Bass effects

is your room treated with bass traps?  do you know where your peaks in your room response are?  what kind of monitors are you using?

Great feedack.
I do have a  significant amount of  piano on the song. I will try to do as you suggested. However, any suggestions as to what Producer included effect you would suggest to accomplish this task? Also, should I cut the piano above 200, or 400, or  just about 300?

As to the other question, I am not using any speakers at all. My setup is in the basement, and I would not dare record anything out loud--not that I'm sure this is better than what I AM doing. I simply record right to an audio track, or else record something to MIDI, and then record from the MIDI track to audio. The only sound is in my headphones.
When the occasional person comes over, such as  Prince or Paul, I then turn my Yahama speakers on.

Hope that's clear--except for the last sentence.
Thanks again.
LNovik

I like to start with a good sounding bass sample. From there the rest is easy.

I use very, very little in the way of FX on my basses.  Maybe a bit of compression (multi-band) and some EQ to dial in the specific sound I like.

I have Sonar 8.5, so don't have  ProChannel. I DID look at the Sonitus equalizer. I had seen someone on this site say to mainly keep the Bass range from 75-120. He said, "Watch for the 300 hz range...this is what muds up a bass." However, the Sonitus tool did not seem to allow me to mix to these specific numbers. They had their own cutoffs,  and they were not that close to the 75 and 120 ranges. However, I'll go back and look at this equalizer again.
And yes, I confess--it's headphones for everything. I do use the microphone for vocals and even for tambourine, since I thought the live tambourine sounded better. I've always thought  speakers aren't as good as headphones, so why distort the sound before saving it to disk? I hear what you are saying about the "air" in the sound, but I would have "basement air" in my project, and I don't think that would be pretty.

I'll try out these suggestions soon. I like the dialing up of the piano, and then coming back down when it sounds too tinny.
Perhaps I DO need to find another bass sound--one that wouldn't be as dense. I'll consider that.
And yes, Beagle, I CAN hear all my tracks perfectly when I record audio. And thankfully, only the part I am playing ends up on that new audio track. I think it has something to do with my mixer (a Mackie). Something like the mix doesn't go to the part that's being recorded, but just to the output.
Thanks again for the feedback.
LNovik

And yes, Beagle, I CAN hear all my tracks perfectly when I record audio. And thankfully, only the part I am playing ends up on that new audio track. I think it has something to do with my mixer (a Mackie). Something like the mix doesn't go to the part that's being recorded, but just to the output.
Thanks again for the feedback.

LNovik - but what are you hearing your tracks from when you are mixing?  are you using headphones plugged into the mixer?  do you have speakers connected to the mixer?  you have to have speakers or headphones of some kind if you can hear your project while you're mixing.  what speakers or headphones are you using for mixing?

Thanks for clearing that up. If anyone wants to know how I am able to hear my mix in my headphones while I"m recording a new audio track, let me know and I'll try to tell you what I'm  doing (once I figure it out.)

As for the post: "the Cakewalk sound center sample called Ricko in synth bass category:" is this "sound center" found in the new Sonar X? I thought there were just virtual synths in Sonar (8.5 Producer). Within each synth, I can search for all of thee specific sounds that a particular (virtual) synth can play. Where would I find this Ricko?

Thanks again.
LNovik

Yea, LNOvik, the sound center is a new synth in X1 - it has a lot of the "greatest hits"  from the other Cake synths.  I'm not sure how it really works, but it has a searchable browser w/ types of sounds and includes DimPro and Rapture.  I don't know where the Ricko synth comes from, but you should be able to find something good in 8.5 producer.

@

I do a lot of my work on headphones, mostly for convenience - to avoid inconveniencing nearby sleepers. I may get 95% of the way through a project before ever having heard it on speakers.

And 100% of the time, that first audition on speakers sounds like utter garbage! Even if I'd been pretty happy with the sound in the headphones. Oddly, the converse is never true: if the speakers are happy with it, it will always sound good in the headphones.

