Helpful ReplyBass guitar direct recording that sounds good???

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rodreb
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2014/04/13 14:49:37 (permalink)

Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good???

Sometimes (due to noise constraints), I find it necessary to record bass guitar direct. I've tried various DI methods but, am underwhelmed. I've heard good things about the Sansamp Bass Driver. Anybody using this? I've thought about trying a Line 6 Bass Pod or Behringer Bass V-Amp (or whatever that's called).
I thought I'd pose this question here to see what other folks are using so I can hopefully not waste a bunch of time and $$$ trying things that are just not good.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice!



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#1
Sanderxpander
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 15:02:52 (permalink)
A DI should work fine unless you just don't like that type of sound. What kind of soundcard are you using and what kind of bass sound are you looking for?
If it's an amped bass sound you prefer, there are a bunch of VST-based bass ampsims too, most notably Ampltube Ampeg, TH2 Mark Bass and Softube's Bass Amp Room.
#2
Mystic38
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 15:43:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/04/13 15:49:34
Can you define "underwhelmed"?..
 
The DI part only gets you a clean signal and doesn't add any value to tone. So if you can record your bass noise free, then imo you wont add any value by purchasing additional boxes.
 
if you want a vintage type sound, then you will need to work the EQ for a typical cabinet response (falling past 4kHz ish, and also mimic the mid scooped tone of a vintage tube amp.
if you want a more modern sound, then amps typically have some presence hump and modern cabs are flatish response.
 
if you have some bass audio track, I would just suggest starting with the pro channel bass presets, play with the EQ, compression and tube drive settings.
 
hope this helps

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#3
drewfx1
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 15:51:40 (permalink)
Yeah, for a "direct" sound any reasonable DI should get a decent sound. For a passive bass you need to make sure the DI's input impedance is high enough or you'll get a dull sound - some audio interfaces and mic preamps with "instrument" inputs come up short here. Of course you need to get a good sound out of the bass itself.
 
For amp sounds, I like the Amplitube stuff which has a wide variety of good bass amp models, depending on what kind of sound you're going for.

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#4
Katnip
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 15:54:38 (permalink)
Two popular DI's for bass are the Avalon U5 and the A-Design REDDI. I use an Avalon U5 into a FMR Audio RNC 1773 compressor (very light compression) and get great results with a variety of basses. Both the U5 and REDDI are a bit pricey, but they'll give you very acceptable results. They are common DI's in high end studios.
#5
konradh
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 16:17:06 (permalink)
My personal opinion is that the direct box won't make much of a difference on a DI bass unless you have an exceptionally horrible direct box.  I use the Hi Z input on my interface with no direct box and that works fine.
 
I like the unaltered sound of the DI'd bass, with maybe a little limiting later.
 
For amped sounds, Line 6 doesn't make the Bass Pod anymore, but if you can find one, it has a good range of amp sounds.  (Line 6 has newer products to replace the Bass Pod and, unfortunately, I am not familiar with the current bass solution.)  Of course, there is Guitar Rig.  EZ Mix 2 has a few really good bass presets.

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michaelhanson
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 16:35:13 (permalink)
Amplitube Ampeg through my Focusrite 8i6 guitar input. Good bass and playing technique a plus.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 16:58:09 (permalink)
For a while I was using a  BH 250. It has a DI XLR output and can be run without a speaker too. 
http://www.tcelectronic.com/bh250/
 
You download Tone Print efxs and can achieve just about any sound you like. I actually used it in by pass mode ( bypasses the EQ and EFX's)  most of the time and found it was the sound I liked best.
But then I bough my Focusrite scarlett 6i6 and found I got pretty close to the same sound just plugging right in. So depending on your interface there's no saying if it will be good or bad. My Tascams sounded boring in this regard.  
I have upgraded my Yamaha's Bass pick ups and personally I think that a good bass sound starts right there with the instrument. 
 
I do like to use compression most times but if I play carefully I get a good even track. 

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#8
Pragi
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 17:46:15 (permalink)
I like the sound of the saffire pro 40(direct into) preamps for
neutral bass sounds, it´s a good basic for emulations like amplitube ampeg and the markbass plug in
and a mix of the Gap pre 73 as a DI box and a sennheiser md 421 mic for a 
growling (is that the right word?)  characterful bass.
 
#9
Guitarpima
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 20:11:24 (permalink)
DI is fine. Amplitube's Ampeg bass is awesome!!!

