Best effects for the Snare Drum

for "meaty punch" on the snare use compression.

most genres do not pan the bass or kick and keep them straight down the middle. 

Jpok1000


Hi all I am creating a new dance track at the moment & everything is running well. However the snare Drum that I use lacks that meaty punch that you hear in most other dance tracks, even when EQ it or use reverb, I have used many different types of audio snare drum samples but I still fail to get it to stand out & get that final result. My question is what are the best effects or tips & tricks to make the snare Drum stand out better?

Also is it wise to pan the bass or kick Drum?

Well, I admit that I do not record or mix dance music, I mainly do metal, however my snare techniques may cross over. Here is what I do...
 
1. EQ: Take the narrowest band you can get, boost it as much as you can. Sweep around the lows, probably between 80 Hz and 200Hz. Find the spot that really booms out. Reduce the gain and widen the Q. You might end up boosting around 3 or 4 db with a 2.0 Q when you are done. Use your ears in context with the music.
 
2. More EQ. Repeat the above steps in different areas to find the crack and/or to remove ugly resonances that you don't need.
 
3. More EQ: Highpass the snare to get rid of what you don't need. Pay snare in context, make Highpass adjustment, bypass the highpass to compare and make sure you are not cutting into important character of snare.
 
4. Compression: Set a fast attack around 0 to 5 ms and a release around 12 to 25 ms. Use a gentle slope. Find one of your hardest hits and loop that hit with your compressor bypassed. Note your peak level. Engage your compressor, adjust your Threshold for about 8 db of reduction. Then use your make up gain to reach the same peak as you had while your compressor was bypassed.
 
5. Delay: Create a Buss, change it to MONO. Add in a delay and pan that delay off to one side. Not 100% but somewhere off to the side. Set your feed back and all that to 0. Set the delay to around 25 to 30 ms. Make sure you are hearing only the wet delay in the buss. From your Snare track, send a signal, maybe at -3db (a little quieter than the original track). to the delay buss.
 
6. Reverb: Do the same procedure as above for the buss, except keep this bus in stereo and panned center. Send to a plate reverb, adjust levels to taste. Place an EQ after the reverb to highpass any low frequencies that might make things muddy.
 
7. Listen to snare solo'd then in contect. If you like the sound of the solo'd snare, but not in the mix, then find out what is masking the sound you like. Go to that instrument and scoop out the frequecies that are making the snare.
 
Use your ears and your gut feeling. You will get what you are looking for. It takes experimenting, trial and error. But the discovery is so worth it, when you finaly get what you are looking for. Good luck!

Use another snare. Layer 'em up to get what you need. Of course, sculpt each one with EQ with compression.

...wicked


Use another snare. Layer 'em up to get what you need. Of course, sculpt each one with EQ with compression.

+10 
and +10 to what Bitflipper said.
 

twaddle


Slightly ot I know but just something I noticed in the op's signature
(other than it being the biggest one I've ever seen)

But jpok1000, you do realize that you have 4gigs of ram that are completely redundant?
Your 32bit operating system will only ever be able to use 3.25gig of ram?
Just wondered if it was a typo or something?
Or are you planning to upgrade your os soon?
I'd recommend that you do.

Steve

I thought someone on these forums said we could use j-bridge for memory management above 3G+ on 32 bit systems?  I haven't tried it yet, but had planned to look into that.

Well for all those who might have been wondering.. the answer is NO!!
Jbridge will not give you access to the ram, as I thought, it's windows and not your host that places this constraint.

I just wrote to João, (the jbridge creator) and talk about lightning response he wrote back within 10 minutes.
This is from he...

If you're using a 32bit OS, jBridge won't make it possible to use more RAM, it can only use the RAM the OS can provide.

So to the op, you need to get yourself a 64bit os.

Steve

Wow what a response! Can I just say thanks to all that responded with your tips

Firstly Twaddle: Yes mate I was aware it's just my signature information is not up to date, I now have 6gig ram with a 64bit mother board. But thanks you have now just reminded me that I need to update my signature info.

