Best Keyboard To Buy

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Disrezoloution
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2013/10/11 18:49:54 (permalink)

Best Keyboard To Buy

Just wanting some feedback here. If you needed a keyboard to use both at gigs that you cant take your computer to and at home in your studio for use with X3, what would you buy? I have been thinking about the Korg Kronos X. Thought about the Yamaha Motif but it has been out for a long time and I see it going the way of the dinosaur soon. I like the sounds of it so I bought the MOX8. I currently have for hardware synths Ensoniq ZR76, Korg Krome, Yamaha MOX8, Roland Lucinia. For VSTs I have Omnisphere, and all of the Producer X3 VSTs. I will be playing 80's - today music. Any Suggestions?

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/12 00:22:02 (permalink)
    It is easy. Kurzweil PC3K6/7/8 Superior sound to all the keyboards you have mentioned. Period. I have had them all. It kills! I used to have a battery of hardware instruments, now it is down to one really. When it is this good, it is all you need. There is a fantastic (free) editing program for it and today I installed and started using it for the first time and it is simply amazing. If you get the Kurzweil make sure you put Kore 64 memory expansion in it. It is well worth it. There is also a ton of free sounds up on the website. I have over 4000 patches in mine now!
     
    Watch out with Korg. They brought out Oasys and charged $15,000 for it then later dropped it and brought out Kronos for under $4000. They are not good at long term support. Kurzweil sounds better than Kronos, I have A/B ed them. Yamaha are not in the business of producing decent synths anymore. From Roland the only thing worth having now is the Jupiter 80. Nice instrument but Kurzweil can do everything it does and more.
     
    The PC3K6/7/8 are all the same internally just the keyboards are longer and weighted (PC3K8) Up to 32 layers per note! 16 high quality effects processors on board (yes 16!) 16 part multi timbral. You will start using it with your computer more and more and you will use less and less VST's. No CPU load on your computer, no latency either. Has USB connection direct to your computer if you want as well. Oh it has an built in virtual organ emulator (KB3) and analog synth emulator as well (VA-1 Note this was a huge hardware analog modelling synth they brought years ago that did not take off but it just so happens to be built inside the PC3K now!) on top of the main synth.
     
    The more you hear and work with the Kurzweil the more you realise how less than incredible all the other stuff actually sounds a lot of the time. No I don't work for Kurzweil but I sure would like to though!
     
    (now we wait and observe all the non Kurzweil believers come out and defend their toys! )

    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/10/12 06:38:54

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    Stipes Vigilo
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/22 03:51:40 (permalink)
    Sound is always subjective to the player. 
    Kronos is my favorite, Motif is next.  I really don't like to take my Kronos-88 out of the studio though. My MotifXS rack with a controller fits the bill everytime. I've thought about getting the XF with a 76 keyboard to do this instead since my two controllers are a 61 & 88.
    And the Kurz sound has never done anything for me.

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    Stipes Vigilo
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/22 03:51:50 (permalink)
    Oh, and as far as engine comparisons... Kronos has nine engines with plenty of different sounds.
     
    For gigs and to add another controller, I'd still pick the Motif.
    post edited by Stipes Vigilo - 2013/10/22 04:04:52
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    Shambler
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/30 05:44:43 (permalink)
    I would steer clear of Kronos based on my recent experience with build quality issues.

    If I was going to gig then I would be very confident with a Kurzweil both in build quality and great sounds.

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/30 16:20:20 (permalink)
    Well said John. Kurzweil simply has the sound and it is superior to all the others, Kronos included. It does not matter how many engines it has, Kurzweil has a few engines too but in the end it comes down to the sound that comes out regardless of the number of engines involved.
     
    I have a friend who works in a shop (where they specialise and sell Korg products) and he owns a Kronos and was all over it. Until one day I visited him in the shop and took him to the Kurzweil website and he watched the vids there and became quite interested. Then I think he borrowed one and tested it againist his Kronos. He also told me his Kronos froze up the other day as well meaning there are possible OS issues. The Kurz has never frozen for me or done anything wrong.
     
    The other day I went in there to buy a lead and had a chat to him. He said to me very quietly don't tell anybody but I have got my Kronos up for sale now and going to buy a Kurz instead. This guy was all over the Kronos like I said but now he has seriously changed his tune and selling it. I have had both side by side in my studio and done some serious testing. Kronos is nice but the Kurz can match it in every way and better it in most cases.
     
    The new Kurzweil Artis stage piano is also very cool. And it is loaded with PC3 sounds too. It includes one of the finest acoustic pianos ever including any VST out there.
     
    http://www.innovativemusic.com.au/artis.html
     
    Steve is a very nice guy and a great player too.
     
    The Kurz just sits in a complex mix too in a way the others don't. You don't need any procesing on the Kurz tracks, just push the fader up and it is there bang in your mix and very much so. The other synths require a lot of processing to just make them heard in a dense mix and they never seem to sit right even with that. Once you hear it for a long time as well the others almost sound tinny compared to it, Yamaha included.
     
