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Starise
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2016/06/15 13:24:11 (permalink)

Best keyboards

Several keys on my  Roland Juno Stage stopped responding and I'm looking at a replacement keyboard.  I don't intend this to be a war over which keyboard is best. I'm more interested to hear of your experiences. What has worked best for you.
 
I want 88 keys but I would probably be ok with 76 . Graded hammer action would be a nice addition.
 
My main use is in the studio, but I occasionally take the keys out to play. I have Komplete and other software synths, so anything extra is just a nice addition. I still want a board with nice internal sounds and great midi response. Something to inspire ideas or practice arrangements to drum tracks without booting a computer would be great. I'm thinking along the lines of a workstation that can do well in a DAW environment.
 
For a little more money than a nice controller I can buy a keyboard that will control my soft synths and also double as an idea machine/extra sound module. TBH my local GC is the worst place in the world to attempt to demo anything. I've listened to lots of demos online. When I look at Yamaha Motif I get the impression that what it does it does well> solid contruction> good bread and butter sounds, nice keybed, even the older ones.
 
Korg looks to have more overall funtionality. The touch screens on the Kronos and Krome seem to make using the keyboards much easier than menu surfing on a small lcd.
 
Like the OASYS the Kronos is really a PC running Linux code designed to run the sound engines. The keys don't seem to be quite as well designed as those in the Motif going by customer comments. But it seems to have everything else going for it. A very impressive keyboard. My main concern is that since it is a PC inside with a hard drive, will the internals become obsolete soon and be more finicky than a less complex ROM booted system? The OASYS came around in 05' so it has to be getting long in the tooth by now I would think.
 
I'm not even looking at Roland at this point as I'm done with them for awhile.
 
 Something similar to an arranger keyboard would help me to put arrangement ideas together, but I want better quality than most arrangers are capable of.
 
 
 
 
post edited by Starise - 2016/06/23 09:56:50

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#1
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/15 15:39:15 (permalink)
If you're looking at 88-key workstation type keyboards, the Kronos-2 is hard to beat.
The keyboard on the 88 and 73 key versions is very good.
 
Inside the Kronos is an Atom based PC running a dedicated version of Linux.
The Korg M3 series runs Linux... as do the Yamaha Motif XS and XF (and I'm guessing the new Montage).
 
The Kronos-2 comes stock with a 60GB SSD.
I upgraded that to a 500GB model.
 
Inside the Kronos is a small (high-RPM) fan.
This fan blows across the SSD (not the CPU).
The CPU is passive-cooled (no fan).
The fan can be a bit noisy.
Fortunately, in the Global settings, you can turn this fan off (occurs after the unit boots up).
The Kronos enclosure has plenty of ventilation (heat dissipates)... 
 
The new Kronos pianos sound extremely good (uses disk-streaming).
The Berlin Grand is one of the best piano sounds I've ever played.
Sympathetic resonance takes realism one step further...
 
Kronos is expensive.
It was designed to compete with the best soft-synths.
IMO, It does this well.  
Kronos is well organized (quick to browse thru sounds)... and has good to great sounds across the board.
Depending on your circumstances, it may make sense... or it may not.
Even with the recent introduction of Montage, IMO there's not a better (more versatile/comprehensive) hardware workstation than Kronos.
 
 
 
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2016/06/16 17:06:36

Best Regards,

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#2
xiwix
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/16 00:25:43 (permalink)
I love my original stock Kronos 73.  It's sound engines are more than a little "extra" and you can go deep with programming.  I always like the Yamaha playing action but no complaints with weighted keys on the kronos.  And sure it is bound to break or go obsolete.  I sold a yamaha EX5 when I got the kronos, there are days I miss it and I believe that EX5 will still be making awesome sounds when the kronos is stuck in some boot up loop or the screen is all jaggy.  Oh and mapping the 3rd wheel to the metronome volume.  Just get an ex5!
 
 
 
 
 
#3
Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/16 16:09:13 (permalink)
Thanks for the comments. I am leaning heavily toward the Kronos,though It's probably way more than I really need. 
 
There's so much repackaged tech in these keyboards. When a manufacturer makes a claim one wonders how much of it is smoke and mirrors.
 
I did some research into the Kronos and what you say re enforces my assumptions. I like the way it's all put together and I might even use the karma features.  The new Yamaha Montage looks interesting too, but not 4 grand interesting for me at this point.
 