Bitflipper, Wicked, Beagle, Sylvan & Twigman: Some great tips there to be going on it has all has helped massively thanks.

Johnny v: None of the audio loops I am using are "over processed" they are all dry, but I know what you are saying.

Adding a short burst of white noise to layer the snare with can work great for club tracks as well.

And as I said before, don't forget saturation.

the very best effect tool for a snare drum:

A trap for the hip-hop is probably the most wide open, the ear of the beholder the idea of trying to drive a drum kit 5. Because music is the most eclectic to date, incorporating all the musical styles known ancestor of man's hip-hop can be tilted easily traps sharp rock, cutting the most delicate sounds, the variety tonic smooth jazz.

dmmi

Well, I admit that I do not record or mix dance music, I mainly do metal, however my snare techniques may cross over. Here is what I do...
 
1. EQ: Take the narrowest band you can get, boost it as much as you can. Sweep around the lows, probably between 80 Hz and 200Hz. Find the spot that really booms out. Reduce the gain and widen the Q. You might end up boosting around 3 or 4 db with a 2.0 Q when you are done. Use your ears in context with the music.
 
2. More EQ. Repeat the above steps in different areas to find the crack and/or to remove ugly resonances that you don't need.
 
3. More EQ: Highpass the snare to get rid of what you don't need. Pay snare in context, make Highpass adjustment, bypass the highpass to compare and make sure you are not cutting into important character of snare.
 
4. Compression: Set a fast attack around 0 to 5 ms and a release around 12 to 25 ms. Use a gentle slope. Find one of your hardest hits and loop that hit with your compressor bypassed. Note your peak level. Engage your compressor, adjust your Threshold for about 8 db of reduction. Then use your make up gain to reach the same peak as you had while your compressor was bypassed.
 
5. Delay: Create a Buss, change it to MONO. Add in a delay and pan that delay off to one side. Not 100% but somewhere off to the side. Set your feed back and all that to 0. Set the delay to around 25 to 30 ms. Make sure you are hearing only the wet delay in the buss. From your Snare track, send a signal, maybe at -3db (a little quieter than the original track). to the delay buss.
 
6. Reverb: Do the same procedure as above for the buss, except keep this bus in stereo and panned center. Send to a plate reverb, adjust levels to taste. Place an EQ after the reverb to highpass any low frequencies that might make things muddy.
 
7. Listen to snare solo'd then in contect. If you like the sound of the solo'd snare, but not in the mix, then find out what is masking the sound you like. Go to that instrument and scoop out the frequecies that are making the snare.
 
Use your ears and your gut feeling. You will get what you are looking for. It takes experimenting, trial and error. But the discovery is so worth it, when you finaly get what you are looking for. Good luck!

Wow.....thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you......(haha so excited i just realized i actually typed all that instead of cntrl c, cntrl v....haha)
 
Thank you......i mainly work on metal too and that was a little pice of gold buddy!
 
Do you mic your drums or use samples?
(is that a warlock I see in the pic....maybe warbeast...hmm)
 
Cheers!

 
Hey thanks, it feels good to be able to post something helpful.
 
I mic my drums, always. Before we start recording the live acoustic drums, I will record my own samples from that kit. I will have the drummer perform individual hits on kick, snare, and toms.
 
Then upon mixdown, I will use drumagog to add samples to the drum tracks. But a very important note, the samples that I made from the kit are used as *reinforcement*, not complete replacement.
 
Here is my secret for tight punchy drums for metal... 
 
Tuning: I will find the lowest tension I can get on the top head that resonates freely. After finding that spot (you will feel it) then I may bring it up a notch or two, depending on the music we will be recording. Then for the bottom head, I will match the top head as a stating point, just to get it even. After that, start tuning the bottom head “higher” than the top head. Keep going up and up, hitting the top head to test the sound. You are going to keep going up until you start hearing a “pitch bend” occur. When this happens, you will get more attack and less sustain which is what you want for getting the drums tight and cutting through the mix. Metal needs this.

