Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/10 07:41:24
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I can honestly say I haven't found anything yet that I've plugged into the Quad that I haven't been able to get a good low noise recording from either with Hi-Z engaged or not.
Milage obviously varies here and I've mailed Roland for clarification. I don't want any nasty shocks further down the line.
Everything else being equal I'm extremly happy with my unit in every other aspect.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/10 10:20:33
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Well, admittedly a Fender Jazz is single-coil passive and does require turning the SENS knob up to 3 o'clock. Hotter guitars probably don't need so much gain.
But it's of concern on such a new product.
Perhaps there will be a revised version.
I like the convenience of being able to run everything off the laptop's battery, so I'm hoping Roland are aware of this issue and are working on a solution.
I shall post the serial no. of the one I had tomorrow for reference.
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/10 10:23:32
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@Jonbouy: I'd be interested in any reply you may get. As you say, apart from that detail, it's a great unit.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/10 14:00:06
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JazzSinger
@Jonbouy: I'd be interested in any reply you may get. As you say, apart from that detail, it's a great unit.
No worries I will report back.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Marshall
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/10 14:13:02
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adrian4u
@ bobguitkillerleft USB1.1 is not a problem - several years I was using Hercules DJ Console mk1 as a soundcard - with 2 inputs and 6 outputs at once in full duplex with 48kHz/16bit - and I never had a problems nor dropouts with latency 5-6ms
But Focusrite Saffire 6 HAS serious problems with latency (USB1.1, 2ins, 6outs) - what's really strange.
FWIW, I am having real latency issues with the Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 (which is firewire). I actually regret moving away from the audiophile PCI I had before. USB/Firewire is neat and convenient, but the Audiophile 2496 I had before never caused any issues.
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Splat 
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/10 20:30:10
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Don't rule out firewire.... Cards are cheap, and in effect you will have a dedicated interface if you just have one FW box.
Firewire seems more "standard" for audio cards nowadays, probably because of Macs.
Speedwise there is very little difference (if anything at all).
I was dead against firewire at first, but more and more I thought about it, the more I became convinced.
My experience is USB is fiddlier than firewire as there are too many standards and implementations with USB - but I see others have had a different experience - each to their own hardware and experience I guess....
I would have prefered PCI (for speed), but then I thought I might want to easily transfer outboard equipment between PC's.
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audiyo
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/11 07:58:04
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JazzSinger
Well, admittedly a Fender Jazz is single-coil passive and does require turning the SENS knob up to 3 o'clock. Hotter guitars probably don't need so much gain.
But it's of concern on such a new product.
Perhaps there will be a revised version.
I like the convenience of being able to run everything off the laptop's battery, so I'm hoping Roland are aware of this issue and are working on a solution.
I shall post the serial no. of the one I had tomorrow for reference. After playing around with the Quad Capture's Hi-Z mode with different sources and playing styles, I can definitely see where you're coming from. I noticed that there is a significant amount of 60 cycle hum in Hi-Z mode but I couldn't hear the slightest bit of hum with Hi-Z turned off. I used the Sonitus EQ's 60 cycle hum removal preset and that got rid of the low end hum but there was still a decent amount of hum overall. I decided to test out my old audio interface (which is usb bus powered) in Hi-Z mode and didn't notice any hum. Looking forward to hearing Roland's take on it.
post edited by audiyo - 2011/10/11 08:08:48
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adrian4u
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/11 14:41:01
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the hum or "electronical noise / modem noise" are usually caused by ground loop.
to get rid of it you can do (any or all) as follow:
- plug all the devices into one power board / splitter with ground connector
- as above, but WITHOUT ground connector
- cut out "ground" wire in USB cable
- use cables with magnetic ring only
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat  *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 07:12:45
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@adrian4u: That would mean Roland's supplied USB cable is at fault, but I think I also tried it with my short USB cable (30cm). I don't have my tower set up, but I tried it with my 1-month-old Acer 8951G (Win7 64bit), my old Asus W6 (XP 32bit), Samsung netbooks N10 and N20, HP G7 and my Lenovo ideapad S12. It happens with battery power too, so it is not a mains power supply problem. No DAW need, just the Quad Capture and drivers. I connect my jazz bass direct without any effects to input 1, engage Hi-Z and turn up the level until I get a decent signal in Cakewalk. In my case that is at around 3 o'clock, and one segment starts showing without playing. Audible buzz in headphones. I then unplug my guitar and it still buzzes, single segment still illuminated. Laptop on battery power and QuadCapture with headphones only. I then put a jack with a short-circuit on it in the input. Still buzzes. I remove the headphones. Now it's battery-powered laptop, USB cable and the Quad Capture only. One segment still showing, so it is buzzing. As I said, the UA-101 and UA-25EX are perfect with exactly the same setup, Hi-Z on.
post edited by JazzSinger - 2011/10/12 07:21:15
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 07:15:50
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PS: Ground lift does not change anything.