You can find old OASYS keyboards well kept for half of their original price. I  think OASYS will go down in history as one of the best innovations  ever , although the inner tech inside of it is getting old....a pentium 2 is the cpu I think. The memory for it is getting more difficult to find.
 
I had heard about the fan issue in the Kronos, but was under the impression that the latest firmware upgrades addressed the problems. I have also read to stay away from serial numbers before 4000 because there were keybed issues. Apparently Korg shipped these with a cardboard card in between the keys to keep the spacing correct in shipment. If you buy one used and they don't use the cards you may end up with a keyboard that has misaligned keys.
post edited by Starise - 2016/06/23 10:00:12

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#4
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/16 17:02:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/06/22 10:16:25
Kronos is essentially well-integrated software synths running on dedicated hardware.
You can do the same thing with your DAW and soft-synths.
IMO, The control/integration on Kronos is slightly better than Komplete Kontrol/Komplete.
If you're playing gigs, Kronos is well suited for that purpose with Set-Lists and seamless transition between sounds.
 
The Kronos as a whole package is hard to beat.
For someone starting out, it can record 16 tracks of audio (in addition to sequencing MIDI).
If you're playing in a small club act, the Kronos would allow you to "fly-in" additional parts (audio or MIDI).

Best Regards,

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eikelbijter
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/16 17:18:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/06/22 10:16:37
The Kronos (I have two!) has sounds that are in a league of their own. No other keyboards even comes close. As a professional musician of more than 25 years now, if I never had a new board, I'd still have more at my fingertips than I could EVER have imagined in the past. For programming it has its quirks and bizarre omissions, but it's still far easier than Yamahas or Rolands.
 
Having said that, I do prefer the Yamaha weighted keys, especially in the high end Motif and Piano series. But, even my trusty old MO8 feels better to me than the Korg RH3, so that's what I MIDI into one of my Kronos 61s when I need to play proper piano. The non-weighted keys that on the Kronos are as good as any out there!
 
If you need an excellent weighted keybed inexpensively I suggest the Yamaha CP33, or perhaps a used MO8. The MOx8 and MOxf8 by the way are NOT the same, and feature a much cheaper, lighter action. Also on the list should be the Roland A88, or some of the cheaper RDs. They play a little differently, but very expressively....
 
Finally, the MPK88 and MPK49 are probably about the worst out there; especially the latter is probably the worst purchase I've ever made. Its key velocity curve is unimaginably terrible and none adjustable!
 
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/16 19:44:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/06/22 10:17:08
Kurzweil is another brand to keep in mind.  After all if it is sheer sound quality you want it is quite an amazing machine. In my opinion possibly one of the best sounding workstations ever. I have a PC3K6 but you can get them in 7 and 8 versions with weighted actions. (73/88 notes)
 
I have compared Kronos to the Kurzweil a few times in my studio doing very similar patches and sounds and the Kurzweil is certainly as good and better in a few instances. It can hold many sounds and is an excellent controller in the studio.  I use mine in that capacity.
 
I have compared it to many other brands too and it blows most of them away. It records so well it is incredible.  It is so easy to mix.  There are 16 effects processors on board nd you can use them all at once. Multi timbral wise it is over the top.
 
They already have some beautiful acoustic pianos but there is special memory expansion that can expand it out to their flagship piano if you want it. The other option for the memory expansion is into a while new library of sounds and I went that road.
 
I have over 6500 sounds on board now. The sequencer is powerful too and easily connects to your studio for transfer etc..
 
http://kurzweil.com/product/pc3k8/
 
They do it all. Full orchestral, modern contemporary, world sounds from everywhere, choirs, analog and digital synths. There is VAST of course to get your teeth into if you want to get serious about programming patches. Up to 32 layers per note.  The K series reads the old K2000 series sounds so it opens up some older territory.  I have still got an old K2000 rack fully optioned up with a big library and it still sounds jaw dropping. In combination with the PC3K it is almost ridiculous. Between just the two of them you could literally do anything.
 
Kronos is also a great instrument no doubt about it. It is not tons better than the Kurzweil though. Slighty in some areas not as good in others.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2016/06/17 03:09:25

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Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/22 10:19:51 (permalink)
I really appreciate the replies here- I hadn't considered the Kurzweil Jeff. I'll look into those suggestions. 
 
