bapu
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/01 21:52:02
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We are all on our own list.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the answer I'm sticking with.
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daryl1968
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/01 22:47:41
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foxwolfen
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/01 22:50:45
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UbiquitousBubba
Starise, I think you've got a good point here. There are different kinds of artists. Some creative mediums require different types and degrees of discipline in order to function within that particular form of art. Some artists must work for many years to develop the technique and precision to fully realize their artisitic visions. Others may work in an art form which does not require the same level of technical precision.
Some works of art display beauty in their structure and form. Some regard their content as more important than their form. Some are more logical while others are more emotional. Just as there are different types of intelligence, there are different types of art. Personally, we may value one form over another, but our values are not universal. What one person regards as beautiful another may view as ugly. Some value an intelligent, thoughtful, deliberate expression of an idea. Others value an emotional, gut-wrenching, chaotic expression of a feeling. Some want a mixture of those.
As a society, we are entitled to our preferences. We won't agree. Within music, we won't agree on what constitutes "Good Music".
Certain musical genres are defined in part by their structural format. While there are variations on the Blues, you can't abandon the structure and still play Blues. Some instruments require years (if not decades) of intense practice to master their technique. Music played with these instruments is usually played with technical precision rather than mindless abandon for this reason.
For many people, Art is not Art if there's no intellect involved in its creation. When a horse "paints" by flicking paint with its tail, these folks would not consider that "Art". By the same token, there are some people who believe Art is not Art if there's any intelligence involved. Art must be purely emotional, without the constraints of an intelligence to reign it in.
For this reason, an attempt to define one person as an Artist while at the same time declaring that someone else is not an Artist is biased at best. At worst, it is an insult.
I think we would do well to remember that our opinions about what constitutes good Art are purely our opinions and not absolute fact.
Put simply: everybody is right, and everybody is wrong. I think your horse tail flicking painting is a good example that art is nothing more than an emotional response to a stimulus, unique to each individual. It is not the object that is or is not art, but our perception of it.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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Starise
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 10:29:49
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Well said UbiquitousBubba...oh yeah, do you still have that ringtone? Ben- Just a FWIW and strickly my opinion. Forget the titles and the tendency to state your importance. Look at it this way- You already are important and your value is already accounted for independent of anything you do. If our value were dependent on our accomplishments,then some of us would be better than others based on that. Our innate value is the same no matter what we do. IMO the artist does what he/she does seperate from any kind of value as a human being. Like John T said, we just do it...the interest comes before the action,which explains my futile attempts at excersise. Moshakie- I have never seen anyone this non-conformist. How many ways can you do toilet paper? ( I don't know you, you don't know me...this was attempted humor...I repeat attempted)  I also like to try going home different ways and don't like the same all the time.
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John T
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 11:06:39
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Different routes home. That's edgy stuff.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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bapu
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 11:12:03
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John T
Different routes home. That's edgy stuff.
What they don't tell you is they use different cars and go to different homes. Edgier?
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Starise
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 11:13:14
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Yeah and I eat different kinds of bread occasionally...I know it's radical man.:)
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bapu
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 11:13:24
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Truly edgy non-conformist would be a different route each day but never to repeat the same route?
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Starise
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 11:21:13
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Sometimes I even wear my hair different....and try different shirts...not sure if Moshkiae is that radical.
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John T
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 12:04:13
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Sometimes, I'll be about to make a cup of tea, and SWITCHEROO! I make a coffee instead. I know you squares can't handle that, but that's your problem, daddio.
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Moshkiae
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 12:10:27
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BenMMusTechYou're right there is not much difference between a craftsman and a artisan. The artisan though could be considered a little more skilled, the craftsman has masterd their trade, the artistan starts to add their own personality to the craft. This is the best way to describe it. The same thing with that joke that I have mentioned before from Peter Michael Hamel's book. That one guy playing one note on one string, and singing along saying "I got it ... I got it ... I got it ... " and there are folks next to him going ... "What?" The perspective is not something that is possible for us to define. Castaneda, Vrowley, Fortune, Mathers, and so many other mystics say the same thing, but we still confuse the looking at the tree with the tree itself ... and the one thing that is difficult to understand ... much more so if you do and have done internal "light work" ... is ... this ... you can see the light and it helps you "see" some things ... but if you are "inside" that light, guess what you don't need ... the light ... why? you are the light! It's automatic, and the definition then changes and is no longer driven by point of view -- and I think that too many times, these discussions ... just like what is love and all that ... is a problem because the perspective is not the same. My definition of love, in words for you, is not the same as yours. Mine is influenced by "light beings" and "energies" inside that I can only explain as such ... and is not something that you or anyone else is likely to say ... oh yeah ... that's really cool and far out! But I can point you to books that I have found that have shown me these same colors, entities and feelings ... from Monroe, to Lilly, to Huxley, to Rampa ... to Crowley, to Castaneda ... and thus my appreciation for those as they helped me define something that everyone said was not true, and it is! Translating this to music ... is hard. I know it works in the "arts", but I will not define it, or want to put a name on it. How I know this works is based on my experiences directing in theater and film. I have used several exercises leading up to ... the actors being able to play off their ability to feel psychically what they are up to next, and how they will do it ... which adds a new ability to the whole process of how you deliver your lines, or notes. But you can not explain that here! Too much Sonar for some folks here to know/learn what you can do with anyone on the stage if they are willing to do it as well. It works ... and the result is a relationship on the stage in the work itself, that is magickal ... AND ... for my experience (and feeling of it), you know what it rivals? ... the prettiest moments in music you have ever heard. Because of all this ****, I tend to not enjoy discussing the meaning of art, or heroes or things that my stupid mind often likes to call "social-ist symbols" to get everyone to think alike ... and sometimes ... it's worst sister ... to make sure that they all agree with each other and share the same lipstick!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Moshkiae
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 12:11:57
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John T
Different routes home. That's edgy stuff.