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 07:35:05
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Jonbouy
...It's just that the sensitivity in Hi-Z goes way further than you'd ever use.
Just a detail: Hi-Z is not for extra sensitivity as such. It means High Impedance. It is used for passive guitars and reduces pickup loading.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 07:44:32
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JazzSinger
Jonbouy
...It's just that the sensitivity in Hi-Z goes way further than you'd ever use.
Just a detail: Hi-Z is not for extra sensitivity as such. It means High Impedance. It is used for passive guitars and reduces pickup loading.
I agree, but being high impedance makes it more susceptible to noise and interference which is the context I'm using the word sensitive in here. High impedance nodes have higher thermal noise and are more prone to capacitive & inductive noise pick up. See the previously linked thread in the Hardware forum for updates from Roland UK who are taking an interest in our discussions there. This to me has become a specific hardware issue not an X1 issue so that's where I'm continuing with it. So reports from anybody's experience with Hi-Z engaged on the Quad Capture are welcome there as they are being taken into account by Roland currently. Here's the link to that thread. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2402520
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/10/12 08:01:50
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 07:59:18
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adrian4u
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 09:48:28
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"As I said, the UA-101 and UA-25EX are perfect with exactly the same setup, Hi-Z on." And you're right - Edirols or E-mu 0404usb are way better than new "inventions" from Roland,
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 19:39:29
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adrian4u
"As I said, the UA-101 and UA-25EX are perfect with exactly the same setup, Hi-Z on." And you're right - Edirols or E-mu 0404usb are way better than new "inventions" from Roland,
You are kidding? I ditched my 0404 in favour of a Quad and I'm certainly not lamenting its loss...  The latency on the Roland works right down to 48 samples at 48kHz, and I mean really works, compared to 128 at best on the 0404 and the pres on it blow the E-Mu completely out of the water. I haven't run into problems with the Hi-Z input as yet either all I can gauge on that score is with a dummy load in the input the sensitivity up full chat it gets pretty noisy, but there's nothing I've personally put through it so far that hasn't come out clean as a whistle. If I could have said that about the E-Mu and it's antiquated Soundblaster derived drivers that plaster themselves all across the system I wouldn't have even been in the market for the quad...
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/10/12 19:49:10
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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inaheartbeat
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/12 21:08:25
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adrian4u
"As I said, the UA-101 and UA-25EX are perfect with exactly the same setup, Hi-Z on." And you're right - Edirols or E-mu 0404usb are way better than new "inventions" from Roland,
As an extremely happy Octa-Capture user I beg to differ. I don't use High-Z mode but I have a Juno 106 that is noisy through anything. I just put the noise gate on and set the floor to -55dB and am thrilled with the new found silence. The driver latency is also just terrific and the drivers are solid at least on my system. Quiet as hell at 96Khz/24 bit and easy to use. All of this is probably irrelevant to the OP since he already said he was not able to figure the Octa into his budget. Just wanted to defend Roland a bit here on this one.
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adrian4u
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 03:34:25
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guys, I do not like to use any reverbs, delays, gates or compressors on inputs (as a inserts), I do it in DAW. Sonar, Ableton, whatever. I can understand that many people CAN'T use more than 1 knob, and they use just presets, altrough I've found little bit expanded presets in Edirol M16-DX very useful... but in live situations, not in recording.
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 05:58:28
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adrian4u
guys, I do not like to use any reverbs, delays, gates or compressors on inputs (as a inserts), I do it in DAW. Sonar, Ableton, whatever.
