QuadCore
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 219
- Joined: 2009/05/04 15:50:49
- Status: offline
Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
Hi Sonar X peeps. I have my eye on a MOTU 828x (to be connected via USB to PC win7 i7) because it has virtual live mixer for latency free overdubs, the processing looks to be decent, and it has more than one S/PDIF I/O (RCA & Optical), but i don't know enough about the Virtual live mixer and effects to make a decision. I am also considering the RME UCX for its virtual liver mixer and effects, and for its more than one S/PDIF I/O (RCA & Optical), and although it cost a lot more, the RME virtual mixer looks pretty versatile. There is a lot to consider, so i thought it's time to see what other people have to say.
So i'm very curious - what do you all think is the best audio interface to work seamlessly with Sonar X3 (and win7 64bit) and beyond?
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 01:38:06
(permalink)
Definitely the RME UCX.
I have 2 x RME FF800's and thinking of selling them to get just 1 UFX (the bigger brother to the UCX, the new flagship product). I have found RME to be as good a company to deal with as Cakewalk and they will always work with you. Top drivers, support and hardware. At the top of their game and there's always something new.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
Razorwit
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1235
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:39:32
- Location: SLC, UT
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 02:02:19
(permalink)
Hi Quadcore, I've owned MOTU, Lynx and now RME (currently running a HDSPe MADI fx driving a Orion32 and Lynx Aurora 16) and RME is, IMHO, the best of them. The Lynx AES16e interface was quite good, but the RME just is a better device, and either of them are better than the MOTU stuff. RME just has better/more frequently updated drivers, fantastic support and really great gear. The RME gear is more expensive, but in this case it really is a "you get what you pay for" situation. Dean Oh, and the UCX is the flagship? Ha! I see your 60 channels of I/O and raise you 330!  (kidding of course)
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
|
Jay Tee 4303
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 246
- Joined: 2013/01/08 08:42:11
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 05:53:39
(permalink)
I own MOTU, M-Audio, and Focusrite interfaces, and I'm just far enough into MOTU's DSP mixer to be uncomfortable with something I think I'm seeing. Each stereo pair of outputs has its own page in the mixer.
Getting acquainted with the hardware and software, I'm tracking vocals, light compression to tame big peaks, with a bit of reverb into the monitor mix. Signal to the DAW for recording is tapped at the compresser outs, before the reverb send, headphones are tapped at the end of the chain, after reverb return.
Setting levels has been quite and adventure. Using a tube preamp, which takes time to warm up, and which alters the tone as you approach saturation.
I'm bouncing back and forth between at least three mix pages for each turn of any knob down the chain, and I had to stop and make a diagram to keep track of what's what. MOTU lets you name each mix, and it won't be long before I have these feeds committed to memory, but I'm wondering what's going to happen when I have two guitars, a bass, keyboard player, drums on several channels, a vocalist and backup vocalists in here laying down basic tracks, and everybody wants a unique monitor mix.
The Focusrites and some of the M-Audio interfaces have similar DSP setups with the Motu, but the M-Audio Profire 2626 has DSP software in an 18x16 I/O configuration, with main faders, and 7 sends, all visible on one screen.
If you plan to use much outboard processing, or need to set up and maintain several different monitor mixes, you might look into ways to reduce the page turning in the DSP mixer, for speed, efficiency, and less stress.
IBM PC/XT 1 MB RAM 8087 Math Co-Processor 5 Megabyte Seagate Hard Drive Twelvetone Cakewalk Version 2.0
|
neirbod
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 343
- Joined: 2005/05/09 12:27:26
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 06:31:47
(permalink)
I have never used Motu gear, but I can say RME's Total Mix mixing software is wonderful. Incredibly flexible, good effects (I and others use it at a live board), and very low latency. Mixing software is an often overlooked but very important part of any interface, so good for you for asking this question.
RME also has the best support in the business, not just to provide necessary bug fixes but also frequently adding new features. Rme senior developers are constantly on their forums responding to questions and feature requests. If you can afford it, I would go with RME.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
|
TabSel
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 284
- Joined: 2011/02/15 04:32:33
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 09:38:55
(permalink)
I use multiple PCs, now on Win 8.1 and a MacBook Pro.
I own two RME HDSP Digifaces since about 12 years now, a RME Babyface for mobile and recently bought a Motu 828x.
Which was disastrous.
I bought it to use it with either PC or Mac via USB2, or Mac via Thunderbolt, well, to be flexibel in future.
First of all, I couldn't get it to work on any of my Win PCs! The CueMix FX Software simply did not show any signal meters, the ASIO driver did not work (I could select it in any ASIO host, but it simply did not transport audio in any direction in/out of the PC)
After days and days of trying to troubleshoot this thing I noticed that it simply does not work with Native Instruments Maschine connected to the same USB controller, on neither PC!
Secondly, when I do NOT use the Motu via WDM/ASIO, but standalone, nevertheless connected to the Win PC via USB, I get extremely loud high pitched distortion on ADAT Out B ch 6 and some impulse on ADAT Out B ch 5, whenever I close the CueMix FX window, or reopen it, or change clock/buffer settings in the Motu Audio Console panel. Muto Tech support confirmed this issue, they could reproduce it! Fix? Nope...
Third, the Motu does not adapt to the samplerate of a external clock. It DOES detect the sample rate, but doesnt switch to it automatically.
I NEVER EVER had ANY issues with RME. NEVER! I love TotalMix, I am so used to be able to route anything anywhere. The CueMix FX software, well, I don't like it. It's so hard to work with it. Also, you only can create 8 Stereo Mixes for all available outpus! Meaning, if you use the Motu for AD/DA, you could route 8 Analog Ins (there are 10) to 8 ADAT Outs (= 4 stereo) and 8 ADAT Ins (= 4 Stereo) to 8 Analog Outs (there are 12)... and that's it. No way to route anything else.