Jim there seem to be so many versions of the  Kronos . The "X" version with a larger hard drive. The 73 version, the 61 keys version and the 88. I think I've also seen a Kronos S. 
 
The older Yamaha's mentioned by eikelbijter are a great value strictly looking at the keybed and basic sounds.
 
Admittedly a Kronos would be overkill for someone who seldom gigs out with a keyboard. When I play out it's usually on an 88 key grand, and that sound is tough to beat on any keyboard.
 
What I think I want is a keyboard that has a great keybed and if an idea strikes I don't necessarily need to have my computer booted up. A keyboard that might have some nice compositional helps inside of it. Having said that, the kronos takes several minutes to boot , so the advantage there might be slim. I could probably buy band-in-a-box to use as a musical scratch pad.
 
My biggest problem has been some of the keys on my Roland no longer work right, so it's leaned against my studio wall.Probably going to be sold. I don't want to invest in having it repaired. I'm using my M-audio 88sx which has cheap synth keys and they are usually ok for what I've been doing. It's actually a nice gigging board in a pinch because it had bread and butter internal sounds, is 88 keys and is a nice midi controller. Hardly weighs anything. I also have a nice casio 88 key that has a weighted keybed, but the midi recording from usb hadf some glitches in it. 
 
I wanted a little better keybed and I miss some of the sounds in the Roland. I've always liked the ability to have a hardware soundbank on hand. Works great for quick on the fly ideas.
 
The kronos is extravagant for me, but if I can land a good deal on one  why not? 

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#8
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/22 11:50:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/06/23 10:04:04
The current Kronos is Kronos-2 (88-key, 73-key, 61-key).
It ships with a 60GB SSD.
That's certainly a usable/workable amount of storage space for a keyboard.
I wanted more... so I upgraded it to a 500GB SSD.
Upgrading the SSD is a bit of a pain... but not nearly as hard as upgrading the boot drive on an iMac.  
 
Kronos does take a while to boot up.  I try to boot it ahead of time... while I'm working on other things.
Once booted, it really is "luxurious" for lack of a better term (probably extravagant/overkill for many users).
 
I wasn't going to invest in any more "worstation" type keyboards...
After looking at various 88-key MIDI controllers, Kronos was (IMO) a better controller... with lots of fringe benefits.
I don't use it anywhere near its full potential...
 
If you're going to invest in a workstation type keyboard, it does make sense to check out all the major players.
 
 

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Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/22 11:59:41 (permalink)
Thanks Jim. 500gb? Wow. Most people who own the keyboard are happy with it. I would rather get something deeper than I'll need than something too shallow.
 
 Now I need you guys to bury this thread so I don't have any  competition looking for a decent used kronos :)
 
Kronos, bad keyboard , bad, bad.

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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/23 10:38:43 (permalink)
With any of the 88-key workstations:
They consume a fair amount of physical space... and they weigh about 60 pounds (+/-).
 
My dilemma with Kronos is that I don't use it anywhere near its full potential.
Back in the 90s, almost everything I did was keyboard based... and was more jazz/fusion/prog inspired.
As an old man , I'm more into stripped down rock (drums, bass, guitar, vocals).
That space and investment could go toward other things...

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Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/23 14:41:20 (permalink)
I agree that a person with Sonar and a good sample player probably doesn't need a Kronos.
 
Remember back in the day when it was cool to have three or four hardware keyboards on A stands in your studio? In reality we can now have 100's of virtual keyboards in our computers. From the outside it might not look like much. Looses some of the cool factor. Now it's similar to an old car collector who never drives the cars. Old hardware can sit and collect dust.
 
Playing rock music really only needs a few elements, so yeah I can sure see why the Kronos is overkill for you as well. I'm in a similar situation. Most of the sounds in romplers and hardware synths I like to play for the enjoyment of listening to the sound, but those sounds won't ever make it into most of my mixes. Pad sounds are probably the worst for me personally and this seems to be what is in the soundbanks of most keyboards aside from the tried and true basic sounds.Pads and "evolving textures" are about 90% of the sounds, especially in the Korgs.
I might use 1% of those for light backing set 12 db in the mix occasionally. But to each his or her own. Omnisphere kinds of sounds don't see much use here.
 
Maybe this is more about the nostalgia of it for me. Taking an audio output from a keyboard into a mixer takes me back to the old days. Something about how well that works compared to some soft synths is enough for me to want at least a hardware keyboard or two laying around.
 