    Their slogan is 'It's the Sound' and in a way it is true. I know this is advertising hype but interesting that Andrew Lloyd Webber people going out and performing his musicals tried every synth out there to use live instead of taking out full orchestras and they chose the Kurzweil over everything else and I mean everything. I can sort of understand it. The orchestral sounds are simply breathtaking.
     
    I do like Roland stuff though and I have an old JD800 here and I must admit it sounds huge too. But then again that was a rare synth and it might be a special case. I think the Jupiter 80 would be something to try though. I have heard it sounds great too. Haven't had the opportunity to get it here and compare but if I do I will post some info about it for sure.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/10/30 16:35:43

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    Stipes Vigilo
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/31 01:26:29 (permalink)
    Anecdotal blather aside, people prefer the Kronos and Yamaha sound. So it always comes down to subjectivity, and some do prefer the Kurzweil. I've tried out quite a few Kurz when shopping for a board, and they've never impressed me enough to buy them (even when they were 'giving them away).
    "It's the sound" is the very reason I don't buy a Kurzweil.
     
    And for gigging, I'd still go with a Motif over both of them.
     
    (Btw, I see the Kurz LE has numerous user complaints on a few forums too.)
    post edited by Stipes Vigilo - 2013/10/31 01:35:39

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/31 07:26:59 (permalink)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDOru3HrHmI
     
    This one is a bit weird because the Motif is not in stereo for some reason. But you can still hear the superiority of the Kurz sound.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A27SEPAX90
     
    The Roland towards the end of this doesn't even get a look in much.
     
    A music shop is not the place to compare things like this. A gig is a good place but it is hard because if you are in the same band then you are hearing the same keyboard sounds. If you are lucky enough to move around in different bands then you have to rely on your memory more. As a drummer I have played with many different keyboard players. One thing I do know is the Ensoniq TS10 did not sound good live! That player traded it in for a Fantom later and the sound improved a lot live that is all I remember.
     
    I have been lucky enough to have had several keyboards like the Kronos, Motif, Fantom etc in studio conditions (not all at once) for many many hours (days) comparing to the Kurzweil and in all cases the Kurz came out on top. Set perfect level matching, full stereo etc, perfect monitors and conditions etc..And tracked these things too and blended them into dense mixes etc. (that is a real test, Kurz kills in that department)
     
    But yes it is all a matter of preference I guess. One mans meat is another mans poison. For me though the Kurz wins everytime. It just has that emotional sound that moves me everytime I play it.
     
    Of course if you are really serious about buying a synth or workstation etc ultimately you will have to try these things out for yourself and not listen to what we are saying here too much. It is a bit like studio monitors. You cannot really take advice on those much either. You have to get in there with a great ref CD and just listen to all of them and see which ones do it for you the most. Like anything I guess.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/10/31 07:57:58

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    spacealf
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/31 14:35:11 (permalink)
    Roland sounds the best. Actually none of them sound quite right! Did not listen to all of the first video.
    And it is how you set the instrument anyway which can always be changed I suppose, but all I know is about the Roland.
     
     
     

     
     
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    backwoods
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/10/31 16:52:45 (permalink)
    I have a Kurzweil PC3x and use it for inputing midi and gigs. 
     
    If I had to do it again I would probably get a Motif. The action on the newer Rolands are spectacular and another one you might think about if you can get it second hand is the Kawai with the wooden keys- they were supposed to be damn good. Nord's are terrific too- their hammond emulators are much better than the Kurzweil one.
     
    I would say- go to the shop and try a bunch- then go home and read the internet reviews of the ones you liked best. Good luck and tell us how it goes.

     
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Best Keyboard To Buy 2013/11/01 01:24:34 (permalink)
    I certainly do not agree that the Roland was the best in fact I thought it performed the least out of the three. But it is a bit unfair. The RD700 while sporting some decent pianos may not have the best of their synth sounds in there. And their pianos were still not in the league of the Kurz anyway. I would like to hear the Roland Jupiter 80 up against the Kurzweil, that would be a much fairer test.
     
    The Kurz Artis while primarily a piano instrument as well does have some of the PC3 sounds in there and they do sound as good as the synth but it still only represnts a fraction of what is in fact in the synth.
     
    Nords I have found are good for organs and electric pianos, they are strong on those but not much good for anything else. I have recorded all their models at one time or another here in my studio and I still have that view. It is not money well spent. The Kurz can do the organs easily and the electric pianos too but a whole raft of other stuff too making them far more versatile.
     
    I agree with backwoods in that you just have to really figure out what you want from the instrument and try them out. For example it is studio performance I am after and the Kurz is one of the best in that situation. For live playing you may need a different approach. Although I have never heard a Kurzweil sound bad live either.
     
    Some more comparisons. These are quite fun to watch. This one is quite cool. I must admit I like the sound of the Nord in this too. Update: I was at a party last night and chatting to a guy who owns the Nord Stage or the one that is supposed to be able to do the synth sounds and he backed up my original thought in that he said it is way inferior in the synth department compared to others that are very strong in that area.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX0aEnasa6Q
     
    And another one:
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krluY7teTfI
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/11/01 21:08:21

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