The DSP Fx are surely nice, but they can't be controlled/recalled with a DAW project, they are entirely separate (ok, this is the case with the RME Babyface, too)
You can NOT route DAW channels!
Depending on the samplerate DSP ressources are limited. No Reverb with >48Khz, for example.
One Stereo Headphone output ALLWAYS mirrors the Main Out, the front panel knob controls BOTH Main Monitor Speaker Level AND Headphone Level... no way around.
You can NOT record dry but route an Input through EQ/Dynamics for headphone monitoring!!! Any Fx on an Input gets printed! You could route the input out any other out, loopbacked into another channel (losing one Mix Bus of the available 8, per Input!), in order to have the ability to record dry and monitor through EQ/Dynamics... There's no switch "EQ/Dyn for record" like with RME TotalMix FX devices.
All in all, If I had known this in advance, I'd bought a RME Device, again, instead of "trying another brand", or a Apollo Quad, or even a Sonic Core Xite-1.
The Motu is a FINE device, for what it is capable of, even though it has some serious quirks, but I feel too limited with ir.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 09:58:53
(permalink)
I bought the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP after getting feedback here, but I personally have not delved into its Virtual Reference Monitoring (VRM) much at all yet. It is not included with all models, and has had hype behind it, but I certainly cannot go beyond an "honorable mention" without having used it. (The VRM is to let you monitor mixing with headphones and hear the chosen environment correctly via headphones).
The MixControl software I have used a lot and enjoy its flexibility (I think this is included with every model). I am not sure if the OP is speaking specifically to this feature, but that is very functional and useful. This particular model is limited on inputs/outputs however.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10654
- Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
- Location: TeXaS
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 10:44:03
(permalink)
I'm not sure what you are talking about - DSP effects or non-latency mixing? Almost every interface (well, every one I'm familiar with) has a way to tap the input signal before it is sent to the computer so you can monitor an overdub in step with previously recorded tracks. Usually this is done w/ a virtual hardware mixer and the only latency is from the conversion process which we are unable to distinguish.
DSP is usually considered adding effects to this signal - before the computer and SONAR's mixing - in real time. Most commonly it is reverb to make the singer more comfortable w/ their voice. Although a virtual mixer can be DSP based too, no one in a studio talks about it that way.
If you are only concerned about driver stability and a great mixer, RME is the first place to look. It is pricey for the sound quality you get, but you are putting your money into stability and flexibility. Not to say the sound quality is poor - but you can get broadcast quality sound cheaper.
Motu has a good reputation - and certain computer build specialists here on the forum recommend it. But like any interface on a PC, certain configs just don't seem to work w/ certain hardware. That even happens to - gasp - RME at times and it can be a real bear to track down. Just because you bought an RME or TI chipset for Firewire doesn't guarantee no problems, just less of a chance of a problem.
As far as virtual mixers - it is a real art to making them understandable. I've got a TCK 48 at home which is a great piece of hardware, great sound and top DSP. But routing is a mess and hard to understand and if you get something wrong you have to wade through 3 separate pages to track things down. It is scary and I stay away as much as possible so I"ve never learned to grok it. Others don't have problems w/ it. So again, there are no guarantees.
The moto ought to be fine. The RME a step up, tho I doubt you'll hear much of a difference in conversion quality - or enough to justify spending 2 or 3 times as much. You are putting that money in drivers and support as much as anything.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
|
Sacalait
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 552
- Joined: 2008/01/01 16:59:28
- Location: South Louisiana, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 11:21:28
(permalink)
I think it's very difficult to go wrong with ANY RME device. I have a MultiFace II I've owned for about 7 years now. I listen to some of the recordings I did with it when it was my only interface (using a Roland VS700 now) and it rivals or beats the Roland. I'm using the RME as my monitor controller- which is way overkill for this unit. I can't vouch for mic pre's in the RME products (I'm certain they're very good) but the D/A A/D is stellar.
www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700, A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
|
thomasabarnes
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3234
- Joined: 2003/11/11 03:19:17
- Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 14:06:20
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby wormser 2014/03/27 18:03:50
I can't sit here and let TabSel make all these unverifiable retorts about MOTU gear. TabSel
I own two RME HDSP Digifaces since about 12 years now, a RME Babyface for mobile and recently bought a Motu 828x.
Which was disastrous.
MOTU has some great gear and it usually has exceptional performance, and is very reliable and durable. I don't have the 828x, but I have the UltraLite-mk3, and it's been running flawlessly since I bought it (more than 7 years ago.) If you frequented these forums for any good amount of time, you will know regular users of the forum advise against hastily buying new gear. It is advised to give it a while until you can see how it's performing for others, as new gear typically needs time to be refined, as is usually the case with all new releases, including SONAR new releases. Bugs need to be ironed out, to sort of speak. Even in view of this, I find it hard to believe MOTU would have released the new 828x with some of the issues TabSel are claiming. TabSel
First of all, I couldn't get it to work on any of my Win PCs! The CueMix FX Software simply did not show any signal meters, the ASIO driver did not work (I could select it in any ASIO host, but it simply did not transport audio in any direction in/out of the PC)
After days and days of trying to troubleshoot this thing I noticed that it simply does not work with Native Instruments Maschine connected to the same USB controller, on neither PC!
In the above quote, you describe an issue that is a system configuration related issue, not an issue that's solely pinpointed to be MOTU's fault, as you allude it to be. For years, it's been acknowledged that devices sharing IRQs are known to exhibit issues, so you erroneous place blame for this issue on MOTU. By doing that, you unfairly and falsely paint a gruesome picture of the performance and reliability of the MOTU hardware, when the issue you describe above is a system configuration issue. TabSel
Secondly, when I do NOT use the Motu via WDM/ASIO, but standalone, nevertheless connected to the Win PC via USB, I get extremely loud high pitched distortion on ADAT Out B ch 6 and some impulse on ADAT Out B ch 5, whenever I close the CueMix FX window, or reopen it, or change clock/buffer settings in the Motu Audio Console panel. Muto Tech support confirmed this issue, they could reproduce it! Fix? Nope...
