Ebosell
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Basic synthesizer setup
I'd like to get my son (age 16) set up with a basic PC-based synthesizer and recording setup. But I can't figure out if I need to purchase Sonar X2 Essential plus the Rapture add-in, or if there is a standalone version of Rapture we can use instead. Can someone clarify? Thanks! Eric
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scook
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:16:33
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Rapture installs as both a VST plugin for use in a DAW, such as SONAR X2 Essential and a standalone version which you can play outside the DAW with a MIDI keyboard.
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mleghorn
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:31:05
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I recommend you download savihost (search google for it), which you can use to load up an instance of a software synthesizer. Also, there are many excellent free software synthesizers. My favorite one is Tyrell.
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Ebosell
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:40:15
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To record, though, I would need to have Sonar X2 Essential in addition to Rapture? And (sorry): what is VST?
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onebadbug
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:46:12
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Some of my music http://indiemusicworks.com/OBB/ Temporary machine: Sonar X2 Trial, Asus G74SX notebook, i7 2630QM, Win7 Ult., 8Gb Ram, Realtek HD Audio, Motu Express XT USB midi interface. My studio machine: Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, Sony Vaio RC110G, Pentium D 3.2 Ghz, 4 Gb Ram, 4-1Tb Raptor Sata HD's, Yam DS2416 sound card, 2 Yam XT44 A/D expansions, Motu Express XT paralell midi interface, Yam AW4416 studio Mixer.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:50:40
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VST stands for Virtual Studio Technology and is used to refer to both plugin (Virtual FX) and virtual synths although they are more correctly VSTi (the i standing for instrument) The VST has become a standard of sorts and was created by Steinberg (Cubase) I'm sure someone will give a more accurate in-depth explanation shortly* but it gets used to generically mean a virtual effect or synth. *Edit. Someone already has.
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Ebosell
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:51:13
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Ebosell
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 14:57:26
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I see. A basic recording setup will require: DAW software (may include some VSTs) Like Sonar X2 Essentials, or Savihost. VST synth plug-in: Rapture, Tyrell Midi instrument (e.g., keyboard) Is there any other hardware I might need? I've never used the MIDI system on my old Kurzweil PC-88...how does it connect to the PC? There's no MIDI jack on the PC.
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beerfridge
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:01:36
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I use a USB to midi converter for my older stuff - check amazon
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scook
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:02:48
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onebadbug
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:04:47
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you will need to add a small/cheap 'midi interface' (google it) and a pair of midi cables as well so you can send midi signals to or from the computer and to or from the device.
Some of my music http://indiemusicworks.com/OBB/ Temporary machine: Sonar X2 Trial, Asus G74SX notebook, i7 2630QM, Win7 Ult., 8Gb Ram, Realtek HD Audio, Motu Express XT USB midi interface. My studio machine: Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, Sony Vaio RC110G, Pentium D 3.2 Ghz, 4 Gb Ram, 4-1Tb Raptor Sata HD's, Yam DS2416 sound card, 2 Yam XT44 A/D expansions, Motu Express XT paralell midi interface, Yam AW4416 studio Mixer.
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scook
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:13:32
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You might also want to consider a small external audio USB interface instead of using your PC's internal sound card. Many also have standard MIDI in/out connections. As a rule you will get better results with a dedicated audio interface that relying on the PC's internal audio.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:16:10
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A half decent audio interface is a good idea as well, some will combine the MIDI interface with it. I personally use a firewire mixer so I'm probably not the best person to make any recommendations on that front. Welcome to the world of DAW recording- there's always something to spend money on.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:17:17
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How come everyone's typing quicker than me tonight, must be the lager effect.