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Anderton
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 21:15:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby DesertHermit 2014/04/15 00:15:51
The aspect of "touch" is huge. I wrote an article that should be helpful - pay particular attention to the sections on tuning and pickup height. Tuning is ultra-important with bass because the frequencies are so low. Any detuned sympathetic vibrations are like kryptonite to your notes.

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Maarkr
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/13 22:59:00 (permalink)
I don't know what kind of music you're doing or what results u r looking for, but some free options (I do like my Ampeg tho) include maybe double tracking the bassline, using compression, eq, tube and saturation  or whatever on the automated copy.  I've even used an automated synth overdub track to thicken and give a unique sound to the bassline.

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soundtweaker
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 00:13:51 (permalink)
If you want an Ampeg B15 type sound from a DI and you can afford it, get the REDDI DI.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/REDDI/
For a clean transparent tone get a Countryman DI.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DT85/
If you want a preamp that oozes vintage goodness try a custom made CAPI VP28
http://www.customanalogservices.com/vp28
 
There's a ton of great compressors out there. Pete's Audio BAC500 is one of my fav's for bass.
http://petesplaceaudio.com/bac-500.html
 
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Rodan
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 01:09:04 (permalink)
I use the Behringer V-amp Pro quite often for direct input recording of my basses.  If you don't enable the effects or modify the tone or turn on the amp modeling, the V-amp Pro is silent and works quite well.  I also direct in to my M-audio FireWire 410.  I really can't tell any difference in quality of sound from either interface although using the Behringer gives you an option of creating stereo tracks.
 
Good luck in your quest,
 
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AT
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 01:11:33 (permalink)
Warm Audio TB12.  You can add as much distortion as you please, all analog.  But just a little hair usually does it.
 
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bandso
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 01:35:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abb 2014/05/01 12:32:17
#1 Tip: Use new strings when recording. No amp/cab emulation is going to wow you if you are recording mud from the instrument.   Of course a better instrument will usually give a better tone. My Fender with active EMGs, or my PRS custom, sound much better than my cheap ibanez with passive pickups.
 
Make sure the instrument's intonation is correct prior to recording
 
Here are some mixing tips off of the top of my head.
#2 Autotune, yes indeed..autotune will help to even out the notes and make the bass sound tighter.
#3 Apply some form of distortion to the track to make it stand out in the mix (Sans amp, VST dist.) The helps even on a country song or a ballad (SoftTube saturation knob is wonderful for this).
Treat the bass with the same thoughts as you would any other instrument: Compression, EQ, Distortion, Automation.  etc...
#4 Make an EQ spot in the mix for the bass to sit: EQ the bass drum, and the kick so they don't fight each other, Sidechain the bass and the kick, Roll off the lows on guitars, vocals, and others to keep the bass frequencies open for the bass. 
#5 Try parallel compression on the bass
#6 Try a tube preamp instead of the DI to dirty the signal up a little.
#7 proper monitoring is essential. Try arc room correction if you don't have a bunch or bass traps.
#8 Load up a song with a bass tone that you really like and try to dial in a tone that is similiar with EQ and the amp sims (If it's the right genre)
 
I used a bass pod for years, and yes they can give a good start for a better bass sound, but as the others have mentioned the new amp/cab emulations are fantastic to dial in a good tone.
 
Please do not forget step #1: Use New Strings!
Hope this helps!

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 04:35:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abb 2014/05/01 12:31:39
Oh yeah for free option any kind of (parallel) distortion can work really well on bass!
Some people prefer a mild distortion on the entire signal (i.e. not parallel) but many distortions have some low and high roll off that you probably don't want.
#17
Sidroe
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 09:02:12 (permalink)
A quick mention that Audiffex has just updated their Gallien Krueger bass amp sim to 64 bit! This plug in is amazing! I have used all of them and it always wins out. It contains 3 GK bass heads, every cab that GK builds, and a wide variety of mics. It is also stereo so you can run a woofer cab with one mic and a midrange cab with another mic. Both mic setups are completely adjustable. I have used this as my main goto bass plug for years! Highly recommended!
Sit tight and I will post the link.
As for the DI, I never used one. I plug my basses direct into my interfaces making sure the inputs are set for high impedance. I usually monitor thru my plugin as I track. Any compression or eqing gets done in Sonar as I track. You just have to make sure yoyur input at the interface stays out of clipping territory.