As stated earlier, new gear may exhibit issues. That's why it's not advised to buy new gear until it's been tested by time. Nevertheless, new gear comes with a warranty, return it to the store or to MOTU for an exchange or repair. Surely MOTU didn't deny you to send them gear that's under warranty for repair? TabSel
Third, the Motu does not adapt to the samplerate of a external clock. It DOES detect the sample rate, but doesnt switch to it automatically.
MOTU gear have control panels (MOTU Audio console and MOTU SMPTE Console) for switching the Master clock source. It leaves this selection in control of the user. This is good so that the selection of a clock source and syncing is not selected unintentionally, as that could have a user confused as to what is happening. TabSel
I NEVER EVER had ANY issues with RME. NEVER! I love TotalMix, I am so used to be able to route anything anywhere. The CueMix FX software, well, I don't like it. It's so hard to work with it. Also, you only can create 8 Stereo Mixes for all available outpus! Meaning, if you use the Motu for AD/DA, you could route 8 Analog Ins (there are 10) to 8 ADAT Outs (= 4 stereo) and 8 ADAT Ins (= 4 Stereo) to 8 Analog Outs (there are 12)... and that's it. No way to route anything else.
The Cuemix FX software is very capable and has versatile routing, and 8 mixes is more than I'll ever need. Cuemix FX allows for any number of inputs on your audio interface to be be mixed down to any output pair on your audio interface up to 8 outputs or 4 stereo pairs. That is enough for my needs. The number of output pairs an audio interface should support is a choice made according to the needs of the user, and the user buys an audio interface to suit his/her needs. It is a good practice to research the unit you're going to buy. To buy a piece of gear and then complain that it doesn't suit your needs is certainly a novice thing to do. TabSel
The DSP Fx are surely nice, but they can't be controlled/recalled with a DAW project, they are entirely separate (ok, this is the case with the RME Babyface, too)
The DSP effects, that were assigned to inputs, outputs and, mix busses through the CueMix FX software, can be saved as presets. These preset can be quickly recalled from the CueMix FX user interface when a project is loaded. I have no reason to assume this has changed with the 828x. It comes with CueMix FX. TabSel
You can NOT route DAW channels!
That's a good feature of Total Mix, but I would expect good features like this in the RME packages, as the RME outboard units are hundreds of dollars more than than most MOTU units. TabSel
Depending on the samplerate DSP ressources are limited. No Reverb with >48Khz, for example.
This is a sort of deceiving remark. Of course DSP resources are limited, but the clear fact is this: The 828x’s flexible effects architecture allows you to apply EQ and compression on every input and output (a total of 32 channels), with enough DSP resources for at least one band of parametric EQ and compression on every channel at 48 kHz. TabSel
One Stereo Headphone output ALLWAYS mirrors the Main Out, the front panel knob controls BOTH Main Monitor Speaker Level AND Headphone Level... no way around.
WRONG! From the factory, the PHONES jack (Figure 6-1) is a discrete output at 44.1/48 kHz, but it can mirror any other output pair (digital or analog) or serve as its own independent output. For example, at 88.2/ 96 kHz, it defaults to mirroring the XLR main outs. When the phones output is set as a discrete output, it's independent volume can be controlled from The Cuemix FX software. On the CueMix FX Outputs tab select the Monitor button under Phones 1-2, click on the Meters tab, and use the Monitor level knob to adjust the phones independent volume. TabSel
You can NOT record dry but route an Input through EQ/Dynamics for headphone monitoring!!! Any Fx on an Input gets printed! You could route the input out any other out, loopbacked into another channel (losing one Mix Bus of the available 8, per Input!), in order to have the ability to record dry and monitor through EQ/Dynamics... There's no switch "EQ/Dyn for record" like with RME TotalMix FX devices.
The above quote is full of misinformation. This is just a case of "read the manual": The CueMix FX mixer allows you to apply no latency effects processing to inputs, outputs or busses directly in the 828x hardware, independent of the computer. Effects can even be applied when the 828x is operating stand-alone (without a computer). Input signals to the computer can be recorded wet, dry, or dry with a wet monitor mix (for musicians during recording, for example). TabSel
The Motu is a FINE device, for what it is capable of, even though it has some serious quirks, but I feel too limited with ir.
