Helpful ReplyBest Practices ? using Sonar Xx

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John
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2014/11/06 14:26:16 (permalink)

Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx

Its time to revisit this subject. A lot has changed since the last time we had this sort of thread. 
 
This is a thread meant to be contributed to. I want as many ideas and ways of doing things as can be posted. 
 
Best practice for setting up hardware. Although many hardware synths and controllers have USB connectors I find it very simple to use a MIDI port to hook up my hardware. A multi port can handle multiple inputs and outputs and has the nice attribute of using only one USB port. I use the CW USB MIDI interface two of them connected together giving 6 ins and 6 outs.
 
This will mean you need to have power to your hardware independent of USB. The MIDI ports I have are always connected. 
 
I have all my hardware on a single switch using a power strip for computers that is also good for audio hardware. 
 
Before I start Sonar or any other audio software that will use my hardware I turn it one with the single switch. I wait for the audio interface to connect and than and only than I load up Sonar. 
 
I have been doing this this way for a long time and have not had a problem with gear not being recognized by Sonar.
 
 
Another thing that will help is use a separate HD for your projects It can't hurt to have one for samples too.
Sonar is happy installed on Drive c: and is a small footprint. If however you put your projects on the drive C: too they could at some point be lost. I don't care if my drive C: goes down as much as some because I have my projects on another disk.
 
As a bonus  things should work more responsively due to not having to wait for disk access.
 
The above was for getting the ball rolling. I hope to hear from all of you. 
 
Please keep this on topic. The idea is to give the forum a way you do things that you think works well.  This is how you use hardware with Sonar and how you use Sonar. Work flow and tips for streamlining  the over all process of tracking, mixing and mastering if you do that. The rule of thumb is Best Practices. 
 
 
 
post edited by John - 2014/11/07 13:09:49

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John
#1
ampfixer
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 15:57:38 (permalink)
I have a few practices learned over time.
 
1. If possible, always connect USB interfaces and controllers directly to the PC and avoid USB hubs. If you have to use a hub be sure it's externally powered.
2. Disable all onboard sound modules. This includes PC and video cards.
3. Be sure to keep all drivers up to date.
4. Whenever Sonar starts to act up (no pun intended) I always look for non-Sonar system changes like windows update.
5. My machine is online at all times, so I do regular malware scans.
 
That's my core best practices. They have nothing directly to do with Sonar but seem to keep my system stable. A stable system is the best thing to make Sonar run well.
post edited by ampfixer - 2014/11/06 23:17:44

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 16:30:02 (permalink)
Nice post John thank you.

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johnnyV
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 16:48:41 (permalink)
Great Idea John
I'm just building a new DAW so all is fresh for me. 
The Computer: 
I like to keep my C drives lean and mean. New build is a 128 SSD drive. 
Drive # 2 ( move from old daw) is 1TB 7200 RPM all things audio on here. 
Drive #3    500 Gig drive used for hourly/ daily  back ups.
Drive # 4 External Drive used at least weekly.
Specs are now not an issue as I would think we all have at least an i5 and lots of RAM.
Windows 8.1 was a better buy, so..goodbye W7.  
I don't need to be on line as I have lots of other computer I can use for that. 
Run the Latency monitor SAP   http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
I found Craig's tip about the HD audio bang on, it was the worst culprit. Disable it. 
 
I see a lot of posts here with people screwing up where they keep there Sonar files. Please folks, take the time to manage your files, Don't let Sonar do this, it will put everything in one folder. 
My method has worked for years and I have not even come close to disaster or mixing up my files. 
Use Dates on containment folders which should be on a DATA drive or at least a partition drive. 
Example , my new DAW will have all my Sonar files on the DATA drive I cloned and swapped over from the old DAW. 
All I need to do is tell Sonar to open at the root of that drive in the folder preferences. 
When I click -File /Open I'm there. I then browse to the folder I'm working on. Each is Named as an Album, Band or Client and dated. 
Ex  "Bruce Baker-11-05-14"  
Inside is a folder for each song
Inside each song folder is the CWP, The Audio folder, a MIDI copy*  and other miscellaneous stuff like lyrics and any material used for the song like a MP3 file of the original, a rough demo etc. 
When I back up the whole containment folder I will re Date the Back up folder. 
At this point I have about 20 of these "albums" and most have at least 6 dated copies. Still lots of room on my drives. 
 