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Sidroe
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 09:07:09 (permalink)
http://www.audiffex.com/EN/gallien.html
Here is the link. They are really reasonably priced and worth every penny. I waited for years for them to upgrade to 64 bit and finally got it. The 32 bit has held it's own for a long time.

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bandso
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 11:50:24 (permalink)
@Sidroe
I've been eyeing those GK emulations for quite some time. I've used GK amps live for years and just love the sound. The GK attempt in the Line 6 toneport, was in the ball park, but sub par (Not a bad sound, just not quite a GK). The one in Amplitude is better, but just doesn't quite nail it. The sound clips on the Audiffex website really suprised me on how much they sound like my live rig. They really have that GK "glug" sound that I love. These are going to be my next software purchase.

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#20
rodreb
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/14 19:52:39 (permalink)
Thanks for all the great advice everyone! What started this is, I watched the recent Pensado's Place with Tchad Blake. In it, he said he hasn't mic'd up a bass amp for years. He records all his basses direct in thru a Sansamp Bass Direct. In fact, he sang the praises of his Sansamp highly!
So, I thought, "I'll buy me one of those". Then, I decided to see what other folks are using so, I made this post.
Bottom line, I'm looking for a direct recorded bass sound that sounds well recorded/produced.
Typically, I record bluesy rock/indie/alt stuff.
I've tried the high impedance D.I. inputs on Focusrite ISA One and Presonus Eureka, and an ART MPA Pro II, as well as a plain old direct box from ART. I've also tried it plugged right into my Yamaha RM-800 mixer. Any/all of these are not 'BAD". I would just like to find something that gives an already produced sound without having to add a bunch of additional compression, EQ, etc. I suppose I could just record a dry, D.I. then add and amp sim after the fact but, would rather get it all in one shot, on the way in, with no latency to have to deal with.
As far as the players I record, I'd say I've been very fortunate to only have players in the very good to excellent range (so far).



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#21
twaddle
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 05:44:40 (permalink)
As a guitarist who also plays and records bass I bought the Pod X3 a few years ago as I could use it live as well as in the studio and it has some really good bass amp sims which I much preferred to software options because latency for me was still an issue.
 
I've not tried the bass pod XT but it can only be better than my pod X3 which I think is excellent.
Looking on their site it seems they don't have a replacement for the bass pod so you'd probably have to get a second
hand one. The Pod X3 has hardly come down in price and if anything it's gone up which might be something to do with their abandoning of the bass pod ?
 
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jimkleban
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 07:06:13 (permalink)
DI Bass rocks.... both stand alone and mixed together with a amped track.  There were loads of suggestions about how to DI but if you want to track without creating a thunder storm in you home studio, then the idea of using an amp sim comes into play as mentioned.  May I suggest, that a DI'ed sound going thru a IR of a bass cabinet with or without an amp sim can yield fantastic results.  But as Craig says, you need to make sure your setup and playing is quite good so that you don't kill the mix... nothing like sloppy bass lines to kill a groove.
 
Good luck in your pursuits.
 
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Sidroe
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 08:14:56 (permalink)
Rodreb, I understand what you are saying about a ready to go bass sound right out of the box. I think I can speak for all of us when I say there is no such beast that exists. Any instrument, percussion, keys, guitars, bass, etc. always will have to be tweaked here and there to get it to fit the bill for the song at hand. What I would suggest is to look at the choices, make the one YOU feel best suits your needs, and make as many presets of your own, fitting the material you do. You don't know how many hours and sometimes days it takes in the studio to get that killer tone you've hunted for just for that one song. Then the next song, there you are changing instruments, twiddling knobs, moving mics, just to fit the next song.
I have probably a dozen presets to start me off in the GK amp plug. They are just starting points. I still might have to adjust the mids or top end. Whoops, too much bottom!
Don't get too mired down in the details. Get something that sounds as good and you can live with and continue on with the writing. You hear that one phrase a lot amongst musicians! "I can live with it!" Good Luck!

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#24
Sidroe
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 08:18:32 (permalink)
Bandso, I can't tell if they changed anything in the sound engine in the 64 bit GK plug. It seems to be much better. Especially in the top end. I have always loved the sound of GK bass amps as well. I had a bass player in my band once that ran two GKs with a Rickenbacker 4001! What a wall of sound that was.