The serious quirks you attribute to the MOTU hardware are largely a result of user error or lack of knowlege about the capability of the MOTU hardware and software. The RME outboard units should be more feature rich and have more capable functionality than the 828x, as the price point for the RME units are hundreds of dollars more than the 828x, but the MOTU hardware and software is typically a good investment, as MOTU has an excellent history of having provided audio interfaces that are, typically, reliable, have good performance, and have great driver support. @ the OP If I were you, I wouldn't immediately jump on the new gear for reasons I pointed out earlier in this post, unless you want to be adventurous. And in that case Steinberg has released a new audio interface which is available at an inexpensive price point ($300) that has been getting impressive reviews. You might want to look at that. http://www.steinberg.net/...eries/models/ur44.html Don't get me wrong? The RME outboard audio interfaces, such as the Fireface 400, Fireface 800, Fireface UCX, Fireface UFX, and the RME Babyface are excellent choices for audio interfaces, but the MOTU gear is not poor quality stuff. MOTU does make and offer good quality audio interfaces. Hope that helps.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2014/03/25 14:33:02
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
|
TabSel
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 284
- Joined: 2011/02/15 04:32:33
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 17:57:27
(permalink)
Well, these were my personal experiences with the Motu 828x. It doesn't work (no meters in CueMixFx, no audio I/O via WMD/ASIO) when connected to the same usb2 controller as my Maschine controller. True for both of my win PCs, laptop and desktop. May be it is a relevant piece of information for the OP. RME gear DOES, though, whatever is to blame, Maschine, Motu, Microsoft, my pc builder, me myself and I... Digital noise on ADAT B ch 5/6 when connected via USB to a win machine, upon opening/closing CueMixFx and/or altering settings in motu audio console, reproducible and confirmed by motu tech support. It does NOT happen when connected via thunderbolt or when connected to a MacBook Pro, thunderbolt or usb, so there can't be a hardware issue, exchanging/repairing the unit on warranty won't yield nothing. The 828x basically is a 828mk3 with a thunderbolt/FireWire adapter "built" in. The 828mk3 is quite some years proven now, so the argument "being a new device that has bugs"... Well, even it was so, this digital noise might damage gear and ears and is unacceptable for a 800€ device. It might be something the OP wants to know, as these thing usually aren't described in the manual. The manual says "computer). Input signals to the computer can be recorded wet, dry, or dry with a wet monitor mix (for musicians during recording, for example)", right, which lead to my first motu support request and a refund assurance on request by my dealer, because it simply is misleading misinformation: you can NOT apply EQ/Dynamics to a input (Mic) signal, send the processed signal (zero latency monitor) to the output where your daw sends the headphone mix to, BUT record the dry Mic signal. You can apply EQ/Dynamics to the output (STEREO ONLY), but you'd EQ/Dynamics the headphone mix too! So, without loopbacking signals (losing channels!), it is NOT possible to record dry and monitor wet. The daw receives the input channel data AFTER EQ/Dyn, allways. The manual is surely misleading here. The 828x features TWO headphone outs. One of it is, as you cited the manual, either a separately addressable output (for CueMixFx and the daw only when samplerate <= 96Khz) or mirrors any physical output. The other headphone out ALLWAYS mirrors the main out, so it is NOT possible to setup TWO independent cue mixes in addition to the main mix. It's stated in the manual, but it might be of interest, nonetheless. The CueMixFx can NOT save/recall EQ and/or Dynamics settings for individual channels. It can save the COMPLETE MIXER State as preset only, but not individual channel settings. You can NOT copy EQ/Dyn settings of one channel to another (you can do this via the front panel but not with the software) etc... However, software UI design is highly subjective. You like it, I find it quirky. The motu audio console exe can NOT be opened when you are using the ASIO driver. It then says "there's no motu audio device connected". You only can open the console via the control panel button in the DAW. When you do, all audio is stopped, until you close the console. Compared to the rme ASIO settings panel: open it from wherever you like, audio keeps playing. Little things, but an indicator of software quality. However, after more than a decade of RME usage, it's the things you notice only, when you lost them. Again, it's subjective. As is sample rate adaption. To me, when I set a digital device up to be clocked external explicitly, I assume the device adapts to sample rate the external clock carries. I mean, there only is ONE master clock, and when I set the sample rate of that one clock, I assume my clocked gear adjusts? When I set the sr of my clock on one computer, I have to reach the other computer where my motu is connected to and explicitly tell the motu which samplerate my clock carries, even though I set the motu to be clocked externally.... Hmmm... Every other digital gear I own automatically adapts to the sample rate the clock carries when externally clocked. The motu does not. I understand your point of view, maybe you understand mine? However, there's no option to automatically follow the external clock... Another thing of interest maybe. I mean, it's just the way the Motu works, I am not complaining, I'm just describing how the motu works and stating how irritating it is to ME after getting used to RME gear. Have you ever worked with RME gear? As ONLY interface, the MOTU surely delivers, even though it has some serious issues, like digital dangerous noise. To me at least it was adventurous to even get it to work within my setup. As said, I had the chance to get a refund due to misleading manual / false advertising, but decided to keep the unit despite it quirks, for some reason. I just wanted to inform the OP.
post edited by TabSel - 2014/03/25 18:05:53
|
Guitarmech111
Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5085
- Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
- Location: Bayou City, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 19:54:56
(permalink)
RME UFX if you can afford it is a great no latency monitoring system you can use for a lot of things. TotalMix is da bomb for sure. There are lots of videos on youtube about it. There is a separate TotalMix for the UFX and UFC though in the videos.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8  Without a mess, there is no message
|
thomasabarnes
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3234
- Joined: 2003/11/11 03:19:17
- Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/25 22:50:51
(permalink)
TabSel: I think this 2nd post of yours reads as a fair, more plausible, and useful review of the MOTU 828x and your experience with using it, however, views are subjective in some places, as you yourself acknowledge. TabSel
Well, these were my personal experiences with the Motu 828x.
It doesn't work (no meters in CueMixFx, no audio I/O via WMD/ASIO) when connected to the same usb2 controller as my Maschine controller. True for both of my win PCs, laptop and desktop. May be it is a relevant piece of information for the OP. RME gear DOES, though, whatever is to blame, Maschine, Motu, Microsoft, my pc builder, me myself and I...
Digital noise on ADAT B ch 5/6 when connected via USB to a win machine, upon opening/closing CueMixFx and/or altering settings in motu audio console, reproducible and confirmed by motu tech support.
It does NOT happen when connected via thunderbolt or when connected to a MacBook Pro, thunderbolt or usb, so there can't be a hardware issue, exchanging/repairing the unit on warranty won't yield nothing. The 828x basically is a 828mk3 with a thunderbolt/FireWire adapter "built" in. The 828mk3 is quite some years proven now, so the argument "being a new device that has bugs"... Well, even it was so, this digital noise might damage gear and ears and is unacceptable for a 800€ device.
It might be something the OP wants to know, as these thing usually aren't described in the manual.