* Johnny's Tip of the Day- Make sure you perform a "save As" and to "MID type 1"  occasionally. This will make a    Future proof back up of what might be the most important part of each song file. I still work with my Atari files from 1985. That's 20 years gone by and they are still un changed. 
Midi don't care about Sample rates, bit rates, what plug ins , which software and so on. Over time the sounds only improve as we are given better playback devices. 
 
 
post edited by johnnyV - 2014/11/06 20:37:08

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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 17:04:19 (permalink)
You know Johnny that last tip is an excellent one and one I don't recall ever seeing before. Save as a type 1 MIDI file. This is very important for anyone that creates MIDI or is editing it. If the CWP file goes south that MIDI file will come in very handy. 
 
Great tip.

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John
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 17:05:57 (permalink)
BTW this thread isn't just for Johns. LOL

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John
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Anderton
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 20:31:19 (permalink)
An uninterruptible power supply is one of the best investments you can make not only for data security, but component longevity. And although in the immortal words of Herman Cain "I don't have facts to back this up," I think it contributes to software stability as well. Those little micro-brownouts and spikes that happen all the time have an effect.

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Anderton
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/06 21:09:50 (permalink)
 In addition to the hard drive that stores a work in progress, I have three kinds of backups.
 
  • A USB stick plugged into the computer. I save the day's work to that just in case the computer screws up. This is basically "scratchpad backup."
  • At a point close to completion or after being completed, projects get backed up to a second hard drive.
  • Optical does the archival storage. DVD-ROM for some individual projects, but after accumulating enough material that needs to be backed up, I use Blu-Ray for serious storage.
 
Through some weird law of nature, people who don't back up often need to retrieve files...but they're not there. People who have extensive backups hardly ever really need to retrieve files. It's like protection money to the mob - if you pay it, they leave you alone.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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TremoJem
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 07:03:03 (permalink)
Great stuff here. Here are a few of my practices.
 
Power to a filter/spike protector then to two UPS's.
 
I keep my computer, Glyph and interface on one UPS and everything else on the other, for example, powered monitors.
 
I run a 40" main LCD without UPS support, but have another 20" that is connected to the UPS with the powered monitors. I have somewhat frequent power outages as a result of my very rural location, so better to be safe than sorry.
 
I have switches/power strips used for powered monitors for convenience and also practice the idea that all interfaces or any hardware connected to the PC should be powered up before Sonar is launched.
 
I have two internal HDs, one for the OS and one for audio. I have one Glyph 7200rpm 1TB external HD (USB3), two Lacie 500GB (USB3) external HDs (keep one offsite), and one USB2 500GB external HD by Seagate along with one 32GB and one 64GB thumb drives just to move data from the tracking Laptop to the Mixing/Mastering Desktop.
 
I also run the network cable thru my UPS...sounds good right?
 
I use Acronis and have two back ups currently available. One from original build by Jim at StudioCat and one for the upgrade to X3e. I have recently loaded some great plug ins and it might not be a bad idea to make another back up. I am not really up to speed on the terminology or complete understanding of this, but had to use it once already and it worked great for completely restoring the entire system as if I had just went for a walk and came back. Completely seamless and perfect. I guess it is a mirror image or something...sorry, if I was sitting in front of the system now I could tell you, but I am not...sorry.
 
I too, create dated folders of every project and when I open a folder everything I need is there.
 
Not anything new here, but I hope it helps.
 
 
 
 
 

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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 09:49:04 (permalink)
johnnyV
[...] I like to keep my C drives lean and mean. New build is a 128 SSD drive. [...]



Be very diligent about deleting temporary files on that setup and ensuring caching does not go there (things like Melodyne and video editing). Video will eat space the quickest of them all. I had 40 GB of junk video caches when I began using Premiere Pro which I then defaulted to the main F:\ directory (magnetic) - this way I could easily see/find them and either move them to their proper place or delete them. Just "fiddling" with Melodyne had put 6 GB on my C drive before I caught on.
 
An interesting "maintenance" technique is actually in Windows Explorer search functionality (Win7 +), which is first search for "Gigantic" (> 128 MB) files, then "Huge" (16-128 MB) ... if the files that pop-up are data files, it is a good time to check preferences on the programs used which are creating them.

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Royal Yaksman
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 10:11:36 (permalink)
Before doing anything, I ask myself, "Do I have the talent to even bother?..."
 
Now of course the answer is a resounding, "NO!" So I find the best practice is to work on your denial, before starting anything! Just work on getting that self-defeating pride and all round lack lustre panache, into a hardened callous! Self delusion is your hard earned reward!
 
From there, you are just a few beers away from having the courage to commit that Cosby Sweater of a sound, to tracks! In the past, sub-mediocrity awaited... But thanks to better VST's and Melodyne? You are just that much closer to almost not sucking!
 
