jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
First of all, I think the programmers at Cakewalk and I are in full agreement: The staff view is not meant to be a music notation program, it is not supposed to be Finale or Sibelius (which I've used for 10 years for my scores and printing requirements). It IS supposed to be an accurate MIDI input and editing tool, that is all it is, no less, no more. May I digress. Music notation has evolved over the past 1000 years. It is a stunning achievement in and of itself that allowed for music to reach a level of subtlety, intellectual depth and structural development that music would not have achieved without it. The symphonies of Brahms, Mahler and Beethoven, the concertos of Bach and the music of of great composers like Samuel Barber could never have come into existence without music notation. It really deserves our respect for its contribution to the evolution of music on our planet. I know the programmers at Cakewalk know a lot about software programming. I am not sure if they fully appreciate the power of music notation, even as a midi inputting device. The reason I suspect this is because there seems to be little energy expended toward fixing some basic problems that have been around for quite some time. These are NOT feature requests. They are requests for some bug fixes. 1. The track pane often jumbles the order of the tracks as they are laid out in the track view. 2. Tied and dotted triplets do not display correctly. 3. A new problem involving dotted notes has appeared in X1. If the staff is not of fairly large size, the dot becomes invisible. It is not a consequence of hardware, either monitor or display card. I tried this on several computers, one having a fairly fast graphics card and lots of graphic memory, and the support person at Cakewalk also verified the issue. Another user has reported this problem as well. Without being able to see the dot clearly, the accuracy and precision of MIDI inputting becomes that much more difficult. 4. Finally, a related problem. In correct music notation, the dot of a dotted note is always placed just above a line if the stem goes up, and just below the line if the stem goes down. This is standard practice and for good reason, a dot on a line becomes unreadable. This should also be addressed. I hope the programmers and management at Cakewalk care enough to fix these issues. It would really add to the prestige of the program and show that Sonar X1 really is designed for professional composers, producers, arrangers and orchestrators. Sincerely, Jerry Gerber www.jerrygerber.com
|
Combo
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 187
- Joined: 2010/09/08 09:48:52
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/25 19:43:58
(permalink)
jsg
The staff view is not meant to be a music notation program, it is not supposed to be Finale or Sibelius (which I've used for 10 years for my scores and printing requirements). It IS supposed to be an accurate MIDI input and editing tool, that is all it is, no less, no more.
I totally agree, though the relevant screens in X1 have changed so there is more emphasis on 'notation-program- related' things like lyrics and expression marks, while inputting is not as quick and easy as it was in 8.5.3.
I'm not asking for improvements either but would like to see Staff View restored to the level of usability, for inputting, of the 8.5.3 version. In X1 this has taken small steps backwards - it's probably a slightly less easy tool to use in X1 because of those minor changes. There was a bug (acknowledged a couple of months ago but not yet fixed, tho there was a workaround) in Staff View Step Record (can't enter more than 3 8th notes or shorter in a row). Until CW provided a workaround for this Staff View in X1was much slower to use, now it's OK but still slightly slower in terms of workflow.
SONAR Platinum rolling updates: Intel i7 2600k on Gigabyte P67A UD 7: 16GB RAM: W7 x64 Home Premium.
|
BenMMusTech
Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2606
- Joined: 2011/05/23 16:59:57
- Location: Warragul, Victoria-Australia
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/25 20:47:14
(permalink)
Look you are beating a dead horse, Sonar no longer wants "proper" composers to use their product. The score veiw is useless to input into and it as you have said it displays tripplets and the like wrong.
Lets get this straight Sonar from day one and I am not talking about Pro Audio when it was called that was never designed with this in mind and from what I am researching it is only just starting to become a reality now and this is in Cubase 6.
I am not happy with Sonar/Cakewalk/Roland and anyone who has read my posts will know this but we have to stop kidding ourselves and start looking at this concept of DAW's and music technology differently.
I will continue to use Sonar 8.5 until I can afford to move to Cubase but I will continue to use Sonar 8.5 for certain projects. I will eventually upgrade to X1 but I will only use it as live instrument. I will also get a copy of Studio One by Presonus because they have a few tools that the other programs don't, I think you get my drift.
We have to look at each DAW as an instrument and a studio and each does certain things really well and each does certain things really badly. It's as simple as that.
So whilst Sonar only costs $400 and Cubase I think $500, it will still cost you $1500 to have all the tools you need to compose with esp if you arn't a pretend wannabe bedroom wanker, who thinks that a few loops and presets makes you an arseist.