Fair enough. As evident by your report that the 828x works on a Mac or via thunderbolt, the issues can be narrowed down to, possibly, Windows, MOTU Windows drivers, system configuration, or a combination of the three. MOTU hybrid USB units have been selling, and I've seen no bad reports about those Hybrid USB units not performing well. MOTU has a history of writing good drivers, so the MOTU drivers can probably be ruled out. But, go figure. As I said in my first post, It's not advised to buy new gear until some of the more bothersome bugs have been worked out. TabSel
The manual says "computer). Input signals to the computer can be recorded wet, dry, or dry with a wet monitor mix (for musicians during recording, for example)", right, which lead to my first motu support request and a refund assurance on request by my dealer, because it simply is misleading misinformation: you can NOT apply EQ/Dynamics to a input (Mic) signal, send the processed signal (zero latency monitor) to the output where your daw sends the headphone mix to, BUT record the dry Mic signal. You can apply EQ/Dynamics to the output (STEREO ONLY), but you'd EQ/Dynamics the headphone mix too! So, without loopbacking signals (losing channels!), it is NOT possible to record dry and monitor wet. The daw receives the input channel data AFTER EQ/Dyn, allways. The manual is surely misleading here.
In my view, the manual is not misleading. I know with my UltraLite-mk3 (using CueMix FX) I can do as the manual says. I can record input signals wet, dry, or dry with a wet monitor mix. The thing here is that you have to do it the way the 828x is designed to do it, not the way you do it with RME gear or software (Total Mix), and not the way you feel it is suppose to be done. I have to admit the manual doen't do a great job concerning how to apply these features. To Record Dynamics and EQ wet: Using CueMix FX, place the effect (EQ or dynamics) on the input you desire, in SONAR select that input as the audio track input for an audio track, arm that track and record. The wet signal will be recorded. To record Reverb wet: Using CueMix FX, on the Inputs tab, place reverb on the Input you want reverb on, in the Channels Settings section, select the Reverb tab and turn on the reverb and select Mixes as the Split Point. On the Mixes tab, in the Mix Buss section, adjust the RTN knob as desired. With SONAR closed, open MOTU Audio console and select the Return Assign input you want to record with. In SONAR, make sure You have that Return assign enabled (check mark in the box) in the Unified Preference View under Audio>Devices>Input Drivers. Select that return assign input from the audio track input dropdown list, and arm the track. When you record, the wet reverb signal will be recorded. To Record Input signals dry: Simply, just don't have any effect enabled in CueMix FX (Nor in SONAR on the track you want to record.) To Record dry but monitor as wet for Dynamics and EQ: Using cueMix FX, on the Outputs tab, place the effect only on the output channel/s you want to hear effects for, enable the Monitor button for those channels, and adjust the monitor volume using the Monitor Level knob on the CueMix FX GUI. For Reverb: Do the same as pointed out above under "To record Reverb wet," but as the audio track input, select the appropriate ASIO Analog input, instead of ASIO Reverb input. If you need more details, let me know? TabSel
The 828x features TWO headphone outs. One of it is, as you cited the manual, either a separately addressable output (for CueMixFx and the daw only when samplerate <= 96Khz) or mirrors any physical output. The other headphone out ALLWAYS mirrors the main out, so it is NOT possible to setup TWO independent cue mixes in addition to the main mix.
It's stated in the manual, but it might be of interest, nonetheless.
Fair enough. But you have discrete volume control for one headphone output. I thought you meant discrete volume control was not possible at all. TabSel
The CueMixFx can NOT save/recall EQ and/or Dynamics settings for individual channels. It can save the COMPLETE MIXER State as preset only, but not individual channel settings. You can NOT copy EQ/Dyn settings of one channel to another (you can do this via the front panel but not with the software) etc... However, software UI design is highly subjective. You like it, I find it quirky.
There are 16 hardware presets slots in which a user can save and restore any number of enabled or disabled effects, channels settings, eq and dynamics settings, or monitor setup settings, including all buttons, knob, and sliders, and tabs states. Though you may have it better with TotalMix, what the MOTU software is capable of is still good stuff.  TabSel
The motu audio console exe can NOT be opened when you are using the ASIO driver. It then says "there's no motu audio device connected". You only can open the console via the control panel button in the DAW. When you do, all audio is stopped, until you close the console. Compared to the rme ASIO settings panel: open it from wherever you like, audio keeps playing. Little things, but an indicator of software quality. However, after more than a decade of RME usage, it's the things you notice only, when you lost them. Again, it's subjective.
I agree the above is subjective. I have no problems with the MOTU Audio Console not being able to open when the driver is being used by an audio program. I don't mind having to stop the audio engine when I need to change the sample rate setting or the ASIO buffer size setting. TabSel
As is sample rate adaption. To me, when I set a digital device up to be clocked external explicitly, I assume the device adapts to sample rate the external clock carries. I mean, there only is ONE master clock, and when I set the sample rate of that one clock, I assume my clocked gear adjusts? When I set the sr of my clock on one computer, I have to reach the other computer where my motu is connected to and explicitly tell the motu which samplerate my clock carries, even though I set the motu to be clocked externally.... Hmmm... Every other digital gear I own automatically adapts to the sample rate the clock carries when externally clocked. The motu does not. I understand your point of view, maybe you understand mine? However, there's no option to automatically follow the external clock... Another thing of interest maybe. I mean, it's just the way the Motu works, I am not complaining, I'm just describing how the motu works and stating how irritating it is to ME after getting used to RME gear.
I'm working with only one computer, so I can do things from the screen using my audio interfaces software. I sympathize with your situation. The MOTU units are not perfect and there are audio interfaces that handle clock syncing better. TabSel
Have you ever worked with RME gear?
As ONLY interface, the MOTU surely delivers, even though it has some serious issues, like digital dangerous noise. To me at least it was adventurous to even get it to work within my setup.
As said, I had the chance to get a refund due to misleading manual / false advertising, but decided to keep the unit despite it quirks, for some reason.
I just wanted to inform the OP.