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Rooftree
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:23:10
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Dang, you guys are fast!!! Here's my reply which duplicates some of what the fast typers have already covered. :) Your son is lucky to have a dad with such good taste and generosity! I remember when I bought my first synth. I paid for it with my own money, but my dad went along with me to buy it second-hand from a guy in a sketchy part of town. Times sure have changed! I don't see any reason for you to get Savihost. Your needs are simple and straightforward, so there's no reason to mess with specialized software utilities. You'll need the following: DAW software (X2 Essentials) Audio interface. A basic sound card serves the same purpose, but a DAW is so demanding that you'll suffer if you use a regular sound card. MIDI interface. You need this so the note data (but not the sound) from your PC-88 can go into the computer. Many audio interfaces also have MIDI capability. Your best bet will be to buy a single audio/MIDI interface. I have the Edirol UA-25EX and it works great for me. Virtual instruments. You'll get a bunch of these with whatever DAW you buy. Rapture is really nice and I believe it's still on sale. The LE version of Rapture (included with various versions of Sonar in the past) won't allow you to save your custom sounds, so I'd recommend that you go with the full, regular version. Most of the time you'll run your virtual instruments from inside of the DAW. If you don't want to fire up the DAW program, some virtual instruments will include a stand-alone application that can be run outside of the DAW program. This isn't really that important for a beginner.
post edited by Rooftree - 2012/11/29 15:35:20
Sonar X2 Producer : Win 7 Pro 64 bit : i7-930 : 6GB RAM : Edirol UA-25EX DimPro : Minimoog V : Lounge Lizard Prophet 08 : Juno-60 : Odyssey : CS-30 : TR-606 : Korg 01W
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:25:03
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Ebosell I'd like to get my son (age 16) set up with a basic PC-based synthesizer and recording setup. But I can't figure out if I need to purchase Sonar X2 Essential plus the Rapture add-in, or if there is a standalone version of Rapture we can use instead. Can someone clarify? Thanks! Eric My son just turned 16 last week, so this touches some papa nerves for me in what you are looking to do for your son. It is really nice to see a parent caring enough to do the research into doing something like this. I think you and your son will find lots and lots of help here in this forum, we are a community of folks who often go to pretty good lengths ti help each other, so post your questions, do the tutorials, watch the YouTube clips, and this can hopefully ignite a passion in your son for the endless possibilities for creativity and expression that music offer. Here is a link to the Cakewalk Features page for X2 Essentials, which lists the components that you would get with purchase. It is really a lot of good stuff for the minor investment that it is. The link: http://cakewalk.com/products/SONAR/X2-Essential/ So, if you pick up that software, and buy a midi to USB adapter, as someone had mentioned, you could use your existing keyboard to trigger sounds in the computer-based synthesizers that come with X2 Essentials. There are I believe 11 such instruments that you would get with X2 Essentials. We tend to call computer-based synthesizers 'soft synths' for short, or plugins, although plugins would also include things like computer-based effects and things like that. There is also a 30-day free trial available for Sonar X2, and the link for that is found on the Cakewalk home page: http://www.cakewalk.com/ To help you decide prior to buying some version of Sonar, you could choose to pick up the midi to USB converter, but as am typing this - guys help me out here with some additional posts, what would be a good choice for a basic audio interface? Or do you think perhaps just the free ASIO4ALL drivers and whatever PC-based speakers would do to start? Anyways, I am hoping some additional information comes your way from other posters here in the forum, to extend or better explain what I have commented on. Good luck to you both, perhaps you too would rekindle some musical passion from back when you were playing the Kurzweil yourself. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:26:17
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As you can now see, lots of helpful folks with fast typing skills. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:33:03
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I personally have never had much issue (in fact no issues) with on board sound using ASIO4ALL but if any sort of audio recording is an aim an interface would definitely be worth getting.
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Ebosell
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 15:44:35
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Wow! Thanks everyone for the great advice -- you have considerably "flattened" the learning curve for me. I think I'll go with Cakewalk Rapture and Sonus X2 Essentials. (My experience with freeware/shareware is that they invariably presume more technical knowledge than I've got.) The "last mile" is the MIDI interface. Some cost $5, some at least $40 or more. I don't expect to add any other MIDI-based hardware -- what do you recommend? And, Robert, I do still play the Kurzweil! The band would be happy if I showed up to play something more than piano and organ. Maybe they'll quit calling me the "one trick pony."
