kawika
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Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
Anybody experience the very very beginning of songs chopped (100ms) when burning a multiple song CD. I tried with the Sonar burner and my FreeStudio burner with same results. The multitrack is fine. One 2-trk-song, alone, burned to CD is also fine. Any ideas? thanks!
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bitflipper
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/20 10:02:48
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This can happen if the burning software hasn't been instructed to make a Red Book CD. Make sure you're specifying the required 2 seconds of silence at the front of the image.
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kawika
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/20 22:46:21
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Oh OK. Are there typically such choices in CD burner software? I guess I figured the burners (especially in Sonar) were already configured as such. thanks.
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bitflipper
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/21 11:26:41
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SONAR does not create a fully Red Book-compliant CD on its own, as it has no internal burner but rather uses Windows' limited built-in CD burning feature. Most importantly, the CDs SONAR/Windows creates cannot be sent out as-is for duplication, and may even be incompatible with some CD players. It's really just there for making one-off quick reference burns, not final masters. Most of us use dedicated CD-burning software for making CDs, with Nero and CD Architect being probably the most widely-used. There's a good chance your computer came bundled with some kind of CD-burning application, and in all likelihood it can make a Red Book CD.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Cactus Music
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/21 11:31:23
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The Windows burner is more for data than music. I use Nero 7 for burning and there are many other proper software programs too. Some are free. Try googling the "top 10 free CD burning apps". I find a lot of great software that way.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/21 12:28:40
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are your Sonar Projects starting on the very first Bar ? 1:01 ? if this is the case, as a test, try and drag the content to the second bar 2:01.
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Zargg
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/21 13:30:55
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chuckebaby are your Sonar Projects starting on the very first Bar ? 1:01 ? if this is the case, as a test, try and drag the content to the second bar 2:01.
This was my guess as well
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THambrecht
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/21 13:45:38
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We make many Master-CDs for our customer: There MUST be 250 to 400 ms silence in EACH wavefile before each song starts (Exceptionlive concerts). Export your song(s) to wav-files - then import this wavefile(s) on an empty project. Don't cut at the very beginning of each song. Just cut a half second before. So theres is a half second silence before the first song starts. Then export to new wav-files. Burn your Audio-CDs with NERO. Then there are no problems. The most CD-player need 100 - 250 ms to start and kill the first 0 - 200 ms.
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kawika
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/22 00:38:33
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Great info. I did not know that about sonar/windows burner; I will try another. I believe I have CD architect. If that doesn't work I'll slide content up. Thanks!
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kawika
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/23 21:40:38
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Although the Redbook issue may be in play. I suspect Chuckebaby has the correct diagnosis because many of my Sonar Projects begin at the very first measure. What is the most effective way to move song's content (many songs with 24-30 tracks with audio, midi, and automation)? Oh...and (just occurred to me)...What if?: Will Sonar export from multi to 2-track without error given a bar-1 starting point? If so, I could transfer the 2 tracks to something like Soundforge wherein you see the files and make sure there is sufficient space between tracks?
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chuckebaby
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/24 08:19:03
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kawika Although the Redbook issue may be in play. I suspect Chuckebaby has the correct diagnosis because many of my Sonar Projects begin at the very first measure. What is the most effective way to move song's content (many songs with 24-30 tracks with audio, midi, and automation)? Oh...and (just occurred to me)...What if?: Will Sonar export from multi to 2-track without error given a bar-1 starting point? If so, I could transfer the 2 tracks to something like Soundforge wherein you see the files and make sure there is sufficient space between tracks?
I've had some try to debate this, but I have found (in my travels) that by starting content at the 1:01 on the timeline...Burning or even export doesn't pick up on the first few milliseconds, sometimes even more than that of the material. Midi may react differently, by I know for a fact Audio does. Thus every project I create starts 1 bar in (@ 2:01). A simple 4 count. just like the old analog days ;-) Hit select all (SHIFT+A) and drag your content over to bar 2:01 and do a quick test. this will at minimum inform you if this is indeed your problem.
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bitflipper
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/24 14:36:01
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I, too, have long practiced starting songs after 1 measure for this very reason: a note that begins exactly at 00:00:00 will nearly always be missing a few milliseconds at the front. However, I assumed that not to be the OP's problem for two reasons. First, he stated that playback is OK. Second, he says it's about 100ms that's being lopped off, far more than the 00:00:00 phenomenon causes.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mettelus
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/24 14:40:40
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I still start songs at measure 2 as well. Initially was a midi on issue, but a habit that has continued for 20 years because it is safe.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/24 15:26:18
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What the problem is remains something of a mystery. There are three possibilities. The first is that the burning process somehow truncates/loses the data. The second is that the data is still there ready to play, but that the starting overhead of the CD player takes so long to begin the play that it runs into the song data, or more accurately does not start to produce audible output until the beginning of the data has passed. Like an automobile, a CD player and software does not go zero to 60 instantly. The third is that there is an error in the pointer to the location of the song beginning encoded in the cda file so that it starts the song after the beginning of the data. Disc at once files do not have actual breaks in the data continuity between songs, the songs are accessed separately by using the location information in the cda file. One test that might be tried is to rip the burned CD and then examine the wave file in a audio editor to see if the data is missing. The problem is that some of the same latency problems that cut off audible playback might carry over into the ripping process, so that a ripped wave that is truncated doesn't solve the problem. But a ripped wave that is complete would rule out any real truncation in the burning process. In any event padding the beginning of the wave with silence in an audio editor prior to burning would give time for the playback latency to be covered. Automatic or manual gap inclusion in a dedicated Red Book burner would have the same effect. It is doubtful that the song address pointer or truncation in the burning process is the problem.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/24 15:40:46
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bitflipper I, too, have long practiced starting songs after 1 measure for this very reason: a note that begins exactly at 00:00:00 will nearly always be missing a few milliseconds at the front. However, I assumed that not to be the OP's problem for two reasons. First, he stated that playback is OK. Second, he says it's about 100ms that's being lopped off, far more than the 00:00:00 phenomenon causes.
I wasn't debating you or anything man. I hope it didn't seem like that. I could be totally wrong in my opinion of what is happening here. TBH, im probably wrong more than I am right on this forum
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kawika
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/24 22:57:40
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Thanks guys...You've all given me several things to investigate. They all seem plausible. Unfortunately, I will be away from my studio till the weekend. I will let you know what the problem was when I get back.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Beginning of songs chopped when burning multiple song CD
2016/10/25 08:34:29
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kawika Thanks guys...You've all given me several things to investigate. They all seem plausible. Unfortunately, I will be away from my studio till the weekend. I will let you know what the problem was when I get back.
well please keep us informed. I would like to know what was causing this. (so I can be right...cough...cough...  )
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