Micing:

Kick: Do not place your kick mic right up to the beater, this sucks. I usually place the mic maybe an inch inside the shell pointing at the beater. But have it a little off center. I prefer an Audix D6 but the Sennheiser e602 is all right as well.
 
Snare: A 57 on top, maybe an inch over the rim and a few inches above the head, pointing at the center of the snare. I use a drum stick to measure my aim. Then a 57 on bottom as well. I place it so that if the mics were shooting lasers, the top and bottom lasers would intersect at a 90 degree angle. "Flip the phase on the bottom mic or your snare will sound weak".
 
Toms: Do not put mics as close to the head as you can get. This is very bad. Use the same technigue as with snare. A few inches above the skin, pointing at the center.
 
Overheads: I do different stuff all the time here. But one great sure fire way to always get a phase coherent recording is to use the Glynn Johns method.
 
Room Mics: I use a pair of LDC mics as far away as I can get. I place them about knee height.

Mixing:
 
EQ. Highpass everything! It may seem to go against logic because you want a lot of low end for metal but trust me, highpass everything. The kick, start the highpass around 60Hz. Adjust to taste. Anything below 60Hz will get in the way of clarity. Yes, you want low end, but the “RIGHT” low end. The wrong low end will destroy your punch. I would just highpass everything at 60Hz and then go back and adjust to taste. There is so much more though, you have to find any ugly resonances that you can cut out with narrow bands. All the normal stuff too, like pulling out a lot of stuff around 400 Hz on the kick, etc…
 
Samples: Make your own samples as said above. Use Drumagog or Audiop Snap or whatever you use to “REINFORCE”, not replace. So you will keep your orginal tracks from the mics, on a new track you will have your self recorded samples. I usually use most of my sound from the mics, and tuck the sample up underneath.
 
Gates: I will use the kick as an example, but apply this to your snares and toms too… Place a gate on your kick, the original kick recorded live from the mic. Go to your track containing your sample kick. Clone this track to a new track. Change the output of this track to the sidechain input of your gate on the kick. Also on this cloned sample kick track, the one routed to your sidechain gate, nudge this over 10 ms earlier in the timeline. This will now open the gate for your live kick from the mic. If you do this correctly you will get very tight sounding drums.
 
Your room mics will need to be mixed in low as well. Not too much. You can do crazy EQ on the room mics as well. I pull out most of the mids, add lows and highs and sneak it in low. Experiment to see what you like.

Oh yeah, compression. There is alot hear too. I do what I said earlier in the thread for snare. But for kick a have a slower attack time. I try and let through the initial attack before compression kicks in. And on toms I only use compression to control peaks, so not much at all.

Yeah it is a BC Rich Warlock...ha ha ha.

dmmi


(on my knees.......wait let me finish, I don't swing that way.......bowing at you advise/help/suggestions!)

I must admit that I don't have the best set of mics....I use a CAD premium set, but I have gotten decent results capturing sound....just not the results I want....(and you've helped with that!)

I'll have to research Glynn Johns, my OH's are currently "custom" spaced pair just to overcome some of my drummers bad habbits and cymbol placements.
 
Really excited to try this stuff out, mind you, my EQ will be drastically different because of my room and crappy mic's....but the goal will to get what you've sugested.

I also use a roland TD3 mapped to addictive or the like to get midi into my DAW....I dont have drumagog..

(Got 2 warlocks....an NJ Deluxe modded to 18V, and a custom w/seymore full shred neck, dimebucker bridge, set neck, khaler, cutom paint.....they are my love!.....Cheers!)

dmmi, I sent you a pm, check your messages. EVERYONE: I totaly apolagize to the OP and the rest of the posters for hijacking your thread. But I thank you also for allowing dmmi and I to discuss drums for metal. Out of respect to the thread, I will continue my discussion with dmmi through pm's. Thanks everyone!
 
-Charles