Another thing is, there aren't any software renewals or updates. As long as the hardware lasts is how long you'll have those sounds no matter what happens to your computer.
 
My M-audio 88ex weighs just 17 pounds. The Kronos can't compete with that, but it sure would make a nice paper weight to have around the studio :)
 
 

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#12
Jeff Evans
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/23 15:04:15 (permalink)
Some of those older Yamaha, Korg, or Roland work stations like a Fantom with a few expansions in are good value. 
 
The Kurzweil has a nice sequencer and it is easy to assign sounds to tracks and get under way jotting down ideas if you are away from the studio.
 
Kurzweil songs can be exported as midi files and easily imported into the DAW. You can get the DAW to send a midi clock and sync the sequencer if you wanted to transfer the audio of your ideas across to your DAW.  I don't use the sequencer much as it is in my studio acting as a controller and its internal sound engine being addressed from Studio One instead.
 
There are 9 faders on the front panel which can be used as controllers for your DAW and they are assigned also to the internal patches/effects making quite a few edits to parameter changes possbible very easily. VAST is very deep and you can get right into the programming side of it too, if you want or just use its huge sound library as it is for a lot of music making. It also has a ribbon input, inputs for controllers including the Yamaha breath controller.
 
The many sounds are organised into categories so they are easy to navigate to fast and fine stuff.  It boots up pretty quickly I think compared to a Kronos. 
 
Some things few know as well. The Kurzweil also has the KB3 organ emulation inside it too and also a third instrument called the VA1. This was a massive hardware synth that used analog modeling to be a very nice analog sounding instrument.  It never took off.  (eg very similar to Novation Supernova which I really like the sound of)  They have incorporated the VA1 inside the PC3K. So it is a serious sounding fat analog synth as well.  So in a way there are three synth engines built in.
 
Kronos is a fabulous instrument too. The 9 synth engines are all excellent and can be used at once. All Korg instruments of this quality sound excellent. The Kurzwiel is also sheer class in the power and depth of sound department.  They have an all new sample library for the PC3K series.  Lovely stereo sampling being done.  It sounds better to me than the older K2000 which also sounds great too. The latest models are the best sounding Kurzweils I have ever heard.  I know I am biased.  I have loved them for a long time!
 

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#13
Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 08:20:36 (permalink)
I've had an older Yamaha motif and a few of the older Korg keyboards and Roland. Played with an old Ensoniq Mirage. Never had the opportunity to try a Kurzweil. Give me too many choices and I can't make a decision on anything haha...but now you've got my curiosity up Jeff. 
 
Didn't that company change hands and almost go under? It seems I remember years ago when I was looking to purchase a keyboard Kurzweil was in transition as a company. This was why I didn't look at them too hard. I wasn't sure how long they would be around.
 
There's also some incredible accompaniment synths that don't get much press. Korg makes the PA4x ( I might have gotten that wrong) It looks loaded well for a solo act. Yamaha has the Tyros which is supposed to be good. How about Wersi? Ever play a Wersi? http://wersimusic.com/newproducts/pegasus-wing/
 
Many of these boards likely have similar soundsets to their rompler playing workstation cousins. My first impressions of accompaniment were that they can sound cheesy and fake, especially if you try to pull off that electric guitar solo on the keys :) I had a mid level Yamaha PSR at one time. It did some things ok, but others it didn't. The more recent better accompaniment keyboards are in another league, but I haven't personally demoed them. I heard examples on the web.
 
 
 