Now go home and play 3 notes in 27 different moods and feelings. Let me know the result! And this is one of th emost important advanced acting exercises ... and it can translate to music, if you allow it to. It can also be used in painting. Personally, I do not think that a horse's ash painting is any better than Andy Warhol! Anymore than it is when you place some ink in a sheet of paper, then you fold it in half, and then you open it up to find some nifty designs that you could not think of before! The idea with all that "abstract stuff" is to displace your ideas ... and many people in all disciplines have abused the priviledge, but I had no conceived ideas of what the Tomato Soup can meant, anymore than I did Marilyn, or his film of people sleeping! Let's say, that the idea is to make sure you are aware of the feelings you have during that time you are involved with this moment or piece ... and this is something that is hard to discuss in a populist board when some folks simply don't give a ****! All the work by all mystics, is nothing but a serious attempt at defining that moment ... where we sometimes do not have words for it. The inevitable next chapter is ... that some folks will say that Sonar helps you find this inner side and intuition! Hahahaha ... I love that one! For them heroes are necessary! 
post edited by Moshkiae - 2012/05/02 12:20:31
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 12:27:36
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I remember passing the edge once. It was a long, long time ago. After the dragons, things have been somewhat peaceful. Sure, there was that whole "Falling Off Of The Earth" thing, but things have been fine. I admit that there have been times when I thought, "This is why so many other people follow their GPS." During the incident with the Rabid Eels, I thought, "Would it have killed you to take a known route twice?"
I get by. I wouldn't say I'm comfortable. Definately not comfy. None of us Edgies are. That's what the Hydras called those of us who end up here. I guess we're Edgy Non-Comfyists.
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John T
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 12:36:22
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It seems to me that all this mysticism stuff is neither necessary or sufficient for the creation of art.
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Moshkiae
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 12:57:56
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As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Starise
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 14:36:26
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"That one guy playing one note on one string, and singing along saying "I got it ... I got it ... I got it ... " and there are folks next to him going ... "What?" Sound familiar? I think I remeber this somewhere on the CH before.
post edited by Starise - 2012/05/02 14:37:35
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craigb
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 14:41:11
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I remember playing in a two-man beach volleyball tournament in Santa Monica. When we got there in the morning there was this guy playing a single bongo drum and completely oblivious to anything going on around him. When we finished late in the afternoon, he was still there, eyes closed, bangin' away...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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foxwolfen
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 14:50:01
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John T
It seems to me that all this mysticism stuff is neither necessary or sufficient for the creation of art.
Au contrair mon petit frere. It is EXACTLY what is required for the creation of art. Have you not been following along?
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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ampfixer
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 15:21:42
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So John T is your little brother.....Hmmmm... it's all beginning to add up.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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foxwolfen
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 16:22:02
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 I have no idea what that means, but ..ok. Glad its adding up for you.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 17:01:57
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IANAPBIAO (I Am Not A Painter, But I Am Opinonated), nor do I posess any graphic artisitic abilities in any way. I know nothing whatsoever abour such art. I can tell the difference between cave drawings and a painting by Salvador Dali. (Most of the time...) I make up for my complete and total ignorance with strong opinions.
It seems to me that in Art (painting, not music), it's all about the marketing. The worst painting imaginable becomes priceless if it was done by a Famous Artist. The objective quality of the work, the technique, the depth of vision, the expression of emotion is irrelevant. All the critics (and the public) seem to care about is the relative Fame of the painter. The perceived value of the work is based exclusively on the marketing of the Artist, not on the work itself.
Come to think of it, I guess that's a lot like the music industry after all.
Nevermind.
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BenMMusTech
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 19:20:59
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Moshkiae
BenMMusTech
You're right there is not much difference between a craftsman and a artisan. The artisan though could be considered a little more skilled, the craftsman has masterd their trade, the artistan starts to add their own personality to the craft. This is the best way to describe it.
The same thing with that joke that I have mentioned before from Peter Michael Hamel's book. That one guy playing one note on one string, and singing along saying "I got it ... I got it ... I got it ... " and there are folks next to him going ... "What?"
