amateur_keys
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Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
I need to connect an unbalanced 1/4in output from my mixer to a balanced 1/4in input on my Echo MiaMIDI soundcard. Given that I don't want to solder fancy special cables or I don't want to buy some fancy Line Shifter thingy, should I use a balanced cable, an unbalanced cable, or does it even matter? thanks, -dave
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wogg
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 13:49:27
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The output device should determine the cable type. Use an unbalanced. Here's why... If the output jack is a two prong variety, it will leave the ring connection open. That will cause a balanced cable to have one unconnected wire running from the -input on the Mia all the way down the cable and sitting unterminated at the other end. That is a potential input noise source. Chances are the noise added will be small to none, but it's always better to terminate inputs not being used so best practice applies. A unbalanced cable will connect the -input on the MIA to ground, neatly terminating the input and eliminating that as a source for input noise.
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inmazevo
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 13:56:06
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There would be no purpose to using balanced cables in a mixed environment (one balanced and one unbalanced piece of gear). In fact, as I've been researching this (in search of a noiseless studio), I've found a few places that say specifically NOT to use balanced cables when connecting between a balanced and unbalanced connection... use unbalanced instead (EMU is the source here... in the 1616 manual which can be downloaded from their site). Perhaps someone more experienced than I could explain if and why (I'm curious myself)? Here's what EMU says about it: "WARNING: Do NOT use balanced audio cables when connecting balanced outputs to unbalanced inputs. Doing so can increase noise level and introduce hum. Use balanced cables ONLY if you are connecting balanced inputs to balanced outputs." They seem to yell about it, so... In any event, as balanced cables need both sides to be balanced to work, whether it is dangerous or not is mostly academic... there wouldn't be anything to gain by using balanced cables in that setup. Get well shielded, unbalanced cables (probably for less money). Edited to add: I see wogg has given the info I was wondering about... thanks to wogg for that.
post edited by inmazevo - 2006/01/24 14:07:18
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Abelardo
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 14:00:37
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amateur_keys
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 15:13:39
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Thanks for the great responses. While I knew it was 'okay' to use either cable to make the connection, I couldn't find anything written on what 'should' be used. Ya'll answered that very question. thanks again, -dave
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ohhey
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 15:24:54
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ORIGINAL: amateur_keys I need to connect an unbalanced 1/4in output from my mixer to a balanced 1/4in input on my Echo MiaMIDI soundcard. Given that I don't want to solder fancy special cables or I don't want to buy some fancy Line Shifter thingy, should I use a balanced cable, an unbalanced cable, or does it even matter? thanks, -dave If you need a converter ART makes one called the CleanBox that is no that expensive. Some times you just have to try all the combinations to see what sounds best and has the lowest noise. For example my old Mackie 24.8 mixer had both balanced and unbalanced outputs but for some unknown reason the unbalanced outputs sounded better. There was no technical reason why that should have been true it just was. So I like to try all the available connections just to see what happens. In theory the unbalanced connections should not sound any different but they almost always pick up more noise (hiss, hum, etc) then balanced ones. In fact that is exactly what balanced lines are for is to cancel out noise, has nothing to do with sound quality other then that. Check with the vendor of each piece of gear to see what they suggest, on my Lynx card it has all balanced connections but Lynx has instructions on how to wire unbalanced cables to them, so you don't need a converter.
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seriousfun
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 15:42:50
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ORIGINAL: ohhey ... for some unknown reason the unbalanced outputs sounded better. There was no technical reason why that should have been true it just was. ... That's because they used an inexpensive, noisy OpAmp to balance the signal. (pardon the spam) I sell the world's best sounding balancing box, but it's $495 (for six channels), and it took extensive design work to make this sound good. There are many proponents of a fully single-ended (un-balanced) audio and power flow in a recording studio. The real problem, though, is when you need to mix and match un-balanced and balanced audio.
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micromusic
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 15:47:41
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When going from unbalanced out to a balanced input, use an unbalanced cable like has been suggested here. When going from a balanced out to a unbalanced input, I would suggest NOT using an unbalanced cable. Most manufacturers recomend leaving the negative unconnected (on the outputs) instead of shorting it to ground. A pretty good explanation from Rane: The SM 82 offers balanced main outputs only. This means that you may use them as either balanced or unbalanced, the choice being made by the way the connectors are wired. It’s a good idea to always use a TRS or stereo connector in the outputs no matter which mode you are using. If a “mono†connector is used, inserting it into the output will short the ring (–) to ground and could conceivably cause a small amount of distortion to be placed on the tip (+). While this is not destructive, it may be significant enough to be audible. Balancing therefore requires that both tip (+) and ring (–) be wired to the following device. Unbalanced requires only tip and sleeve connected, leaving the unused ring open.
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dcastle
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RE: Balanced vs Unbalanced cable question
2006/01/24 16:51:27
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When going from a balanced out to a unbalanced input, I would suggest NOT using an unbalanced cable. Most manufacturers recomend leaving the negative unconnected (on the outputs) instead of shorting it to ground. A pretty good explanation from Rane: This is not true for impedance balanced outputs, like Mackie, or true transformer outputs. In these cases you want to short the unused output to ground. So, the point of all this is you have to read the manual (what a concept) for all your equipment to know how to use it. Regards, David
post edited by dcastle - 2006/01/24 16:55:55
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