Bottom line is there's no substitute for speakers when it comes to judging EQ, panning, dynamics and balance. Even cheap speakers in an acoustically raw room will add some value.

Back to the EQ question...piano is a major offender when it comes to hogging the spectrum. No other instrument has anywhere near the same breadth of frequency content as a piano. So if you've got a piano in there, even if it's a featured instrument, it's a prime candidate for spectral pruning.

I'd start with a band pass filter on the piano, centered around 200Hz, and a 6 to 12db boost. (Yes, boost.) This will initially sound like mud soup, but the idea is to exaggerate the interference for diagnostic purposes. Slowly raise the frequency until the piano and bass stop fighting. Then turn the filter into a low shelf and change the boost to a cut. Start raising the gain until the mud comes back, then take it back down.

I will often automate a band on a parametric equalizer so I can bring up the full tone of the piano for any solo parts, like an intro, and then thin it out for the rest. Bear in mind that an aggressively high-passed piano will sound like a cheap toy when heard in solo. That's OK, because what counts is what it sounds like in the mix.

You can use a "notch" filter in Sonitus.  Up the gain in one EQ and set the O (width of the eq range) to a narrow one.  You now have a notch filter.  Now sweep the frequency up and down the sound in question to identify problem frequencies.  Once you have your mud, try cutting instead of boosting and/or widening the Q.  You'll also know the general range of mud on the other tracks, and can use cutting to clean up one or more tracks.  Also note you are likely to resonances at the octaves of your problems.  If 220 hz is a problem area, you will likely have anohter at 440 Hz, 880 etc.

@

I heavily process my bass? And vox, and other tracks. And find that I crash SONAR :-( I'm thinking about "busing it out..." 

Processing my tracks in to buses? And then mastering the buses? 

Getting that "fat sound" requires many tracks... Many buses.

And many plugs (non cake plugs...)

It's a process? And one that those with ham fists? seem incapable of understanding.

Just kidding, LNovik. I'll try and make some pictures tomorrow...

LNovik


Thanks, Beagle, for your last note. However, even if I listen to it in my car, for instance, it will then sound different from the speakers from my other (non-music) computer. And even my  car will sound different from another person's car--such as one in which someone has the bass cranked up.  However, I do get your point. I guess that's what I'm trying to do now. I do think my Sony headphones are pretty good, though I realize "good" doesn't always mean accurate. 


LNovik

I completely understand - and you won't get the song to sound the same on all mediums because they are very different.  my point is simply to take your project to different mediums and make notes to change things and get a balance between them all so that you're sounding the most consistent between them. 
 
take a commercial CD of a song similar to your project and play it in your car, in your living room, on a boom box, etc.  make notes on IT and how different it sounds.  now take your project to those same mediums and make notes to get your sound closest to the commercial CD. 

a big +1 to what bit says!  SPAN has been in my toolbox from early on because it helps SO much with the visual cues that I don't get from audible only.  One thing I love about SPAN is that you can hold down the CONTROL key while "sweeping" the frequencies with your mouse on the GUI of SPAN.  what that does is cause SPAN to become a temporary filter of what you see on the plot.  you can use that to scan the frequencies to help find "fundamental" frequencies of a given instrument or bus allowing you to carve EQ notches in other tracks for allowing punch from bass or kick, or whatever instrument you're working with!  it's an invaluable tool and I find it hard to believe it's FREE!

GlissEQ is a really good freebie as well.  the multiple track on one display is also a big help in figuring out where you need to cut some tracks and where you need to boost others.

what you are describing is classic MASKING.

study all about masking, and learn what frequencies are where (or use a visual tool like SPAN)

learn the differences between high/low shelves, and PEAK, and Q

learn how overlapping shelves and Peak EQ can work together (boosting one while cutting another, might seem counterintuitive..... but it isn't, once you understand what is happening)


learn about LINEAR PHASE

and learn about polarity, and don't be afraid to use it.