post edited by Starise - 2016/06/24 09:21:45

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#14
thepianist65
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 09:05:55 (permalink)
Here's what I think:  If your primary use is in the studio, and you have loads of VST samples, you may find that a workstation is overkill, for sure.  If you also want to take it on gigs, then size and weight are major factors, IMO. If you play a lot more piano than other types of keys (organs, synths, etc.) then the fully weighted keyboard is the way to go. If I'm describing all this for you, it's clear that this is how I approach it. Since I play more piano than anything, the full keyboard with fully weighted keys is a must. After years and years of this, my setup is evolving as I write this. I've been a Roland guy for many years, and still use my RD-300 GX as my studio controller. It's onboard sounds are still not bad, but I only use a few of them, mostly just piano and epiano. I also have lots of VST's for my studio work. The real problem was that even though the RD 300 has somewhat low weight of 36 pounds, it's getting harder and harder for me to lug it around, and discourages my wanting to play out. I now have a Roland VR09 as a 2nd keyboard, and this little baby is so useful for the onboard sounds it produces, especially the synths and organs. It's only 61 keys and has synth touch, perfect for what I use it for. It's so light that it's almost an afterthought to carry.
So my holy grail was to find a lighter 88 key fully-weighted stage piano, and after considering the Nord Stage 2 HP 76, which is from 3-4K and above (with 76 keys and a "lighter" hammer action bed), I discovered a newer player, and that is why I now have a Casio PX-5S. 24 pounds! Nice keyboard, 88 keys, fully weighted, a joy to play. Onboard sounds are great, and there are a zillion of them, all fully editable, etc. Computer connectivity, full MIDI implementation, etc., etc. etc. Having now used it on a gig, I am hooked. No more broken back, I can carry it on one arm. Could double as a studio controller due to it's versatility and using it with VST's etc., also works. But now I have the Roland RD 300 as a dedicated studio controller, and the Casio and Vr09 for gigging, etc. No more breaking down and setting up from studio to the road. And the Casio has a lot of knobs and sliders for realtime control of almost anything, fully configurable by the user, too, including stage setups for quick recall, etc. I have only started to learn about it. And it's price is 2/3 less than the Nord (and the Kronos, too). 
I urge you to at least stop laughing at the brand name and consider this keyboard, too. You'll save a ton of money and your back will thank you. I've been a pro player for more years than most, and I swear to you this is a high quality professional product that the most demanding pianists/keyboardists would find appealing and useful, and a bargain. For way less than a Kronos, you could have the VR09 and the PX5S and pretty much cover all the bases. Check it out here.
That is all.

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#15
Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 12:02:17 (permalink)
Thanks for those recommendations Dave! I checked out your music. Great stuff!
 
I actually have a Privia 150 ( I think).  I love the feel of the weighted keys. The piano sound is very nice. It would be great for a small quiet gig since it has internal speakers.It has usb midi, but I didn't like the usb midi and would rather use 5 pin midi into my audio interface. Another minus for it was it only had a TRS audio output. If the PX5s has this keybed, then I know I would like the feel of it. I fell behind on the more recent Casio gear so I appreciate that you pointed this keyboard out to me. I looked at a few demos and I'm impressed. I could probably go demo one of these at GC if management can keep the 14 year old plinkers off for awhile.
 
I work similar to you only I don't  take a keyboard out since I've been playing as a weekly church pianist for over 15 years. They have a Schimmel Grand. 
The only time I really need to carry a separate keyboard out is when they have a picnic and the last time I took an acoustic guitar instead.Was a lot easier in that case. The last time I needed to use a keyboard out was playing a funeral...yeah you heard right, a funeral. The third one I've done. 
When I play in bars I'm on a different instrument.
 
My studio needs are fairly simple. I usually track both a midi track and the audio from the keyboard, so a prime consideration for me in the studio is I don't want honky midi. Whatever I use I need it to track and output midi accurately. My M-audio board occasionally hiccups with the sustain pedal during a midi recording. Having the most layers of midi velocity sensitivity is another big one for me. Soft pedal would be a nice addition.
I then take the midi track and use it with a soft synth, usually a decent vst piano.
 
The onboard sounds come in handy for me because in the morning before my piano gig I'll pull a music set and I might want to practice a piece without the computer. It's nice to simply turn it on and play. I'm usually pushed for time and in a hurry to get out the door. No time to boot a computer.
 
For several years I was taking a board to a portable gig every week and that's when I bought the M-audio 88sx. The Roland Juno Stage 76 key was also fairly lightweight. It would be nice to know that the Casio PX5S is so lightweight, especially for an old guy like me ;)
 

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#16
thepianist65
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 12:30:40 (permalink)
Thanks for the kind words, Starwise.  BTW, The PX5S has both usb midi AND 5 pin Midi functionality. Pedal functionality might be more limited in some ways, but Casio now also has a PX560 (I think that's the number) with slightly improved pedal inputs and also a touch screen interface. I preferred the PX5's sliders and knobs, and their Stage Setups vs. "Registrations" inplementation. YMMV, of course. The combo of light weight, weighted full keybed, full MIDI (I use my Ipad a lot on gigs via 5 pin midi output ) and price make it a great deal for a lot of folks--maybe others here. So now that I am gigging more and trying to increase the gigs, it just made sense. Once I learn the sound editing and setup methods I will know more about the "workstation" part of it. And the bonus is a fantastic support group via Facebook, with user generated resources, stage setups, tips, forum, etc.  
Good luck, of course, once you make your decision, I'm sure you'll be thrilled regardless of choice.