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scook
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 16:06:35
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I would tend to go with the low end of that price range. There is not much going on in the adapter to justify an expensive one.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 16:23:34
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Unless of course you can envisage recording Audio as well as Midi at some point in the future, in which case a combined audio/midi interface will future proof you for a number of years. One of the better ones at the lower end of the price range is the Saffire 6 USB made by Focusrite. I run one of these myself, as do several other people on the forum, and I don't recall anyone having a problem wit it. Most interfaces of this sort will give you your Midi in sockets, USB out to the computer, as well as at least 1 and more usually 2, pre-amps for capturing audio signals - keyboard audio, microphones, guitars etc.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Ebosell
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 16:37:50
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"Most interfaces of this sort will give you your Midi in sockets, USB out to the computer, as well as at least 1 and more usually 2, pre-amps for capturing audio signals - keyboard audio, microphones, guitars etc." Capturing audio signals -- this would be the audio signal from the instrument? I can see that feature being useful for a rehearsal or performance setup, such as when I don't want to play the Kurzweil as a MIDI controller.
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scook
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 16:42:26
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The audio inputs could be any combination of mic preamps, hi-z instrument inputs (for guitar/bass etc) or line inputs depending on the interface.
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Ebosell
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 16:44:05
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Oh -- I see -- they're line INPUTS.
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onebadbug
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 16:49:25
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Some of my music http://indiemusicworks.com/OBB/ Temporary machine: Sonar X2 Trial, Asus G74SX notebook, i7 2630QM, Win7 Ult., 8Gb Ram, Realtek HD Audio, Motu Express XT USB midi interface. My studio machine: Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, Sony Vaio RC110G, Pentium D 3.2 Ghz, 4 Gb Ram, 4-1Tb Raptor Sata HD's, Yam DS2416 sound card, 2 Yam XT44 A/D expansions, Motu Express XT paralell midi interface, Yam AW4416 studio Mixer.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 17:07:16
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And if your budget can stretch to the Focusrite, their pre-amps are among the best at this price point, and can better some costing a good deal more.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 19:27:16
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An audio interface takes over the job of converting analog signals to digital and the other way around. They do this through dedicated hardware, and their own Windows drivers so that the incredible amount of processing required to do this is not placed on the CPU, but rather in the audio interface itself. The result of this is much less work for your CPU, leaving it free to do other things, like running Sonar and that sort of thing. CPU's that get too loaded up with work cannot keep up with the never-ending workload expected to do the A/D and D/A conversion, and when they cannot keep up, audio crackles and pops and altogether loss of audio while you are playing start to happen. The interface takes all of that work on instead of your CPU. Audio interfaces typically have line inputs and outputs, headphone jacks, midi input/output ports, a USB connection to the computer, and also microphone inputs. Many have mic pre-amps in them as well as phantom power. One of these would be a great addition. If budget is a concern, there are as pointed out some pretty reasonable ones out there that do home recording well. You could also defer an audio interface if you were to download and install the freeware program called ASIO4ALL, which is incredibly easy to install and use - no real learning curve at all, and once it is installed and running, you never have to mess with it again. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 20:00:27
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Mr caring father: I am an IDIOT. I say that because sitting right in front of me, literally on the computer desk, is a completely unused audio interface with 2 instrument inputs, 2 mic inputs with some preamps, and might be a place to start. I just checked the Presonus site, and they have drivers for it - it is a legacy product (old), but the drivers DO support Windows 7 x64. It is a Firewire interface and does not have any midi jacks, but it you want it, it's my gift to you and your son. I do not use it - bought it for my son, but he moved on. I do not need any money for it - just send me a private message with a phone/email and we can work out the getting it to you part. I am in Maryland, the box is the size of a reasonable CD case, and weighs next to nothing. So, if you want it, it's yours, and for free! One less unused thing on my desk stop. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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AT
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/29 20:54:23
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Rapture (a fine synth) is (or was) on sale for $19.00. Get that. If it is off sale now wait until closer to Christamas. It should drop again. And visit krv.com to find some free synths. Plenty out there - Ugo audio, demos, etc. have fun, or your son anyway. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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the wildman
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Re:Basic synthesizer setup
2012/11/30 05:02:55
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