Behringer SX4882

Hi there...

Hey I am looking for mixing down out of the box... At least a little... As I am in Brazil, I have a very few options to go for... In fact,I have, almost, no options... Equipment prices in here are, at least, 3 times more expensive than in US and, in most of the cases, if you buy a "boutique like" equipment, you'll have no assistance for it... No repair shops... Really sad.

I would like to have a AWS9000... But I can't afford it... Could be a Toft ATB 32 too (much less expensive)... But, here, it will costs something like 20 grant... And US dollar worhts 2 for 1 in Brazil.

That said, here is the thing... I got an opportunity to buy a brand new Eurodesk SX4882 for an unbelievable price, all legal, with local assistance, 6 month warranty, etc... The desk will cost me like U$1.000,00. Quite a deal... But I am not a Behringer entusiast, and I know there is no magic... If it is cheap, it will very probabilly sound cheap too...

Well, I have the VS 700 system, so, ther is 20 outputs (or more, not shure, I am only using 2 till now). My idea is to use the desk as an analog summing unit...

O.K., I am looking for some pieces of advice... Can you guys help me on it?

Thank you all.

Peace.

I own one ,,,,, And it sounds great ,,, Clean ,,  no noise ,,, In fact I A/B my Neve preamps with the pre's on that board and was amazed .  My Mackie SR40.8 is noisy and muddy compared to the Behringer ,,,, But everybody love Mackie  . The reason Behringer always gets a bad rap is mostly Pier group pressure and the fact that they don't QC Test their stuff like everybody else does ( Thats why the prices are so low) There is quality parts and design in there ,,,,, but like ALL produces ( even Pintech has a bad one right out of the box more times than not) Its so easy to blame and curse when the price is low .... I know alot of Harley owners that still love there product even though they always need to repair the damn things all the time! 

I have an sx4882. .. I run the 8 subs to 1 maudio profire 2626. The benefit I have is that with the push of a button I can swap instruments to record. With the 6 aux sends, I give different people more monitoring choices.... .. When I get one or two more profire, I can use the Direct Outs (something not put on many boards anymore) and still sum the sounds for tracking... The board is a bussing dream... no effects. The DAW takes care of fx after tracking... The only noise I've had come through while tracking was a dehumidifier running two rooms away. The pre-amps are alright for my purposes with the CAD 195 microphones that I use... Next time someone bellyaches about "Made In China," remind everyone how popular X-Boxes and iPhones are...

Well brother... I got all these plugs too... Plus UADs (1 quad + 1 solo) almost all plugs too... But, I am very curious to know how better a mixdown could sound if I end up in a hybrid situation, like, using a real desk to get the final mix, yet keeping the EQs, dynamics and effects inside the box...

Of course, if I could have a boutique analog summing, like the one's we can find at Vintage King, would be superb... But I can't... For many different reasons, one is money... As I said, here in Brazil things costs 3 times more than in US... And I don't make 3 times more money working with music... And 1 real worths 50 american cents... So, I believe you get the picture...

What I am trying to find out is, will it worth the investment keeping in mind that my main intention is to "analogly" summing my channels? Or this is a too poor circuit to make a positive diference?

Thanks for the inputs.

Peace.

I have serious doubts about achieving a better mix "outside the box" unless you are running it through some amazing vintage gear like a Neve or UA console.   
With all the routing options within sonar and all the plugins you have- you can't get the sound you're looking for?

It just seems incredibly unlikely that a Behringer board is going to be the answer.
Put that money towards some waves plugins.  

My guess is that the current modeling technology of vintage gear that you find in high-end plugins is better/closer than what a low-end analog board will give you.

This is just one man's opinion.  

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Digital to Analog then back to Digital just for a summing effect seems like loss of signal and some bit rez loss too.

John

ProMusic27

John

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Bad noise or good noise?


My Waves NLS have a button called "noise"... A good one I think.

There is no such thing as good noise.  Whatever one may think about this if you add stuff to a recording and its not intentional its a form of distortion. In fact any noise is.

The best way to think about this is if its not there in the instrument to begin with than its an artifact or a distortion. When you listen to live music that has not been amplified what noise is added? That sound should be the sound we are after. I don't buy the notion that analog noise is a good thing. For years engineers have been trying to rid audio circuits of noise yet those that for some reason like analog want it back. When I use the term engineers I mean real electrical engineers.

A no noise recording was the elusive holly grail of recording. Than digital came along and it was realized for the very first time to a degree. Why do we want to add noise to very quiet pristine recording? Its because some like obscuring noise that didn't let us hear what the real sound really was. Its a question of purity.

How many spend time listening to live music that is unamplified in great acoustic environments?

The first time one hears the human voice from a great singer without sound reinforcement in a proper environment than one will know what I am talking about.

Recordings in general are shadows of the real thing. Adding stuff to them in the form of noise just adds more obscuring distortion to what is already compromised by the very fact its been recorded.

One reason we tolerate this is rock music embraces distortion but its also always been amplified.

If you listen to music that is not amplified traditionally in a good listening environment one would be amazed at what one can hear. No recording can duplicate that. Its our job to try hard to get as close as is possible but its not completely achievable. Digital is our best hope.

Now to bring this back to reality one can add stuff if it will sound pleasing. Just keep in mind that its a distortion.