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 BLUES:
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Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
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Tidewater Jazz page:
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#17
Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 13:19:23 (permalink)
Well Dave. I looked more into the board and once again I appreciate your recommendations. 
 
It seems to have everything I will need or want in a keyboard. The Kronos would have been overkill for me.
It's light weight
Has a nice 88 keys weighted keybed
Has great bread and butter sounds particularly nice pianos
Has some arpeggio features
Has 5 pin midi and usb midi
Gets great reviews. In fact I couldn't find a bad review.
Records and plays back from a usb stick
Costs the same money as a good midi controller
 
So I bought one. And they threw in a free set of studio monitors with free shipping!
If you're in the states here's a link to the deal. You'll see the monitors in your cart at checkout.
 
http://www.samash.com/keyboards/digital-pianos/casio-privia-pro-px-5s-digital-piano-cpx5sxxxx
 
It'll be nice to have a weighted keybed again.
 
Thanks again!!
 
 

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#18
thepianist65
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 14:09:34 (permalink)
Wow! Free monitors? Dang, wish I had seen that, I was just happy to get free shipping next day from B&H!  This is so great, I've been following this thread and frankly I'm still a little bit fearful of bringing up the "Casio" name, as it was for so long (and deservedly) a name associated with "toy" keyboards and watches, etc. I'm very happy for you, I felt after re-reading all the posts that you might find this hit the sweet spot. I know you will love it. I, too could not find a bad review, and hopefully will be adding my own soon.
Enjoy! And don't forget about the support you can get from other users (more exp with it than me at this point):
 
Here's a link you might find useful:
http://sc3900.wix.com/px-5s   This is the user portal, I haven't been through much of it yet.
 
And if you use Facebook, there is a vibrant community of users here: Although it says the group is "closed" it is not, and I was accepted within minutes of requesting to join it. It feels like I have dozens of new friends who are sharing stuff about the keyboard (and it's newer cousin the 560), and the group is growing to almost 3000 members and climbing. 
 
Hope you find all this helpful, I know it's been a fun week or so since I adopted my new axe.
Dave

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https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#19
thepianist65
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 14:12:31 (permalink)
Tim, I should add your Celtic music page on Soundcloud is awesome! You have skills....
 

 www.davemaffris.com
 BLUES:
https://www.facebook.com/coastalblueband1/
 
https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#20
Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 14:59:45 (permalink)
Yes I was surprised about the monitors. They are priced at 199.00 and have bluetooth...not sure about them, but I'll take free any day.
 
Thanks for sharing those links. I joined the Facebook forum but haven't been accepted yet. 
 
I felt the same way about Casio so I don't think you're  alone there. Since I had the Priva 150 I knew they had upped their game...in the end though I think it comes down to more of what we do with what we have and not really what we have, gear helps. I get all investigative about this stuff, but I also go by initial reports and user experience when I look for something. A guy like you who has been playing most of his life and likes the board is the most persuasive argument of all, so I really appreciate you jumping onboard with this suggestion. 
Thanks for your comments on my music!
 
Have a great weekend Dave!

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#21
Jeff Evans
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/24 16:18:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/07/05 14:28:28
Kurzweil are settled now I am sure of it.  They did go through a turbulent period but I am confident they are here to stay and bringing out new models all the time now.  They have been updating the OS of my machine too several times in fact and the changes are often formidable.  The build quality feels good too.
 
A few other machines come to mind.
 
The Yamaha Montage:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3u_Z3Q8FM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfAxxav4PUU
 
and the incredible Yamaha Tyros 5:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4ghE9hVpHE
 
Tyros is pretty impressive. Montage is too. Maybe an instrument like this would be a great addition to any studio setup. I realise they are not cheap but they are different and powerful.
 
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2016/06/24 18:04:07

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#22
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/25 13:13:37 (permalink)
Roland workstations have kind of stagnated (IMO) with the past few models. 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#23
bitflipper
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/25 19:25:57 (permalink)
As it happens, I have recently undertaken a deep survey of what's on the market today, as I needed to buy a new keyboard for the first time in 10 years. Never cared for the Motif line because its semi-weighted keys are unsatisfying for piano. My first choice was the MOFX, which has a better keybed but essentially the same samples as the Motif. I've also owned several Roland products over the years and prefer their interfaces to Yamaha's. I also considered the Nord Stage, which has become a standard for live performance.
 