The perspective is not something that is possible for us to define. Castaneda, Vrowley, Fortune, Mathers, and so many other mystics say the same thing, but we still confuse the looking at the tree with the tree itself ... and the one thing that is difficult to understand ... much more so if you do and have done internal "light work" ... is ... this ... you can see the light and it helps you "see" some things ... but if you are "inside" that light, guess what you don't need ... the light ... why? you are the light! It's automatic, and the definition then changes and is no longer driven by point of view -- and I think that too many times, these discussions ... just like what is love and all that ... is a problem because the perspective is not the same.
My definition of love, in words for you, is not the same as yours. Mine is influenced by "light beings" and "energies" inside that I can only explain as such ... and is not something that you or anyone else is likely to say ... oh yeah ... that's really cool and far out! But I can point you to books that I have found that have shown me these same colors, entities and feelings ... from Monroe, to Lilly, to Huxley, to Rampa ... to Crowley, to Castaneda ... and thus my appreciation for those as they helped me define something that everyone said was not true, and it is!
Translating this to music ... is hard. I know it works in the "arts", but I will not define it, or want to put a name on it. How I know this works is based on my experiences directing in theater and film. I have used several exercises leading up to ... the actors being able to play off their ability to feel psychically what they are up to next, and how they will do it ... which adds a new ability to the whole process of how you deliver your lines, or notes.
But you can not explain that here! Too much Sonar for some folks here to know/learn what you can do with anyone on the stage if they are willing to do it as well. It works ... and the result is a relationship on the stage in the work itself, that is magickal ... AND ... for my experience (and feeling of it), you know what it rivals? ... the prettiest moments in music you have ever heard.
Because of all this ****, I tend to not enjoy discussing the meaning of art, or heroes or things that my stupid mind often likes to call "social-ist symbols" to get everyone to think alike ... and sometimes ... it's worst sister ... to make sure that they all agree with each other and share the same lipstick!
Yes but Moshkiae, it's so much fun to stir!!! I'm a naughty (and if I can use the word without sounding like I'm bignoting myself, which I often get accused of) mystik. I love that just a few little words and all of a sudden people are scratching their head, and asking questions. Questions of themselves, questions, have I just insulted everyone again, questions, is that bens ego coming through again and big noting himself. I sit here and piss myself. I believe if I have read you corectly you question whether mystism and music can match, I have to say they can. Music because it's sound waves can do amazing things to the bodies chemical structure add some different illicet and non illicit herbs and it can do wonders. An example is in war, the scottish had the bagpipes, the romans had horns and the english had drums. All of these devices were designed to elicit fear in the enemy. So music is perhaps apart from alterted states of consciousness can elicit the biggest answers within ones self, and of coures music in itself can atler ones consciousness, think of the monks and their head singing. Hmm never mind the bollocks, lets have a real conversation anout how to become better learners and by proxy better human beings!! Neb
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Mooch4056
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 21:01:38
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Standing in the rain
with his head hung low
Couldn't get a ticket
it was a sold out show.
Heard the roar of the crowd
he could picture the scene.
Put his ear to the wall
then like a distant scream.
He heard one guitar
just blew him away
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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bapu
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 21:26:06
(permalink)
Mooch4056
Standing in the rain
with his head hung low
Couldn't get a ticket
it was a sold out show.
Heard the roar of the crowd
he could picture the scene.
Put his ear to the wall
then like a distant scream.
He heard one guitar
just blew him away
He's a Mooch Box hero With stars in his eyes
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trimph1
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 22:13:55
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I thought it was a lunch box hero.....
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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BenMMusTech
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/02 22:21:26
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I wrote a song about being a lunchbox hero, I wish I could remember it. it was a really cool lyric and melody!!
Neb
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Moshkiae
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/04 12:20:29
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Starise
"That one guy playing one note on one string, and singing along saying "I got it ... I got it ... I got it ... " and there are folks next to him going ... "What?"
Sound familiar? I think I remeber this somewhere on the CH before.
I'm quoting that from Peter Michael Hamel's book ... and that book trashes popular music like nothing you have ever seen! It's called "From Music to the Self" and other than the trashing, it's a very neat book about a couple of things "inside" with music, that most people will never read about, or check, or learn. Only one other person has written about this ... Nevill Drury. Some new age books about color and notes and music are ... not even worth mentioning!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Starise
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/04 12:36:08
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Thanks for referencing that quote Moshkiae. I had thought it was something to do with AM.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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jamesg1213
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/04 12:43:33
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Moshkiae
I'm quoting that from Peter Michael Hamel's book ... and that book trashes popular music like nothing you have ever seen! It's called "From Music to the Self"
' Through Music to the Self'. As it was written in 1976, I couldn't blame him for trashing popular music, he hadn't heard punk yet. Probably heard Showaddywaddy though.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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daryl1968
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Re:Ben's Blog Pt1-A Response to Mike's topic on why artists don't seem to be aware!!
2012/05/04 12:46:53
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jamesg1213
Moshkiae
I'm quoting that from Peter Michael Hamel's book ... and that book trashes popular music like nothing you have ever seen! It's called "From Music to the Self"
'Through Music to the Self'.
As it was written in 1976, I couldn't blame him for trashing popular music, he hadn't heard punk yet. Probably heard Showaddywaddy though.
Tiger Feet by Mud was the real game changer
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