Learn (not OP) a modicum of music theory and allow us that know how to read and write music the right to input into our mighty DAW's the way the greats would have done it.
|
Metaphasic
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 262
- Joined: 2010/09/28 16:36:37
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 00:18:34
(permalink)
^ What he said. If an electrician showed up at your house with only a pair of klein pliers, you'd probably send him packing. We all need several tools to do our jobs. The DAW world is no different.
|
Dave Modisette
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11050
- Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
- Location: Brandon, Florida
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 08:09:25
(permalink)
I've got to agree here. Years ago when I was an arranger for one of the USAF bands, I would have loved to have a tool as powerful as the modern DAW software. It would have saved tons of time proofreading and working out mistakes in transposition of parts for certain instruments.
I would invite the developers, marketing department and all who are involved with the creation of new versions of SONAR to force themselves to create a full blown project with nothing but the Staff view to input midi data. They would quickly get a picture of why this needs to be addressed.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 08:34:48
(permalink)
can we assume that everyone who is on this bandwagon has submitted feature requests and/or problem reports?
I, too, would like improvements to the notation of sonar. I, too, use finale for my real scoring needs. I, too, realize that sonar's scoring is lacking especially in things like triplets. I have submitted problem reports and feature requests on these and other notation issues. don't expect the bakers to read these threads. sometimes they do, yes, and sometimes that's very fruitful. but don't expect it and even if they do, I've OFTEN seen Noel or any of the other request problem reports or feature requests be filled out anyway.
I for one wouldn't mind paying extra for a higher level of notation. for example the big 2 notation companies, Sibelius and Finale, both have several levels of their products (just like sonar does). you choose the level you want to pay for your needs. I wouldn't mind if sonar took the same approach. the notation that they have would be the entry level. no one would have to pay extra for the entry level. but if you wanted more features and better implementation, then we might have to pay $X for an add-on which upgraded our notation. or maybe $XX for the BEST add on with all features.
but without submitting problem reports and/or feature requests they may never realize how much of a desire is out there.
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 09:24:08
(permalink)
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians. It seems to be the "now thing" to just pump out endless loops of bs slap some crappy meat market lyrics to it and call it music. I guess that has it's place since it seems to be so popular but that leaves out people who really crafted their art.
Bottom line, I'll just keep writing my music in Finale then import the midi into Sonar and go that route. Maybe Cakewalk will get the staff view in order some day?
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
wintaper
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 464
- Joined: 2007/12/11 22:52:07
- Location: New Jersey
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 10:24:40
(permalink)
Staff view is useless in Sonar. Always has been.
Staff view rocks in Pro-Tools. Even though I also own Sibelius, usually the staff view in PT9 is all I need.
Intel i7 @ 3.60GHz, 12GB DDR3 1600MHz, Win7 / OSX 10.6.6, Sonar 8.53 / Pro Tools 9.0.1, RME RayDAT, UAD2-Quad, Focusrite OctoPre (x4), Euphonix MC Mix, Tascam US2400, Monette Ajna (x2), 15' Macbook Pro
|
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 10:31:57
(permalink)
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians. Pretty bold statement eh? Off the top of my head I can count about 30 music degrees, 9 people that do orchestration work almost full-time, a Julliard pianist and more guitarists than should be allowed in one building at any given time ;) I fail to see how your definition of a musician is tied to the functionality of software. If you'd like to have a constructive dialog about the staff view and things you'd like to see in it that's what we should do. If you'd like to express your opinions on Cakewalk employees you should call us. Jerry raises some points about the Staff view and as Reece points out submitting feature requests is the best way to ensure that we hear you. @Jerry - we have already submitted feature requests on your behalf and you spoke with people in our tech support group on the phone. This isn't an argument, all of your requests have been heard loud and clear and are in the hands of the decision making powers. @folks following along - we do value your opinions and a human reads every single feature request that we get. Please understand though that we get a lot and try our best to implement as many as we can. The staff view is one area that we know needs some updating (we've acknowledged this on many-a-thread) - I don't have a timeline or schedule but it is an area we are aware of and the more feature requests we get the more well-defined any enhancements we make will be.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 10:48:04
(permalink)
Guitarpima
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians.
