Being a muti-instrumentalist.

Well,
I was just thinking the other day (talking to my wife about it), about focusing on guitar-playing only. It's what I do best. When I attempt to play other instruments, I just about get by with it. It seems to take away from the time & focus I should be putting in on the guitar. I know that having a home studio allows for all sorts of stuff to be possible, and a lot of people are very good at being multi-talented. I'm not talking about recording, just attempting to play keyboards, etc. I'm almost convinced in doing more collabs and having others lay down tracks doing what they're good at, rather than me doing a poor rendition. I don't want to use pre-programmed backing tracks as I'm a big fan of that "live" feel, mistakes and all. Besides, I ain't good at it.

I'd like to know how others approach their music, what they feel about collabs versus doing it all themselves, how it affects music, and so on. I've heard some very talented multi-instrumentalist on this forum and I'm envious. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. My keyboard is going into the closet.

I wont pretend that I'm good enough to answer your question, however I'm bored, and waiting on the Hong Kong Restaurant to open, so I will just go ahead and tell you what I do.

I guess I sould say first off, that I'm just a drummer. I started playing when I was 8, and I'm now 25 (so old, I know). I started computer based music with FL Studio, back when it was still called Fruity Loops, maybe 4 or 5 years ago ? I think it was version 2. I enjoyed it as a toy to play around with, and played it with it quite a bit - mainly because unlike guitar, you can almost never practice drums without offending someone (in my small subdivision anyway). So using it, allowed me to play music without the neighbors tearing my door down to be quiet. After about a year or two, I started to buy a few soft synths, and got used to playing keys (something I'd never even touched other than a 20 dollar Casio before this). I started to get used to playing drums on it mostly, and would use the midi data from the drum tracks, copy that to the synth tracks, and alter the data manually in the PR (FL's PR is so easy, it was / is no big deal to do it like this, unlike Sonar, who's PR is a nightmare in comparison). Then, I'd say, by now 2 years ago, some crackhead stole my 9 peice drum kit, rack cyms and all. It was a nice kit, even in it's used condition, I could of easily pulled 3 grand or more for it, and the crackhead (someone I and all my friends grew up with) sold the entire kit for 25 dollars - yeah, 25 dollars. So, he ending up going to prision (for stealing someone elses stuff, my kit is gone forever - long story about insurance)... Once that happened, I dove full force into computer based music, and went with Cubase, and later Sonar. Well, once I got into the more pro level aps, I started to set aside cash from every paycheck for soft synths, mainly NI stuff. I figured it was time to actually start playing the synth parts, rather than editing data that came from the drum parts I had made... Now, fast foward to present day. The way I approch it (I belive because of the background I just wrote - and why I wrote all that btw) is by pressing record in Sonar with NI Battery set up with whatever kit is the flavor of the day, and just playing. I may play for 15 mins or more. Then I go back, and find somewhere between a 4 to 16 bar part that I can loop (I usally have to go in and edit it a tad, just to get the looping right). Once I have that, then I can think of a bassline in my head, lie that down, and go to the next. Once I have all the tracks (imstruments) I feel is needed to complete that part of the song, I have a base to work with. From there, I go back to Battery, to make a bridge for the drums, and then go every track down from that. Same for breaks, change ups, etc. After all that is done, it's a basic "what I want", but it's extremly raw, and everything is out of place. So, I freeze every track, save that, export each track (seprate) just to desktop or something. At this point, I take all the wav's to FL Studio, because the destructive editing in FL is a breeze (or at least to me, since I'm so used to it). In FLS, I cut and chop away, moving cut part to where I want them to be. In other words, when I made the song in Sonar, I did it just one part at a time, not really as a complete song, so in FL, I'm cutting up and aranging all my parts to the song I was hearing in my mind in the first place - may seem like too much, but remember, this all started from me just goofing around with Battery while record was on. So, now, my song is put together in FL, so I just tic the "split mixer tracks" button in FL, to export the song back out as seprate wavs. I bring those wavs back into Sonar, and now it's time to get all the effects, automation, panning, seperation, etc done. All of which you already know how to do. So, after that is done, I export the single mixed down wav to SoundForge for final mastering / polishing. Then, I'm done, I have the song. I'm almost sure I'm the only one that does all this, or that does it this way anway, but, hey for me, it works...

