Balanced and unbalanced cables

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silvercn
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2011/12/18 20:40:13 (permalink)

Balanced and unbalanced cables

I need a refresher on how to really tell a cable is balanced or unbalanced. Q- are 1/4 " cables by default unbalanced and XLRs balanced - or not neccissarily?? The other part of my query: what about hardware outputs....do the same rules apply or to we have to consult the manual / specs to know if the outputs are bal or unbalanced...
 
Thanks !!!
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    spacealf
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/18 21:23:42 (permalink)
    Balanced 1/4" cables have 3 parts, tip, ring, sleeve, while guitar cords and synth cords (at least mine) are unbalanced with 2 parts, tip, sleeve or hot, ground where balanced is I think, called hot, cold, ground. XLRs usually are all balanced unless one of the wires is not connected, which would be odd.

    consult the manuals for hardware outputs. My synth is unbalanced but can go into a balanced input, and balanced outputs can go into a unbalanced input, but most of pro-audio connections will be balanced for the hardware, it is only the guitar cord and synth outputs (not MIDI) that are unbalanced.

    Home consumer electronics are all unbalanced and -10dBu output. Most pro-audio will have either a switch for -10dBu output or the regular usual pro output of +4dBu.
    Most pro stuff goes way higher for total output nowadays, like up to +24dBu for peaks or even so higher. Some will be lower. Depends. Checking the manual is always the best thing to do.

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    fireberd
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/19 07:08:23 (permalink)
    A two wire cable can be shielded (audio) or unshielded (speaker).  Or you can't tell a cable by it's outside jacket. 

    There are both two wire (unbalanced) and three wire (balanced) audio cables that have 1/8" (3.5mm) or 1/4" plugs.  Balanced audio cables can also be used in unbalanced circuits - in that case only the Tip (hot) and Shield (ground) are used - the "ring" connection is not used.    

    Standard XLR cables are balanced audio.


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    Beagle
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/19 08:30:16 (permalink)
    balanced 1/4" are the same thing as "stereo cables," unbalanced 1/4" are the same thing as "instrument cables."

    all XLR are balanced cables


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    drewfx1
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/19 14:13:25 (permalink)
    A couple of minor technical points:
    spacealf

    Home consumer electronics are all unbalanced and -10dBu output. Most pro-audio will have either a switch for -10dBu output or the regular usual pro output of +4dBu. 
    Most pro stuff goes way higher for total output nowadays, like up to +24dBu for peaks or even so higher. Some will be lower. Depends. Checking the manual is always the best thing to do.
    The "pro level" is +4dBu, but "consumer" is generally considered to be -10 dBV, not dBu. This is important if you want to reference the levels against each other (in either volts or dB's), but if our purposes here are just to differentiate between "pro" and "consumer", it's a purely technical point.

    beagle

    balanced 1/4" are the same thing as "stereo cables,"

    The cables themselves are indeed the same 1/4" TRS cables, but just to be absolutely clear to everyone, "balanced" and "stereo" are different things.


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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/19 14:27:33 (permalink)
    Not to quibble, but there is no such thing as a balanced cable.


    There are balanced circuits and the proper cable for connecting one up is a shielded twisted pair... although the shielding may not actually be necessary if the CMMR is really good. :-)


    Cables used for stereo transmission can either be simple shielded pairs (unbalanced circuit), or a shielded pair of twisted pairs (balanced circuits).


    The connectors don't really tell you much about the cable they are connected to... it is useful to regard the cable and connectors as a system.



    best regards,
    mike


    post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/12/20 13:51:38


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    gibsongs
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/20 08:26:29 (permalink)
      Incorrectly wired cables can cause probems. A investment in a cheap test box can save hours of troubleshooting down the road: http://www.musiciansfrien...tester/150930000000000 take care, gs
    #7
    fireberd
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/20 09:03:51 (permalink)
    I have one of those Behringer (copy) testers.  It works good but the documentation that came with it is useless.  I carry it in my steel guitar seat, it comes in handy on stage when someone has or thinks they have a bad cable.  Being an ex amp tech they all come to me when they have a problem.

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    batsbrew
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    Re:Balanced and unbalanced cables 2011/12/20 10:27:45 (permalink)
    TRS

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