Which brings me to the second to last step: Have a few more beers and marvel at yourself in solitude!
 
Final step: Get an equally inebriated friend to listen to the track. That friend can then heap fake, drunken praise, dripping with euphemisms and unearned back pats, upon your sozzled soul!
 
There, you are done! A legend in your own basement...

Royal Yaksman
 
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 10:56:47 (permalink)
Thats rather depressing Royal.

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John
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 11:23:18 (permalink)
Sorry, but this is not a thread for fixing problems. I would start a new thread and post this there if I were you. 

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John
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 13:01:15 (permalink)
Another idea is if one can get another display monitor. The X series is built for duel monitors. Yes it works better than 8.5 did on a single monitor but it really shines with two. 
 
 

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John
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johnnyV
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 13:17:33 (permalink)
Hey John , your a forum host, that might come in handy to delete pointless posts, (like a few above :) 
It would be nice if people post the OT and not ask questions. I'm learning already.
 
Mettelus- I change most all of Sonars file paths to my DATA drives. Some I never use, like Video,  so they stay default.  So my best practice is always take control of where any software stores my files. If you look in my default windows folders, they are all empty. Only one gets used is "downloads" which of course rarely will be used as that stuff is done on another machine. The big difference I think around here is having a DAW off line makes housekeeping way simpler. Those who use their DAW for everything have a bigger challenge at managing what happens behind their backs in C drive. And that is why I stay offline. I don't need to be dealing with all that weird stuff. My Computer will be the same from day to day for a long time running.   
 
Johnny's tip of the day#2 - "CTRL W"   Toggles the now time behavior. This is handy for when you want the now time to either return to where you was, say for punch in re takes, or stop dead in it's tracks, for when you hear a turd that needs polishing.  

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#15
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 13:37:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/11/07 18:03:04
When I start working with a new DAW I test and adjust for latency with out delay


#16
John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 13:45:01 (permalink)
Johnny nice tips, thank you. 

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John
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Tremor
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:09:42 (permalink)
Thanks for deleting my post....but with respect... you are not me!!
 
I would have thought that any constructive input on the use of the TI chip-set issue with Firewire was a positive angle on best practice - and perhaps help others avoiding a potential pitfall.
 
Or is "best practice" intended only for the realms of the elevated??

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gswitz
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:13:52 (permalink)
I have a sticker on top of my interface reminding me to check wifi and latency on whatever I plug it into so I don't forget. Proper practice latency is not proper live gig latency (where all monitoring is direct through the interface).
 
I'm also quick on the interface total reset. Sometimes all the routings of the previous gig don't apply.
 
I'm a heavy user of track templates (although for some reason I don't use a lot of project templates).

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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soens
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:22:24 (permalink)
I also use a USB hub, originally so 2 computers could share everything as my printer is on it too. Normally it works fine. However, occasionally Windows will not recognize some of my hardware so I end up flipping the hub's power switch ON & OFF to get it working or else connecting direct.
 
2 monitors
 
All hardware that can be is rackmounted with an 8-switch power strip so I can select what I want ON without powering up everything at once.
 
The only thing missing is a surge protector/battery backup. Mine died in the line of duty a few years ago and have failed to replace it. It is top of my list for this month as we are entering the "power outage season".
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:25:08 (permalink)
Tremor
Thanks for deleting my post....but with respect... you are not me!!
 
I would have thought that any constructive input on the use of the TI chip-set issue with Firewire was a positive angle on best practice - and perhaps help others avoiding a potential pitfall.
 
Or is "best practice" intended only for the realms of the elevated??


Sorry, I was asked to delete what some thought as off topic posts. When I read your post I thought it was for help and did not think it was right for this thread. If I was wrong I heartily apologize. I will make errors and I will be wrong sometimes. I am human. 
 
A PM would have been a better way to contact me.  

Best
John
#21
John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:27:57 (permalink)
gswitz
I have a sticker on top of my interface reminding me to check wifi and latency on whatever I plug it into so I don't forget. Proper practice latency is not proper live gig latency (where all monitoring is direct through the interface).
 
I'm also quick on the interface total reset. Sometimes all the routings of the previous gig don't apply.
 
I'm a heavy user of track templates (although for some reason I don't use a lot of project templates).


Thank you for your post. May I ask what you have that would need to be reset? 



Best
John
#22
soens
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:29:01 (permalink)
Another idea is if a post is going to be deleted or moved, send a note to the OP so he knows what's going on.
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John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:34:20 (permalink)
soens
Another idea is if a post is going to be deleted or moved, send a note to the OP so he knows what's going on.