Very nice post John, imho.

John

ProMusic27

John

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Bad noise or good noise?


My Waves NLS have a button called "noise"... A good one I think.

There is no such thing as good noise.  Whatever one may think about this if you add stuff to a recording and its not intentional its a form of distortion. In fact any noise is.

The best way to think about this is if its not there in the instrument to begin with than its an artifact or a distortion. When you listen to live music that has not been amplified what noise is added? That sound should be the sound we are after. I don't buy the notion that analog noise is a good thing. For years engineers have been trying to rid audio circuits of noise yet those that for some reason like analog want it back. When I use the term engineers I mean real electrical engineers.

A no noise recording was the elusive holly grail of recording. Than digital came along and it was realized for the very first time to a degree. Why do we want to add noise to very quiet pristine recording? Its because some like obscuring noise that didn't let us hear what the real sound really was. Its a question of purity.

How many spend time listening to live music that is unamplified in great acoustic environments?

The first time one hears the human voice from a great singer without sound reinforcement in a proper environment than one will know what I am talking about.

Recordings in general are shadows of the real thing. Adding stuff to them in the form of noise just adds more obscuring distortion to what is already compromised by the very fact its been recorded.

One reason we tolerate this is rock music embraces distortion but its also always been amplified.

If you listen to music that is not amplified traditionally in a good listening environment one would be amazed at what one can hear. No recording can duplicate that. Its our job to try hard to get as close as is possible but its not completely achievable. Digital is our best hope.

Now to bring this back to reality one can add stuff if it will sound pleasing. Just keep in mind that its a distortion.

Spot on John...I helped my Son-in-law design and build his first 1176 comp, he now owns Mohog audio...he ran a studio in San Diego for a number of years and he told me "You are a noise freak" because I could hear noise and it bothered me that others dismissed...I took my Taylor back twice (With its very nice Neve designed preamp system) and the tech at the factory looked at me kind of dumb-founded because U complained about the small amount of line hiss, he said it was well below industry standard and I said, "Its completely unacceptable to me"...they ended up installing a special grounding system to get it below -80 db...my son-in-law has become a noise freak now that he builds and sells the gear, and I can promise his stuff is pristine quiet...unlike the racks of analog high end gear I prefer over the box...


I think if the OP is simply wanting a summing box there is a simply transformer based passive summing box design at GroupDIY...

Correct, but in an ideal environment you should be running a separate output amp anyway, that or powered speakers.

I think noise wise and for purely summing a passive attenuated transformer box is the way to go, Dangerous is way overpriced for what it actually contains, but if you are not a mild level electronics DIY'er (like I am, very limited) go ahead and get a console...I truly do not believe you will regret it.

In the last 20 years there have only been a handful of gear purchases that were complete and utter failures, everything else is simply a tool that can be adapted to your audio design.

I think we get lost in gear lust and forget the first rule of audio, it's your sound, it sounds like what you choose and you are the one who determines how you get your sound.

Every engineer needs a signature...that can come from either specific gear chains or through a series of evolutionary discoveries forced by gear chains...

Jimmylennon, I went through 2-SX4882 Eurodesk. The first I spilled some liquid in it or water, spend days taking it apart and it is heavy and not easy to take apart. I gave up fixing it (became noisy) and bought a new one. After a year with the new one I had trouble with the sound dropping out on the op-amps on 1-2 channels, using channels 1-24, I switched to channels 25-48 and used those until I sold it. It could be the power switch, I always used a remote control AC power strip or control to turn it on because it was hard reaching to the back the way my desk is set up. Try changing the line AC cord, it is standard. The Eurodesk made before the 4882, I think it was the 8080? Same schematic but different op-amps, it had a external power supply box, the power supply on the 4882 is inside, and a pain to get to, there is no user parts, or standard IC components to replace, it's wired to main board if I remember and no disconnect plugs. It's a gamble, but buy a A/C power remote, or power strip. Plug the 4882 in it, turn on the remote A/C strip or controller, cycle the power switch on the 4882 until it comes on, if it does do not touch that power switch on the 4882, use the remote from now. It could be the power supply there are no circuit breakers in the 4882 and fuses only work once. I got the  Westek RFK306LC on Amazon, and connected it to my power strip. It says outdoors, but works fine indoors to and has a great current rating. It cost less than $15. Note if it is the power switch, the unit is a pain to take apart and jump out. Good luck. I know there are a lot of people that say Behringer makes crappy products, but every company has a return and repair department. As far as mixers, I built a few for my own and a few small studios since the late 60's. You use what you got and get the best sound you can with it. Once the final mix, mastering is done and even before, with a good engineers you can't say what mixers were used or how much they cost, used Windows or Mac. But back in the day you could see the difference between Betamax and VHS. You walked into a studio and you used what they had, if you're good you can work on anything and get the best out of what's there. It's like a mechanic in a auto shop, some can fix everything and others can only work on what they were trained on or need aid with a computer. It was much easier when I had one compressor with two knobs, than to think today which one would sound better with this. I'd be there all day if tried everyone. Again I hope it's the A/C power line cord, and then maybe the switch. Since the model is discontinued I doubt if you could get the parts, and getting it fixed because it is so heavy and hard to take apart may not be possible.
   

thank you for your help..will.try.that..and.let.you.no.how.i.get.on.jimmy