-as a side note, I know I'll have a ton of spelling errors in there, please excuse them if you can

Larry, like you I'm, really just a guitarist who sings and can carry a fundamental bass line on a good day. But the allure of learning other instruments is simply to strong, even if it's just MIDI. And I frankly love the process of mixing as well. Sure, it detracts from my guitar skills, I'm getting downright rusty in that regard. So, yes, it creates a dilemma for those of us who only do this part time. But can you imagine if michelangelo had ONLY painted? (Not that I liken our skills to a Michelangelo. That would be hubris and we know what happens to those who do that!)
On the other hand, like you said, I recognize my limitations and I'm a big fan of collaborations.
Mark

I can sympathize with your dillema, but I wouldn't throw your keyboard out. A trick I use on the keys that works pretty well to give you a live feel is actually try playing it and getting it reasonably tight (doesn't have to be perfect) then go back in and edit slightly anything that sound out of wack. It's very important to use your ears and not your eyes while doing this. If it looks way off in the prv but sounds like it fits good then leave it. This way you get all the natural velocities and the human emotion peeking through.When I first started recording I would play it then line it all up perfectly and the result would be a sterile robotic sounding piano line.

I get bored with the same instrument quickly so I mess around with alot of different ones. The result being that I am no virtuoso on any of them but for the kind of stuff I do it works ok. For me it's all about the song and what is complimenting it. I know some guitarists that practice 4+ hours a day and they sound stiff as a board so I dont think it is always how much you practice. It's kind of funny, the instrument I am probably best on is acoustic guitar but i dont have a decent acoustic or a room, or a good acoustic mic etc etc, so it never gets put in my songs unless it's in a studio. I have always been more equipment challenged than musical I guess.

Drums are my biggest weakness. Programming them for a song is total hell for me. I can think like a drummer but getting that good feel out of the prv mode is really time consuming and very annoying. I would use loops but they never fit my songs. I'll spend 2 weeks getting a drum line right then 1-2 days recording bass, guitars, vocals etc.

How much time to spend on each instrument? That's something I've struggled with myself. Being a hobbiest with a job and a wife I don't find the kind of time for music that I wish I had. My primary goal is to write and record tunes. So my main focus therefore isn't guitar (guitar is my main instrument).

I focus on my weakest links in my ability to write and record tunes. So even though I doubt I'll ever be a really strong singer, I'm spending time trying to improve my voice. Same with the keyboards. For me keyboards and midi are such great tools for songwritting, so I want to give a lot of time working on keyboards. I'll even write/record some guitar parts (and almost always my bass parts) from the keyboards during the initial writing process because it's so easy to make changes of notes and/or sounds in midi from the piano roll while composing. I always rerecord with actual guitars for the final product.

If someone has the goal of being the best guitarist they can be, then certainly their approach would be different. But that's not my goal. Actually it comes down to what's the most fun/rewarding for me. Finishing the recording of a song I wrote is what I find the most rewarding. A hot guitar part is pretty cool, but for me it's the song that rules.

Very interesting comments from everyone. It looks like I won't be getting rid of my keyboard, but I will put it away for a time to focus a bit more on guitar. Like a lot of you here, many years were spent playing in bands and the focus was on playing a single instrument. I do luv the recording aspect as much as I luv playing guitar. It's the frustration of trying to do everything else that detracts from what I like doing. To be proficient at something, you always have to sacrifice something else. Maybe it's the mood I'm in today. I do agree that sometimes the creative juices stop flowing, and by noodling around with another instrument, generates the flow again. But it's a big PITA to do a complete song with all the instruments by oneself. I can never seem to capture that same vibe like I do on guitar. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm going to be sounding the horn a lot more when I need other stuff added. Please don't run away! Ya'all seem to take it so calmly and sorta go with the flow as you create and record songs (yeah, right) It's good to peek into the minds of others and to know your thoughts on this. I really appreciate your input. Maybe I'll start a musician's help-line and support group for the creatively challenged!! Ognis, Are you finally sitting down and eating??

dogz,
I here ya on the 3 finger keyboard playing. I do the same. Funny.

It looks like I won't be getting rid of my keyboard, but I will put it away for a time to focus a bit more on guitar.

Good plan.

I can play a few instruments well enough to develop at least a part outline. When it comes time to lay down the final / real track I'll usually practice the part a lot; if I'm not getting it tight enough, I have no qualms about firing myself and getting someone that can do the part properly.

I do like the process of putting together all the parts, but there's nothing like how another persons creative input can really kick up a piece to another level.

The great thing about being an auteur (sp?) in the home studio is that there's only one ego to deal with. If I want more cowbell, then damn it, I'll have more cowbell. If I want to do a song without guitars, there's no guitar player whose feelings will be hurt. One thing I find boring about most pop music is that all their songs want to use all of their members, most of the time, and most of them only play one thing and only play that one thing without a somewhat narrow range. But it keeps everyone happy. Everyone is playing all the time, everyone gets their solo spot here and there, etc...