A note is sent. 

Best
John
#24
soens
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:46:25 (permalink)
Excellent! 
#25
bapu
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 18:52:09 (permalink)
Let tube devices warm up longer than the boot up time for non-tube gear.
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/07 23:21:07 (permalink)
1) Go through the tasks that are set up in windows task scheduler. You don't want many tasks to be running when recording.

2) If you use antivirus and malware products (I hope you do) make sure you exclude Sonar folders and processes from real time scan. Also MS has recommendations on files and folders to exclude.

3) Check to see what programs are running on startup and disable what you don't need. cc-cleaner is a very good way to do this there are other methods.

4) Yes latency monitor! But equally as useful and often overlooked is process explorer and process monitor utilities on the MS website if you want to fine tune.

5) Disable windows services you don't need. Uninstall software you don't use that includes windows components.

6) Use windows update regularly. Update your drivers and firmware regularly. Update your software with latest patches (that includes Sonar and plugins).

7) Don't install non DAW software. Consider dual boot if you want to play games etc. Keep your build lean and mean.

8) Backup backup backup to external hard drives using imaging software such as acronis.

9) Pay attention to power management, that includes throttling and speedstep as well as windows power profiles.

Ta

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#27
John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/10 11:02:32 (permalink)
Latency the bugaboo of DAW users. Most users know how to use the drivers that come with their quality audio interface new user may not.
 
Sonar can use WDM and ASIO plus MME.For most ASIO is a good choice. I prefer WDM simply Sonar can adjust the latency via the buffer settings directly. With ASIO you have to go through the ASIO panel.
 
In most cases it wont matter which of the above driver models you chose. However, avoid MME because it is not meant for low latency.  
 
A word about ASIO 4 All do not use this its not for a modern audio interface with proper drivers. 
 
If after you have installed drivers and have adjusted your buffers to a nice mid size and you still get drop outs and the like it could be a DPC latency issue. Use a tool meant to check this.
 
Here is a link that can help explain this  http://www.sysnative.com/forums/windows-7-%7C-windows-vista-tutorials/5721-how-to-diagnose-and-fix-high-dpc-latency-issues-with-wpa-windows-windows-vista-7-8-a.html
 
 For me  because I have the option to use either ASIO or WDM they both work very well on my system I chose WDM this lets me adjust the buffer depending one what I am doing fast. Very low for tracking  medium for mixing. 

Best
John
#28
gswitz
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/10 19:16:44 (permalink)
John
gswitz
I'm also quick on the interface total reset. Sometimes all the routings of the previous gig don't apply.

Thank you for your post. May I ask what you have that would need to be reset? 



Hey, John! Just notice your answer to my post.
 
With my interface, it remembers routings and so on, and my last routings are not always appropriate for my next recording.
 
So an example...
Set up 1
Route Analog Inputs 1+2 with Auto Level increase to analog outputs 1+2 and into my DBX Compressor and back into the interface on Analog inputs 5+6. I record 1+2 and 5+6 and play a solo guitar bit along with some singing.
 
Set up 2
I record 1+2 as microphones input and routed internally to loopback channels Digital 1+2 and use auto level and input compression within the UCX. I send tracks 3+4 out to analog out 1+2 with auto level into the compressor and then to amplifiers in the room which are mic'd and recorded on analog inputs 5+6. This allows for re-amping and also keeps levels into the amps a little hotter than the would be normally.
 
When switching between setup 1 and 2 without first resetting the interface, I might accidentally leave the analog inputs 1+2 routed to analog outputs 1+2 sending vocals to the guitar amps. Oops.
 
So, whenever I'm confused about all my routing settings, I just do a quick total reset on the interface. This gets me back to square 1 where I have no routings to the various outputs and I can go manually set up only what I want.
 
On my RME UCX, I plug the fiber cable from the ADAT out to the ADAT in, giving me the ability to do parallel compression on 8 analog input channels if I want, including the ability to use Auto Level, compression and multiple EQ stages before and after the EQs as I might like, all while auditioning at 0 latency.
 
I made this video a little while ago sort of exploring various options with the loopback of the ADAT.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAMp9MPAj3k
(You can watch faster than real-time by clicking in the settings in the bottom right corner and selecting a faster speed)

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#29
John
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Re: Best Practices ? using Sonar Xx 2014/11/10 19:20:03 (permalink)
Thank you Geoff for being so detailed. Nice and it makes sense to me now. 

Best
John
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