How does that distinction work?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 11:34:21
(permalink)
Wow. that's quite an assertion, guitarprima. I'm like John T's question - what exactly is the line between a musician and someone who "plays an instrument"? and who gets to determine that?
|
Ham N Egz
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 15161
- Joined: 2005/01/21 14:27:49
- Location: Arpadhon
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 11:59:59
(permalink)
Beagle
Wow. that's quite an assertion, guitarprima. I'm like John T's question - what exactly is the line between a musician and someone who "plays an instrument"? and who gets to determine that?
Sadly, Beagle, SOME are neither..
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
|
bayoubill
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10899
- Joined: 2009/04/27 06:11:12
- Location: Shreveport Louisiana
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 12:07:04
(permalink)
Guitarpima
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians. It seems to be the "now thing" to just pump out endless loops of bs slap some crappy meat market lyrics to it and call it music. I guess that has it's place since it seems to be so popular but that leaves out people who really crafted their art.
Bottom line, I'll just keep writing my music in Finale then import the midi into Sonar and go that route. Maybe Cakewalk will get the staff view in order some day?
I'll stand next to you anytime, anywhere,any stage Guitarprimadonna. STHFU
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 12:58:54
(permalink)
wintaper
Staff view is useless in Sonar. Always has been.
Staff view rocks in Pro-Tools. Even though I also own Sibelius, usually the staff view in PT9 is all I need.
The staff view is very useful, I've used it, almost exclusively to produce 11 CDs, 7 symphonies, 3 concertos, songs, and many short works. It needs work, it needs to be a top-notch midi inputting and editing tool. That, after all, is what it is designed to be. Jerry Gerber www.jerrygerber.com
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 13:08:12
(permalink)
bayoubill
Guitarpima
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians. It seems to be the "now thing" to just pump out endless loops of bs slap some crappy meat market lyrics to it and call it music. I guess that has it's place since it seems to be so popular but that leaves out people who really crafted their art.
Bottom line, I'll just keep writing my music in Finale then import the midi into Sonar and go that route. Maybe Cakewalk will get the staff view in order some day?
I'll stand next to you anytime, anywhere,any stage Guitarprimadonna. STHFU
Your a douchebag.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 13:11:16
(permalink)
Willy Jones [Cakewalk
]
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians.
Pretty bold statement eh? Off the top of my head I can count about 30 music degrees, 9 people that do orchestration work almost full-time, a Julliard pianist and more guitarists than should be allowed in one building at any given time ;) I fail to see how your definition of a musician is tied to the functionality of software. If you'd like to have a constructive dialog about the staff view and things you'd like to see in it that's what we should do. If you'd like to express your opinions on Cakewalk employees you should call us.
Jerry raises some points about the Staff view and as Reece points out submitting feature requests is the best way to ensure that we hear you.
@Jerry - we have already submitted feature requests on your behalf and you spoke with people in our tech support group on the phone. This isn't an argument, all of your requests have been heard loud and clear and are in the hands of the decision making powers.
@folks following along - we do value your opinions and a human reads every single feature request that we get. Please understand though that we get a lot and try our best to implement as many as we can. The staff view is one area that we know needs some updating (we've acknowledged this on many-a-thread) - I don't have a timeline or schedule but it is an area we are aware of and the more feature requests we get the more well-defined any enhancements we make will be.
I meant no disrespect but, with this being an issue for so long, one has to wonder. I'll admit those were not the best choice of words.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
SteveGriffiths
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 200
- Joined: 2004/10/10 10:59:36
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 13:17:32
(permalink)
BenMMusTech
So whilst Sonar only costs $400 and Cubase I think $500, it will still cost you $1500 to have all the tools you need to compose with esp if you arn't a pretend wannabe bedroom wanker, who thinks that a few loops and presets makes you an arseist.
Learn (not OP) a modicum of music theory and allow us that know how to read and write music the right to input into our mighty DAW's the way the greats would have done it.
As a musician who records tracks and loops (from instruments, stock and freebie VSTs etc) in his bedroom, and perform live broadcasts nightly against those tracks using nothing but Sonar and hardware from that same bedroom - and gets paid to do so - I have to a) disagree with your assertion that you need to spend more money to compose music, and b) be offended that you consider me a wannabe bedroom wanker. This "arseist" (you obviously have not spent enough extra money in tools to make you anything other than a wannabe wanker typist - the spell checker and preview in the forum is evidently not sufficient) used to make a living doing live performances starting with an RC50 looper with nothing stored on it. Old saying but still valid - not the tools but how you use them. Grif (cranky wanker bedroom wannabe arseist)
|
subtlearts
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2200
- Joined: 2006/01/10 05:59:21
- Location: Berlin
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 14:04:58
(permalink)
Hey cool - another notation thread!