Nor do I, so your point here is? The reverb on the Octa doesn't even get recorded it's a courtesy to the vocalist if needed. Handy I'd say. I'd agree with the gate and compressors being as they come after the A/D converters anyway but they could be very useful for somebody doing podcasts say, so they don't need a DAW and a rake of VST's to use it. Your original point stated the Quad specifically wasn't as good an interface as an E-Mu 0404 which clearly outlined your ignorance on the matter. Shame about the Hi-Z issue if it turns out to be a flaw but for recording I like to stick to keeping everything going in as Low Impedance and Balanced inputs anyway so I'm pretty unlikely to be affected by it. I can understand now anyone wanting to record a single coil PUP equipped guitar by plugging it direct into this unit may be disappointed with the results though, but then again micing up an amp from your vintage Tele may turn out to be a better idea anyway. As an interface I'd still recommend it, with that one caveat as a completely solid quality unit offering great value for money, ease of use and excellent performance, oh, and it plays really nicely with Sonar too which after all is what the topic here is about.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/10/13 06:08:18
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Beagle
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 07:46:38
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CakeAlexS
Don't rule out firewire.... Cards are cheap, and in effect you will have a dedicated interface if you just have one FW box.
Firewire seems more "standard" for audio cards nowadays, probably because of Macs.
Speedwise there is very little difference (if anything at all).
I was dead against firewire at first, but more and more I thought about it, the more I became convinced.
My experience is USB is fiddlier than firewire as there are too many standards and implementations with USB - but I see others have had a different experience - each to their own hardware and experience I guess....
I would have prefered PCI (for speed), but then I thought I might want to easily transfer outboard equipment between PC's.
+1 I originally used a PCI card for several years (M-audio Delta 44) until the hardware had a problem and it was going to cost more to fix it than it was worth. so I reluctantly bought a MOTU Ultralite MK3 Hybrid. I was weary of a couple of things: moving to an external interface knowing that sometimes port issues cause intermittent problems and all of the issues I've heard about "non-TI" firewire chipsets. well, I did have issues with my firewire chipset and I went through 3 firewire cards (and my onboard firewire) before I found the right one. apparently the first 2 cards I bought were just dumb bad luck. but when I got the right firewire card, things were running smoothly. I've used the MOTU in USB mode, but only when I'm on my laptop without firewire ports. on this unit, firewire works better than USB does, but USB does work, just at higher latency. all that to say - I love the MOTU! especially after the latest driver update, I can get low latency when I need it. very nice system!
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adrian4u
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 08:06:19
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@ Jonbouy - every single one interface should work with any of DAW's, so there's no big advantage that Octa works with SOnar. My two Edirols work with Sonar. My MOTU work with Sonar. Even my (sold) E-mu work with Sonar :P If you don't want to have more than 2 outputs at once, but you want to have direct monitoring, 16inputs (with 4 microphone/instrument inputs), room equalisation etc - then choose Edirol M16-DX. On ebay you can find it for as low as 250$. With 96samples buffer and 48/24 you can record all channels realtime without problems, you have more functionality (mixer) that any other interface could give you at this price.
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 11:26:19
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@ Jonbouy - every single one interface should work with any of DAW's, so there's no big advantage that Octa works with SOnar. Read the OP's original question...  That's the question I've been trying to answer. Background noise can certainly be an issue... And btw you still haven't validated your comparison to the 0404, basically because you can't. It was nonsense. For me the Quad offered the best bang for buck I could find, (remember I was already an 0404 user at the time.) I don't need more than a couple of inputs and I haven't found anything that performs, as well, as beautifully and simply as the Quad. That's my opinion it isn't wrong, I love the unit and I stand by my recommendation. Anyhow we now have clarification from Roland on the reason for increased noise with input sensitivity turned up full on the Quad over previous Roland interfaces. The official response is here. It makes perfect sense to me. http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2407163
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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adrian4u
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 12:25:56
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OK, as you wish - but with 0404usb I had no problems with buzzzzzzz.
Do you think that changing resistance is enough explanation and plea? I doub't.
And what next? "we changed resistance, so buzzzz off?" :-D
Well, not my problem.
btw. I noticed in Edirol UA-1000 and Edirol M16-DX, that when connnecting guitar into mic input and don't switching it to Hi-Z you have sound free of part of buzz, but with reduced high frequencies.
btw. just give yourself a minute and look at M16-DX - it's worth your interest.
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Jonbouy
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 12:32:44
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btw. just give yourself a minute and look at M16-DX - it's worth your interest. I shall do, out of interest...
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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adrian4u
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Re:Best buy Usb audio interface for Sonar X1 64 bit
2011/10/13 12:51:06
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btw. Edirol M16-DX after upgrading to OS2.0 works as a hardware controller for Sonar Logic and Ableton :)
Or you can buy upgraded version with included foils with printed mappings for Sonar, Logic and Ableton.
for it's money this is still the best buy, but - everyone has individual preferences.
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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