In the end, though, I made an unexpected choice and went with the Korg Kronos. Unexpected because I've never had a Korg product before and had a lukewarm opinion of the company. But that opinion had been formed long ago, before OASYS (which I could never consider due to its price tag). To my surprise, I found that the Kronos matches or beats anything else out there as a general-purpose stage/studio ROMpler/sampler. It does everything the OASYS did for half the price. Nine synth engines, and multiple pianos on par or superior to anything I've ever had in a Kontakt library.
 
Sure, it's got lots of features you'll probably never use, such as a built-in DAW and audio interface. But for my purposes, it's nothing short of awesome. The only downside is that it's a very deep instrument with a learning curve not everyone will be willing to commit to.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#24
Starise
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/27 11:13:47 (permalink)
Hope you enjoy the kronos Dave.Best of luck with it. I came within an inch of bidding one on auction. The only real justification I could make for myself was that I wanted one. I didn't really need one. If I were to be looking at sheer capability It's really tough to beat the Kronos. The new Yamaha Montage Jeff mentioned is probably an attempt to do it. People complain about much less than the complexity in the kronos. If a person doesn't know what it is, then they probably shouldn't buy it IMHO. Of course I would love to get into one and see how deep I could get into it, but at this time I can't justify it. I see some keyboardists/pianists who don't like working on computers using only the Kronos. No denying it's a great keyboard.
 
Thanks for the info on Kurzweil Jeff. I don't doubt that the sounds are amazing. Incidentally I seen a Kurzweil K2600 for a price you wouldn't believe used. It is possible to land some real deals if you're looking for one of the older ones. 
 
I would agree Jim that Roland workstations have fallen behind compared to some of the others. They do a few things well, my  Roland Juno stage 76 has an onboard usb drive in it. With that feature I could load any file, midi or wav. and play it in sequence on the juno stage. This means you can pretty much build your set in Sonar, transfer to the usb stick and you have the same effect almost as a sequencer, excluding realtime control. It's easier to make the songs/sets in sonar than most hardware sequencers. FWIW Roland is the only one I know of to offer audio recording in their lower ended juno series. This is usually reserved for the upper tier yamahas and Korgs. But cheap chinsey feel, yeah it's that.
 
I haven't gotten the Casio PX5S yet, but I've done some research in the meantime. I have looked in several catalogs and online sites and this keyboard isn't present in many of them. IOW it might be hard to locate in some places for whatever reason. Casio basically combined some really nice electric pianos and pianos with their synth engine. Added adaptable controls and knobs making it a decent midi controller. Added a nice arpeggiator all to a weighted 88 keybed. This is something different from them.
Here's a few articles on it-
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/casio-privia-px5s
http://www.keyboardmag.com/combo---do-all/1191/casio-privia-pro-px-5s-review/29374
 
Although streaming sample technology is proven to be better in quality than small sampled romplers, companies like Pianoteq are showing us that you can do it another way and get similar results with modeling technology. If keyboard makers could get this tech into their keyboards they wouldn't need  hard drives. I think some have done a good job doing something similar to that.
 
 
 
 
 

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#25
Beagle
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/27 12:46:47 (permalink)
Tim,
I have a PX-3, which is the predecessor to the PX-5.  It's a stage piano with really decent piano sounds, but most importantly to me at the time of purchase, I liked the action on the keyboard better than any other weighted piano I tested, and I tested a lot of them!
 
I'm still happy with my PX-3 purchase, I still have it and still use it when I want the piano feel.  I'm primarily a "keys" player, though, so most of the time I'm using my MOXF6 which has synth keys, or my Hammond XK-3c which, of course has organ action with waterfall edges.
 