First, let me congratulate the OP on a well-articulated set of basic concerns. I am in full agreement, and it would appear that the issue is again on the table and has again been acknowledged by CW staff as being in need of attention. Cool. It would really add another layer of completeness to be able to really use the staff editor in a fluid way. I am speaking here as someone who doesn't use it a lot currently, but I do have a need for it from time to time. In other words, I'm perfectly capable of working with written music and would use it more if it were a more reliable and sophisticated tool.
I'm not sure about Beagle's suggestion of an add-on. If it were an add-on that brought full and serious scoring to the suite of tools in an elegant and well-integrated way, I'd be interested. But I think that the basic tools need to be there at the Producer level, and since they're kind-of-more-or-less there already, I'm mostly in support of finishing the job and getting it right. After that, hey, if Cake wants to put together a real notation add-on for a C-note or so, they can pretty much count on a customer here. But I won't hold my breath.
|
bayoubill
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10899
- Joined: 2009/04/27 06:11:12
- Location: Shreveport Louisiana
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 14:11:50
(permalink)
Guitarpima
bayoubill
Guitarpima
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians. It seems to be the "now thing" to just pump out endless loops of bs slap some crappy meat market lyrics to it and call it music. I guess that has it's place since it seems to be so popular but that leaves out people who really crafted their art.
Bottom line, I'll just keep writing my music in Finale then import the midi into Sonar and go that route. Maybe Cakewalk will get the staff view in order some day?
I'll stand next to you anytime, anywhere,any stage Guitarprimadonna. STHFU
Your a douchebag.
POST YOUR EXPERTISE for I see no music in your threads and till then you just a bag.
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 14:25:07
(permalink)
Willy Jones [Cakewalk
]
@Jerry - we have already submitted feature requests on your behalf and you spoke with people in our tech support group on the phone. This isn't an argument, all of your requests have been heard loud and clear and are in the hands of the decision making powers.
@folks following along - we do value your opinions and a human reads every single feature request that we get. Please understand though that we get a lot and try our best to implement as many as we can. The staff view is one area that we know needs some updating (we've acknowledged this on many-a-thread) - I don't have a timeline or schedule but it is an area we are aware of and the more feature requests we get the more well-defined any enhancements we make will be.
Hi Willie. I don't think that feature requests are are really the issue. There have been many years of posts and requests. Cakewalk even put out a survey asking what people need in the staff view. The only real issue at this point IMO is Cakewalk's unwillingness to implement these improvements. The staff view has had very little change since it was introduced in the 90's. For 15 years we've been asking for improvements and Cakewalk always says "we know" but nothing ever happens. Is there anything to lead anyone to believe that it will ever happen?
post edited by vintagevibe - 2011/05/26 15:05:06
|
Metaphasic
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 262
- Joined: 2010/09/28 16:36:37
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 15:15:59
(permalink)
I'll toss in my 2 cents.
I studied music since junior high. I am now 42. The staff was my main means of pencil writing music long before computers. Just because we have other means now does not diminish the importance of the staff. Printing out your scores to share with various musicians would be difficult without it. Try handing a celloist a piano roll and watch their vessels burst. The point here is that while it may not be a focus of SONAR as a AUDIO workstation, if the decision is made to keep the staff view, then it should work properly. Nobody, including me (an IT professional) is going to crack nuts over a bug here and there, other than to report it, and hope it gets fixed at some point. The staff view is just one tool in our belt, and the more tools we have, the better we'll be.
|
Elffin
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1196
- Joined: 2007/02/11 16:49:19
- Location: Wales
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 15:26:28
(permalink)
I very much agree with the need for notation improvements...
Off now to ask in feature requests....
|
Elffin
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1196
- Joined: 2007/02/11 16:49:19
- Location: Wales
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 15:31:51
(permalink)
Wondering too.... Is asking Cakewalk / Roland to buy the company who produces Notion a valid feature request?... Will think about that one... 
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 18:04:53
(permalink)
Elffin
Wondering too....
Is asking Cakewalk / Roland to buy the company who produces Notion a valid feature request?...
Will think about that one...