I never had an RME audio interface. I've read good reports about them for years. I have been planning on getting a Lynx Auora 8, but I've been looking at and researching the RME Fireface UFX and I'm impressed. I might get it, instead. But I'm still thinking about it. One thing I do not like about reports I'm hearing about the Fireface UFX is that SONAR sometimes prompts the user with a "Device has been disconnected" alert. To me, that's not good news. I thought you said the "digital dangerous noise" was not present when using thunderbolt or a Mac? Am I not understanding you correctly? As I said above, I don't think the manual is misleading when it says "input signals can be recorded wet, dry, or dry with a monitor mix" because I am able to do this with my UltraLite-mk3. Cya around.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2014/03/26 03:03:01
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
|
TabSel
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 284
- Joined: 2011/02/15 04:32:33
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 02:16:50
(permalink)
Well, i want to record my voice while listening to a headphone mix my DAWs creates AND zerolatency monitor my voice EQ/Dyn processed, reverberated, while recording dry.
Common situation, I think. You can NOT do this.
|
Jay Tee 4303
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 246
- Joined: 2013/01/08 08:42:11
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 02:22:17
(permalink)
Couple of positive features I've noticed w MOTU and CueMix. The tradeoff in paging mix screens per stereo out, is MANY more inputs per mix.
The 2626 gives me an 18x16 mix on one page, where the MOTU gives me 24 pages of 48x2 mixes, plus input gain, pad, mute, and solo for each.
The other plus w the MOTU system is more inputs total, more at a time, and more in monitor mixes. I have a pair of 2408s, which allows me to connect at least 116 ins and 116 outs, from which I can mix up to 48 in and out at a time.
At a price point of $1600, for the pair, or $30 per I/O channel, I further know I'm not throwing money at low end preamps to duplicate better ones I have in outboard racks, but focusing on the A/D and D/A end which fits my needs precisely.
There are tradeoffs in all directions, but those can work for you with advance planning, and threads like these.
IBM PC/XT 1 MB RAM 8087 Math Co-Processor 5 Megabyte Seagate Hard Drive Twelvetone Cakewalk Version 2.0
|
thomasabarnes
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3234
- Joined: 2003/11/11 03:19:17
- Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 15:07:18
(permalink)
TabSel
Well, i want to record my voice while listening to a headphone mix my DAWs creates AND zerolatency monitor my voice EQ/Dyn processed, reverberated, while recording dry.
Common situation, I think. You can NOT do this.
Here's a possible way to do this, but the EQ and Dynamics will affect the entire headphone Monitor Mix, but none of the effects will be recorded. Reverb will just be on the vocal, but not recorded. Setup for CueMix FX: On the MIXES tab, click on the dropdown arrow of the Mixes tab and select the discrete headphones mix. Mute all channels on the Mixes tab except the masterbus and the channel you will have the mic connected to. Make sure the faders are up the buss and the channel you will have the mic connected to. On the CueMix tools menu, under Phones, select Follow Active Mix. Click on the Outputs tab and make sure only the Monitor button for the discrete headphones output is enabled, adjust the volume level with the Monitor Level knob on CueMix FX. You should be able to hear your voice (with zero latency monitoring) now. To get the reverb on the vocal channel: Click on the Inputs tab and turn up the VRB Send knob. Click on the Reverb tab in the Master Channel section of CueMix FX and enable the reverb and select Mixes under Split Point. Click on the Mixes tab and turn up the buss reverb return knob (RTN knob.) You should hear the reverb on your vocal now. For EQ and Dynamics: Click on the Outputs tab. Enable the EQ button for the discrete headphones output. In the Master Channel section of Cuemix FX, click on the EQ tab. Enable the EQ bands you want to use and set them like you want. You should hear the EQ on your vocal now. You should still be on the Outputs tab, if not click on it. Enable the Dynamics button. In the Master Channel section of Cuemix FX, click on the Dynamics tab. Enable the Compressor, Leveler, or both and make your settings in those areas. You should hear the dynamics effect on the vocal now. Setup For SONAR or Your DAW: You said you have a headphones mix created in your DAW. I reckon this mix is a headphones buss. If it is a buss, make the output of that buss the discrete headphones output. Or you can try my suggestion below for creating a Headphones buss. As long as you don't select any ASIO Reverb inputs for the vocal track, the vocal will be recorded dry. Now, you should be able to record the vocal dry, while monitoring reverb and effects with zero latency. Create a Headphones buss and make the output of this buss the discrete headphones output. The Headphones buss will be the headphones mix. Create sends for all the tracks you want to have in the headphones mix, and using the send level of those tracks, send them to the Headphones buss. Hope this helps.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2014/03/26 15:22:11
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
|
Ludvig
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 272
- Joined: 2004/06/07 04:25:54
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 15:10:41
(permalink)
I would also consider Roland Studio-Capture UA-1610.
Great pre's and stability!
Best Regards
Ludvig
Intel Core i7 3770K | ASRock Z77 | 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz | ATI Radeon HD6450 PCI-E | 30" @ 2560 x 1600 | 2x120GB Intel 330 SSD's | 5TB HD's | Win 8.1 Pro 64-bit | SONAR Platinum Everett | All PC-modules | Octa-Capture | Studio-Capture | VS-700 |
|
RogerH
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 608
- Joined: 2007/09/10 17:50:07
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 16:03:31
(permalink)
I'm really happy with my RME fireface UFX.
A song from my band: Terramater My soundcloud pageSonar Platinum Windows 7 Professional (SP1) 64Bit Intel Core i7 Quad Processor i7-2600K 3,4GHz MSI P67A-C45 (MOBO) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL9 (2x4GB) Seagate Barracuda® 7200.12 1TB Seagate Barracuda® XT 2TB
[font="arial, sans-se
|
TabSel
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 284
- Joined: 2011/02/15 04:32:33
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 16:15:11
(permalink)
thomasabarnes...