I can't say enough good about the PX-3, tho as far as value and getting out of it what I expect.  it's not our grandfathers' Casio!  lightweight and great keybed and action.  the only thing I don't like about it is the interface to select sounds (well, and most of the sounds are not the greatest - but the piano sounds are QUITE good - which is what this keyboard is for!).
 
and from looking at the write ups on the PX5, they've stepped up their game even from the PX-3!  it looks like they've improved the sound engine from the 3 and added a software editing capability for customizing the patches (like I have on my MOXF).  nice looking!
post edited by Beagle - 2016/06/27 13:09:09

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#26
thepianist65
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/29 07:34:39 (permalink)
I read those same articles before buying the Px5s. After a week or two I'm very happy with it. Great on a gig. I've been watching the webinars that cover everything, it's a great learning tool. Imported a couple of downloaded sounds from the forum, very nice. Still a ways to go to feel like I have grasped the more complex features, but really, I just wanted a lightweight stage piano with good sound and weighted touch, and this is surely it. It's fun to see how active the user community is, feels a lot like this here forum.

 www.davemaffris.com
 BLUES:
https://www.facebook.com/coastalblueband1/
 
https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#27
backwoods
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/29 07:45:03 (permalink)
I too have heard great things about the px5s. Casio got the Kurzweil guru to design it and from everything I've heard it is fantastic.
 
I have a PC3x (Kurzweil) and if I had my time again I wouldn't repeat. It is a heavy, unreliable (it blows fuses, the screen goes dark) piece of crud.
 
For my next board I think I am either going to get a Kawai VPC1 or one of those Native Instruments ones (S88)

 
#28
thepianist65
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/29 10:28:37 (permalink)
I would like to replace my Line 6 49 key controller, which I use in the studio for playing non-piano virtual instruments, with the Komplete Kontrol, probalby the S61. Since I record with Kontakt instruments, have Komplete Ultimate and many other non NKS compatible libraries, I would love to integrate the Komplete Kontrol stuff with my setup. However, having just purchased the PX5S (mostly for live performance and jamming, etc.) and a bunch of other stuff, I can't justify the S61 just yet. But wait a while, and I'll probably break down and take the plunge.
 

 www.davemaffris.com
 BLUES:
https://www.facebook.com/coastalblueband1/
 
https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#29
Jeff Evans
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Re: Looking At Keyboards- Recommendations ? 2016/06/29 16:51:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/07/05 14:35:42
The Casio sounds interesting and what is good about it is the price.  It is more affordable.  A Kurzweil for example is quite a bit more expensive but then again it is actually way more powerful and the sound quality probably still up there as one of the best.
 
I can't seem to find any link between Casio and Ray Kurzweil so that information may be incorrect.  I can’t see why Ray would actually ever need to design someone else's instrument.  But if he did have anything to do with it then that explains why it sounds so good.  But I am sure Casio are quite capable of making a good sounding instrument themselves.
 
I like the stage piano concept of the Casio with a powerful synth built in.  It seems like a good idea to me.  I have come across Casio in my teaching sound production in colleges capacity and every time I have been impressed with how they sound.
 
Where I am working now for example they have just invested in a new Yamaha PF115 but it is nowhere as interesting or as powerful as the Casio PX5S.  The Casio is even a great price in Australia too.
 
Sorry to hear backwoods was having trouble with his Kurzweil.  I have had many and never had any issues such as his.  The display on mine is large, very sharp and very high contrast as well. The PC3K6 is a much lighter 61 note synth action model and it much easier to move around.  I think the balance of weight of the instrument overall and a weighted action is important.  Sounds like Casio might have it right for example.
 
Crud is a poor choice of words to describe Kurzweils.  They sound incredible and sound wise have been out front way earlier than anyone else and been there for a long time.  Yes other brands have only caught up in sound quality but Kurzweil set the bar a long time ago and have kept others pushing their sound quality forward for years to the point where they are now.  Features are important but sound is also very important. A slightly thin sounding instrument will fall down live and in the studio.
 
I used to play in a band with a great keyboard player who bought one of those Ensoniq TS10's and used it live with a nice Bose system. But it sounded terrible. He ended up with a Roland that just sounded way better live.  The sound had more depth and power and worked against the live drums and everything else much more so.  I have recently stopped playing with an Elvis and Orbison tribute show and that keyboard player had a Yamaha SY85 and I did not like it live either.  It struggled to sound fat.  Later he got a Korg stage piano and a Roland Fantom and then everything suddenly got way better.
 
These cases were a real eye opener for me in how poor some of these things can sound live.  Against my massive Sonor drum sound, a big bass rig and guitar amps etc.. Only decent instruments can hold their own in these types of situations.  The keyboard stage sound system is also another topic too.  It needs to be good and I mean good.

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Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
#30
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