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#25
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 10:55:04 (permalink)
FWIW, I've bought a lot of different DI's for recording Bass.
  • Reddi
  • U5
  • BDDI
  • RBI
  • RPM
  • Bass Pod
  • Pod HD500
  • Bass V-Amp Pro
  • B3
 
Out of those units, only two remain.
The Avalon U5 and the Zoom B3.
 
I wanted to like the Reddi... as many folks absolutely rave about it.
Perhaps mine was defective, but (to me) it didn't sound anything like a B15.
My unit was a little prone to noise.  Especially bad when used with a Ric 4003 that was poorly shielded.
 
The SansAmp units all had a nice "grind"... but the dynamics were a bit too squashed.
The BDDI and RBI have a tendency to sound pretty "clacky" emphasizing the upper mids.
The RPM has a ton of gain on hand.  You can get crazy with the distortion.
You can quickly get decent sounding bass with any of the SansAmp units.
Although super convenient and low cost, the SansAmp units (IMO) produced pretty decent but not great results.
 
The POD units are certainly convenient and low cost.
Many of the amp/cab combinations sound muffled or lack articulation (especially the Bass POD).  Woof!
Granted, there's not a lot of top-end in a mic'd bass cab, but there's still definition/articulation.
The POD HD500's Ampeg model was IMO the best of the bunch.
I'd opt for SanAmp units over the POD range.
 
The Avalon U5 is built like a tank.
The sound is what you'd expect.
Clean, clear... and a little "larger" sound than using a Radial DI.  Guess you could describe it as "hi fi"
I don't use the onboard "tone shaping" preset EQ settings.
The U5 lets the character of the bass come thru.  It's enhanced slightly (similar to using a Neve preamp - larger but the basic tone isn't changed).  The U5 won't produce an "amped up" Ampeg type of sound.
The cost of the U5 is below the Reddi... and a bit more than the rest.
If you're going to use AmpSim plugins, IMO the U5 is your best DI option.
 
Of all the Amp Modeling units that I've owned, the inexpensive Zoom B3 is by far my favorite.
I've mentioned this before, but there's a Bassman 300 model in there that's absolutely fantastic.
I owned a SVT Classic (80-lb head) strickly for recording.  Using the Zoom and tweaking that Bassman 300 model, I compared results side-by-side with the SVT Classic/mic'd cab.  The Bassman 300 model yields results that sound so good... I decided to sell the SVT.  You can get a little dirt/grind... and the tone is balanced, full, articulate.
I'm into classic-rock bass tone... and this is it.
For a low cost Bass recording option, you can't beat the Zoom B3
 
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#26
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 11:17:03 (permalink)
The Reddi is designed around a tube that retails for approximately $1.25 each. You can get them for $1.00 if you take an extra moment to look for a deal. 
 
:-)
 
It's crazy that the designers would put so much money into the two relatively massive transformers that are in that thing and then drop a cheap as dirt, cold war surplus tube in to it so it can make noise. I'm not much for idea that tube swapping as an upgrade is a given, but the REDDI seems to be begging for an opportunity to have a better tube stuck in it.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
edit grammar
post edited by mike_mccue - 2014/04/15 17:02:11


#27
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 14:00:10 (permalink)
Mike, 
 
I may grab another Reddi... and try swapping out that tube.
Everyone raves about that unit...
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#28
Beepster
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 14:17:46 (permalink)
I've been getting a surprisingly good direct sound from my Focusrite Multi-In Inst. setting and Squier P-Bass. Not sure if there is is something special going on in the interface for Hi-Z but just spicing the line signal up with some ProChannel gack is really working out well for me these days.
 
Try some clone layering. One track for low end and body. Another for grit and attack. I used to use a third but I'm not even doing that anymore. Compression and saturation modules with some EQ panned up the middle.
 
I still want to get the MarkII Bass plug from Overloud though.
#29
bandso
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Re: Bass guitar direct recording that sounds good??? 2014/04/15 14:39:12 (permalink)
One more quick tip. You may want to take the sound directly from the "preamp out" or XLR send of a real bass head. A GK400RB or an AMPEG SVT is heavenly for this type of direct recording but it will need some effects love once it gets into the DAW.
However considering you want to have a hot rod sound going straight in, then I'd say the bass pod is the way to go as you get many amp/cab options, eq, compression, etc..

Bandlab Platinum and every other toy I can get my hands on...and yes I'm way in debt over this obsession...
#30
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