Hope this helps.
Lol, no. But thanks for your time. It isn't necessary to invest so much time, I fully understand my gear. Which is the reason to state: It isn't possible to mix a daw cue mix with a Motu mic input processed through Motu EQ/Dyn and record the input dry. As the OP mentioned he was looking for a device for zero latency monitoring with DSP fx, I thought I will stress that with the Motu it is NOT possible to then record the input dry, nothing more, nothing less. I know my gear. I usually use a rme digiface as ASIO device and master mixer, which receives inputs from the motu and with which I'm able to route/loopback channels back to the motu, through EQ/Dyn/rev, back to the digiface again, and record dry AND EQ/Dyned simultaneously AND use that same motu channel as "external fx" for playing back the recorded vocals etc etc etc., route/split/sum/distribute several other digital gear, preamp-A/D, the babyfaces I/O via adat etc etc. I guess I know what I'm talking about ;) with the motu alone: it simply isn't possible to record an input dry and monitor this input EQ/Dyned/reverberated and mixed with a stereo cue mix from the daw, is it? As I said: I studied the manual before my purchase and got the impression it would be possible, I mean, it is something that is quite common in the studio, isn't it the usual way to zero lat track vocals to individual cue mixes? And the manual says "you can record dry, wet, or DRY WITH A WET MONITOR MIX". Which IS misleading IMHO. I want to stress this issue to the OP, and to anyone who considers buying the motu for zero lat monitoring with DSP fx: it then Is NOT possible to record dry. Well, guess I stressed it enough now. @OP: The best thing to do would be "try before you buy", different devices, if possible.
|
thomasabarnes
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3234
- Joined: 2003/11/11 03:19:17
- Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 18:07:31
(permalink)
TabSel
I want to stress this issue to the OP, and to anyone who considers buying the motu for zero lat monitoring with DSP fx: it then Is NOT possible to record dry.
In post #16 I explained a possible way to do that, but it must not be what you mean you want to do. After pondering to understand what you are trying to tell us, it looks like what you're trying to convey to everybody is "it is not possible to apply an effect to an input signal using CueMix FX and get a dry recording when you record that input." If that's what you are trying to say, you are right. If you apply EQ and compression to the input signal, you will record the processed version of the signal in your host audio software running on the computer." But "input signals to the computer can be recorded wet, dry, or dry with a wet signal" using the MOTU 828x as the only audio interface. I explained how to do that in post #13. I wonder why you still can't see it. I'm thinking maybe English is not your native language, so we're misunderstanding each other, or I've done a poor job explaining. Whatever the case, the OP said he was considering getting a Fireface UCX. I would say: "get the best audio interface you can afford," and I'm sure most would agree that the Fireface UCX is the better audio interface. Cya all around
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2014/03/26 18:14:36
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/26 18:31:17
(permalink)
I'm personally not in love with Focusrites Mix Control software.
I'm finding it a bit buggy. I have also noticed the meters are always showing peaks that I don't believe actually happened. It has a peak hold and almost everytime I open the mixer both inputs and output have the red indicator stuck there.
I don't buy it. I'm working on projects that are well within the saftey zone and Sonars Master bus is not showing a peak.
While tracking I'm finding I have to record a bit lower than I did with my Tascam as those red lights bother me. But same story, they certainly don't match Sonars track meters.
I wish there was a way to not have to use the mixer and go directly. The Mix Control looks like it will be useful when tracking a full band, but for one person it is not needed.
And I would rather use a real mixing board anyhow. If I ever build a bigger system I'll go with a digital desk and some sort of MADI or ADAT to PC.
|
Geo524
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 647
- Joined: 2010/04/18 00:41:06
- Location: UpState, NY
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 00:14:17
(permalink)
I've been very happy with my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. Great sounding preamps and rock-solid driver's. I haven't got into mix control yet so I can't comment on that but I think for all the features it offers it's the best interface out there in the $500 price range. Seriously there's a lot of I/0 and the option to add more if/when needed.
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
|
wruess
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 83
- Joined: 2009/11/16 10:01:10
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 02:38:10
(permalink)
The Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 does NOT have built-in DSP for 'zero-latency', i.e. live monitoring. They give you some plug-ins for effects, but the signal must go thru the DAW. I wish this weren't so. I would buy one and dump my Presonus 1818VSL in a heartbeat if the 18i20 had effects in the Mix Control software.
|
TabSel
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 284
- Joined: 2011/02/15 04:32:33
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 03:07:20
(permalink)
wruess
...dump my Presonus 1818VSL in a heartbeat if the 18i20 had effects in the Mix Control software.
Why? What are your experiences with the 1818VSL? How do you use it?
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 07:29:24
(permalink)
wruess
The Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 does NOT have built-in DSP for 'zero-latency', i.e. live monitoring. They give you some plug-ins for effects, but the signal must go thru the DAW. I wish this weren't so. I would buy one and dump my Presonus 1818VSL in a heartbeat if the 18i20 had effects in the Mix Control software.
I am confused by this comment, but also never used the Scarlett line. I thought the MixControl software was similar between the two. My Saffire 24 Pro DSP has compression/EQ (for inputs) and a reverb bus that can be mixed right in the box and sent to direct monitoring (or even recorded). My uses are pretty simplistic, but that comment makes me wonder if there is a difference between the Scarlett and Saffire versions. I often see them used interchangeably, so now I am a bit confused. The best overview video I have seen for the MixControl software is this one.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
musicroom
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2421
- Joined: 2004/04/26 22:31:02
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 10:55:33
(permalink)
QuadCore
Hi Sonar X peeps. I have my eye on a MOTU 828x (to be connected via USB to PC win7 i7) because it has virtual live mixer for latency free overdubs, the processing looks to be decent, and it has more than one S/PDIF I/O (RCA & Optical), but i don't know enough about the Virtual live mixer and effects to make a decision. I am also considering the RME UCX for its virtual liver mixer and effects, and for its more than one S/PDIF I/O (RCA & Optical), and although it cost a lot more, the RME virtual mixer looks pretty versatile. There is a lot to consider, so i thought it's time to see what other people have to say.