They did that a while back but I think they sold it. Anyway they never used it in Sonar.
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 18:07:28
(permalink)
I really think that if Cakewalk bought Notion both companies would greatly benefit from each others technology.
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 19:06:00
(permalink)
wintaper
Staff view is useless in Sonar. Always has been.
Staff view rocks in Pro-Tools. Even though I also own Sibelius, usually the staff view in PT9 is all I need.
I wouldn't say staff view is useless. It can be used to change the pitch of existing MIDI data. Other activities are a little more challenging. The notation view in PT8-9 is courtesy of Avid's acquisition of Sibelius and inserting that technology into PT. Speculation, but I doubt if Avid/PT had the time or human resources to code this themselves. So why would Avid do this? Besides being able to profit from Sibelius, they could (speculation again) endear themselves to PT installations where there is a huge benefit to being able to generate printed scores for studio musicians in soundtrack situations.
|
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3325
- Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 19:24:10
(permalink)
For what it's worth, I do the majority of my arranging in the staff view because I wrote songs on paper before there was such a thing as a DAW and I think in terms of music on paper.
I don't dislike the Staff view at all, but would like to see improvements.
I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned it, but here is my pet peeve: Sonar guesses the enharmonics wrong (in my opinion) almost every time. That's understandable since it is more art than science when choosing B# v. C natural v D double-flat. But here's what should be fixed: you should be able to use Find/Change (interpolate) to fix all the instances at once. I have seen documentation saying this works, but it doesn't.
|
stratman70
Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3044
- Joined: 2006/09/12 20:34:12
- Location: Earth
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 19:36:17
(permalink)
Guitarpima
I've come to the conclusion that the people of Cakewalk are not musicians. They may play instruments but they are no musicians. You meant no disrespect? BS - Pal
post edited by stratman70 - 2011/05/26 19:43:50
|
Susan G
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12016
- Joined: 2003/11/05 22:49:26
- Location: Putnam County, NY
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 20:01:02
(permalink)
But here's what should be fixed: you should be able to use Find/Change (interpolate) to fix all the instances at once. I have seen documentation saying this works, but it doesn't. Hi konradh- You're using eg. " C#?" in both Min and Max note fields in the Search and " Db?" in both Min and Max for the Replace? If that doesn't work, it's indeed broken in X1 (or the documentation's wrong), since that works fine in 8.5.3 here to replace all instances. -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
|
Danny Danzi
Moderator
- Total Posts : 5810
- Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
- Location: DanziLand, NJ
- Status: offline
Re:Beating A Dead Horse: The Staff View in X1 (To the Sonar Programmers)
2011/05/26 20:18:57
(permalink)
vintagevibe
Willy Jones [Cakewalk
]
@Jerry - we have already submitted feature requests on your behalf and you spoke with people in our tech support group on the phone. This isn't an argument, all of your requests have been heard loud and clear and are in the hands of the decision making powers.
@folks following along - we do value your opinions and a human reads every single feature request that we get. Please understand though that we get a lot and try our best to implement as many as we can. The staff view is one area that we know needs some updating (we've acknowledged this on many-a-thread) - I don't have a timeline or schedule but it is an area we are aware of and the more feature requests we get the more well-defined any enhancements we make will be.
Hi Willie. I don't think that feature requests are are really the issue. There have been many years of posts and requests. Cakewalk even put out a survey asking what people need in the staff view. The only real issue at this point IMO is Cakewalk's unwillingness to implement these improvements. The staff view has had very little change since it was introduced in the 90's. For 15 years we've been asking for improvements and Cakewalk always says "we know" but nothing ever happens. Is there anything to lead anyone to believe that it will ever happen?
Vintage, this is an excellent post and how I feel also. The one good thing we got going for us though is Willie is a godsend. Getting to know him a bit over the years, if there's one guy we can rely on to be a "voice of the people" it's him. :) So hopefully we'll see something happen eventually. But like you, I too have wondered the same things you have brought up in your post. The same with some of the old bugs that we still deal with that have been going on for years in Sonar that "are looked into and discussed" but never fixed. I'm not placing blame or pointing fingers, but it's definitely been the case in the years I've spent on the forum with what I've read. I know we'll never know the extent of how things work over there in the bakery and I'm sure they are flooded with requests, but it definitely makes you wonder as to why some of the things we've been crying about for years have never been implemented. As outsiders looking in, I'm sure even they'd understand our frustration with stuff like this.
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
|