I can rearrange my band on every song if I want, and I like that. Of course there is that thing about me insisting on having four handiwipes on my desk at recording time, arranged in a diamond shape oriented with the current lunar phase, and 2 chocolate chip cookies, medium chips, none too close to the edge, or I freak out and refuse to record. But those little things can be worked around.

Sheeesh droddey, I thought I was the only one with the medium chocolate chip requirement. Tough thing to be unique these days

Randy

I'm almost convinced in doing more collabs and having others lay down tracks doing what they're good at

That's a +1 for that statement.

Collaboration is extremely powerful...I think, not only, for the fact that you have others doing what they are best at.....but most importantly, like Ed said in his post, you get the Creative Input that they add to your song.

Sending your partially-built song off to someone and they come back with a modified part that you'd never think of in a million years.....wow - that, in turn, gives you the additional spark to take off with "ideas off their ideas", etc, etc.......suddenly your building a more powerful & broadened song.

And in this day & age, with tachnology allowing for such an easy & thorough ability to collaborate with others......we all probably don't take adavantage of it as much as we should.

I've done songs all by myself and also songs in collaboration; and I think in many ways, collaboration is actually more gratifying for me than the ones I did all by myself.

Jeff

Guitar has always been my main instrument. I'm not interested how fast I play as much as I am about good chord progressions and melody. Ufortunantly, sometimes the song calls for something more to be added to it. I don't want to get into programming drums at all.

You definitely don't have to 'program' them. I use a Trigger Finger (and there other variations on that theme out there) to play my drums. So I'm not doing loops or anything like that. I'm playing it 'live' and I'm using BFD which is effectively live recorded drums. So though I'm not playing a real kit, I'm definitely playing the drums. So you get realistic drumming plus it does provide you with a lot of ability to go back and correct mistakes and to change the dynamics of the performance as the tune comes together more.

Larry,
You definitely are not alone in your dilemma as evidenced by all the great replies. I think that you have created some very nice pieces and the non-guitar parts seem to fit just fine. I liked the collaboration piece I listened to also. I think you have a lot of avenues to try and maybe some days it's more fun to go down a particular avenue and another day you might pick a different avenue. Keep the keyboard and use it when it suits you. You'll only improve with time.

Here is a link where you can hear my Roland GR-20 synth in action (song is Common Source).
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=694823

I tell you what Larry. I bought my Roland Synth back in December with the pickup. I had planned to put it on my Kramer but it won't fit without making some kind of modification that I don't want to do. I'm not going to put it on my acoustic. If you want to try the synth route, I'll send it to you. You like it, you keep it. You don't like it, send it back. No strings attached.

Larry,
Well, I do owe you a bit of an apology as I forgot a very important detail about my pickup. The detail is that it does not work alone (the pickup), it must have a MIDI converter (Axon or a Roland GR-20 and maybe others) that it can attach to first before it can be used to lay down MIDI tracks or control any other MIDI devices. So while my offer was sincere, I overlooked the fact that you would have needed to purchase a 13 pin cord and a MIDI converter to make use of it. I can understand why one might not feel comfortable with the situation and I can respect that.

By the way, the pickup doesn't require any drilling. It can be attached that way if the user wants to but the more popular option is to use the double sided tape method although that can hurt your guitar's finish if you ever decide to pull it off. My Kramer simply does not have room between the bridge humbucker and the floyd rose tremolo bridge to even install it so that was my problem with that.

Godin also has a nylon string (or steel) thinline acoustic with built in piezo bridge and synth access. In the future I plan to buy one. I'll have to check out the Carvin. That's a name I haven't seen in awhile.

Hmmm.....maybe I'll have to go buy that Fender Telecaster I've been eyeing so I can put my pickup on that! Heh, heh.

I am still learning to use my synth and up to this point have only layed tracks down as audio. I've done some MIDI track laying experiments but never gone on to use it in a composition. I am interested in going in that direction since I can clean up the performance in Sonar. While I have a traditional keyboard synth, I am looking to make use of my guitar playing to add synth textures to my tunes. Your thread definitely caught my eye because of that.

OK, keep the good tunes coming.

Matthew,
Thanks for the encouraging words and listening to the song. I actually took the keyboards out of the closet this morning, set 'em up , and played a little. Later on, I went down to the local music store and picked up another acoustic guitar so I can set it up for an alternate tuning per Kenny's advice. I get bored very easily musically, and I just want to keep, fresh, interesting, ideas flowing. I promise I'll hold on to the synth!! Thanks.