So i'm very curious - what do you all think is the best audio interface to work seamlessly with Sonar X3 (and win7 64bit) and beyond?
You may want to check out TC's Impact Twin. The built in DSP reverb sounds great and IS NOT printed to the track when you record. However, the eq and compressor will be printed if you use those 2 efx. The conversion of this unit is outstanding and compares and or wins out against higher price point interfaces. It's a gem.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
|
TabSel
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 284
- Joined: 2011/02/15 04:32:33
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 11:12:59
(permalink)
jfyi the Motu does NOT print Reverb, too, but eq/dyn on input always.
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 12:25:59
(permalink)
thomasabarnes
TabSel
I want to stress this issue to the OP, and to anyone who considers buying the motu for zero lat monitoring with DSP fx: it then Is NOT possible to record dry.
In post #16 I explained a possible way to do that, but it must not be what you mean you want to do.
After pondering to understand what you are trying to tell us, it looks like what you're trying to convey to everybody is "it is not possible to apply an effect to an input signal using CueMix FX and get a dry recording when you record that input."
If that's what you are trying to say, you are right. If you apply EQ and compression to the input signal, you will record the processed version of the signal in your host audio software running on the computer."
But "input signals to the computer can be recorded wet, dry, or dry with a wet signal" using the MOTU 828x as the only audio interface. I explained how to do that in post #13. I wonder why you still can't see it. I'm thinking maybe English is not your native language, so we're misunderstanding each other, or I've done a poor job explaining. Whatever the case, the OP said he was considering getting a Fireface UCX. I would say: "get the best audio interface you can afford," and I'm sure most would agree that the Fireface UCX is the better audio interface.
Cya all around
While I agree that TabSel's original review of the 828 seemed very harsh and unfair, I actually agree with him on this point and I think it's very relevant to the OP. If you want to record dry but have your interface provide some FX (eg for vocals) you cannot do this properly with the MOTU. You can apply a bunch of FX to an output pair but that is not the same thing. You would be putting the same reverb, eq and compression on the entire mix going to that output. What you want to do is craft a nice vocal sound using the provided tools (compression, EQ and verb) and then add the backing track separately while recording dry. This seems to me entirely expected behavior of a recording interface with DSP fx. Even my aging and limited E-MU 1820M does this. As does the super simple 0404. I definitely think this is worth noting to the OP.
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 12:32:55
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby QuadCore 2014/03/28 03:48:24
If the OP has the budget, an RME audio interface would be a great choice.
Think of RME as the Neuman of audio interfaces.
Rock solid, great sound, and they'll last 10+ years.
MOTU is still a good choice.
I used a 896HD for the better part of a decade. Also used an 8-Pre quite a bit...
Both were rock-solid... and sound was pretty good (slight notch down from the Fireface 800).
Lots of folks slag the onboard preamps... but I've captured some pretty good sounding acoustic drum tracks using them.
Lynx is another solid choice.
The Lynx units can be a little more finicky than RME.
ie: Their older PCI cards don't cope well in bridged PCI slots.
On the lower cost side, I like the new UR-44 from Steinberg... as well as the newer Presonus VSL series.
My recent experience:
Having used the 896HD for many years, it was time I upgraded the audio interface for my main studio DAW.
I was very close to getting the RME Fireface UFX... but I wanted to checkout some new digital mixers.
Our live sound guy was using a Behringer X32 digital console... so I decided to research its use as an audio interface and studio mixer.
The X32 comes with a built-in audio interface (either Firewire or USB)... but there was no solid information about its round-trip latency and the performance of the drivers. Behringer certainly aren't known for producing top-notch USB or Firewire audio interface drivers (that yield glitch-free audio under substantial loads)... but the unit has an AES-50 port that streams 32 channels of I/O via a single CAT5e cable.
I was hoping the onboard audio interface offered round-trip latency in the 5-6ms range (which is what I'm comfortable with via the 896HD). Worst case scenario, I'd grab a Lynx AES-16e-50 audio interface (AES-16e with an AES-50 port). After extensive testing, the X32's onboard audio interface essentially "requires" round-trip latency ~10ms to be 100% reliable (glitch-free). The unit's driver was extremely flexible in that you could tweak both the ASIO buffer size and the "safety buffer". I could set the round-trip latency much lower than 10ms... but there were dropped samples (especially when looping) when running heavy loads. I didn't want to take a step backward in regards to round-trip latency... so I opted to get the AES-16e-50.
Note that the Lynx AES-16e-50 is currently the only audio interface with an AES-50 port. I had used the AES-16e before (as well as numerous clients), so I was confident it would work. Got the unit installed and can run heavy loads (glitch-free) at the 32-sample ASIO buffer size (with double safety buffer enabled). That's round-trip latency of 2.3ms. Add the end-to-end latency of the X32 (0.8ms) and you have a total round-trip latency of 3.1ms (at 44.1k). That's awesome performance.
I measured the average noise-floor at -114dB... which bests most audio interfaces.
That's just a smidge higher than the UFX which is ~-117dB.
While certainly not an inexpensive solution, the combination X32 and Lynx AES-16e-50 is extremely powerful and flexible. Downside: The unit is currently limited to 44.1k/48k.
I'm ok with that limitation...
When we do production for local and national radio spots, we're sending 44.1k wav files.
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: Best new audio interface for Sonar X3 (with effects DSP for real time monitoring)
2014/03/27 12:40:21
(permalink)
I haven't run very heavy loads yet but the music school I work at has an X32 and it has been trouble free at like 3ms latency (according to the settings menu). What sort of things caused you problems specifically?
|