and adjust the left channel by -1 db
2. Prochannel EQ
3. Concrete limiter

Thats all ....

What i have learned, the more you stack up with plugins like EQ's and so forth
you most likely will " loose " overall control over the sound and probably mess it up more.

When you take away ( attenuate ) frequencies to adjust the overall EQ, other frequencies will boost
that is an issue when mastering a stereo track, it wont help to attenuate those as well, then you will
end up at point zero again.

Less is more :
When mastering.. keep it to a minimum, listen and adjust carefully
be sure to take breaks, and rest your ears....
if you don't get the sound you want at the final, start fresh and do it all over again.

I would love to use an MB compressor before the limiter to tame some frequencies
but cakewalks MB compressor, just did not help out in this case...

Well i am not quite satisfied, there's to much bright end in the master on the drums
but what can you expect, of an unbalanced mix....

As said by others, do it right in the Mix to begin with, or you will get trouble at the " mastering stage "

At last, the best way is to hire a great Mastering studio to do the JOB, they have all the best hardware equipment
and gear for the job , as well well great treated room and several monitors and have great experience.

If you cant afford that, well maybe the way is to go with hardware DSP cards and UAD plugins
But you need a good room to mix in as well, and be sure to know what you're doing and what to do, and not to do.

Hope this is helpful to someone..

I am finding too, that what the experienced forum members are sharing is true.  Though the following may appear as if I am being obtuse, I think it is another example of the general bent of this thread.  The University of Strategic Highway Research Council found similarly the same truth. 
 
https://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/publications/PDF_files/SHRP-H-320.pdf
 
Scroll to page three.  I have copied this and placed it above my monitor.
 
I know, weird, but I have always been an ideator, though not one of popular merit.  So although you may find this of no use to your particular issue, the concept seems to be universal, at least to me.
 
Jesse

mhh.. what can i say, i tried to mix after a spectrum analyzer with M/S signal
that went very.. very bad, even if i used a Demo of Fabfilter PRO Q 2 ... Duhhh..

The clue is to use your ears and make it simple, and that worked... forget the meters XD

In this last " master " i used :

1. Channel tools to add a tad side signal, and adjust the left channel by -1 db
2. Prochannel EQ
3. Concrete limiter

Image :