Helpful ReplyBest practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs

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moffdnb
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2013/01/21 09:08:18 (permalink)

Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs

Hi all,

Ok, we are all aware by now that its best to use the C: Drive for Audio programs only and that your Sonar audio files/Samples etc should be kept on a separate drive completely which I've always had.

Though there are a couple of other things I''d love to hear your thoughts on:

Where best to place your Softsynth Library files.  Some can be huge these days and with partitions, I would like to have these on a dedicated partition on my new drive.
Also my SAMPLES.  I do use some big wave samples and have always had these also on there own partition.  So knowing that the 1st partition of each drive will give the best performance and the further out the files are on the drive the more access time may be needed.  Maybe not an issue but just trying to setup in the best way when deciding whether or not to use so may partitions and what you feel is the best practice here.

My SATA HDDs setup as it stands:

DRIVE1
Parition1 C: O.S and all Music apps/Programs (Nothing else)
Parition2 D: Softsynth Libraries (Kontakts, Rompler data files etc)


DRIVE2
Parition1 E: SONAR Audio data (various per project folders)
Parition2 F: Samples (waves for use within Softsampler)


Much thanks for your thoughts...

#1
DeeringAmps
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 09:55:46 (permalink)
Three drives minimum, no partitions on any.
C: OS, Sonar, all synths (no content, just the dlls any "program" files) and VST.
D: All the project files (which of course contain the audio files)
E: All sample files for the synths on the "C" drive.
Fourth drive (optional);
F: I call this "Studio"; data, finished mixes, Sonar's waveform picture files.
I like to keep the pic files on a separate drive as these are being "drawn" while
Sonar is "working".
If you have "streaming" synths, I would keep them on a separate drive from the "static" libraries.

Tom
 

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#2
moffdnb
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 10:27:53 (permalink)
Do you think Partitioning other drives can have a "substantial" impact on audio performance?

> Considering that my essential (Disk1) C: PROGRAMS and (Disk2) D: SONAR AUDIO is in place?.



My Casing only has room for 2 DRIVES
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Karyn
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 10:38:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby djoni 2014/01/22 15:42:42
Do not use partitions.
In a physical HDD all the R/W heads (however many) are physically linked so it can only read/write to a single partition at any one time.

Do not link multiple HDDs in striped sets.
All the R/W heads across all linked HDDs become virtually linked and act as one, thus you loose the ability to read from more than on file at once.


Best option,  use as many cheap, large HDDs as you can fit in your machine and spread your files across them all.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 10:44:48 (permalink)
moffdnb


Do you think Partitioning other drives can have a "substantial" impact on audio performance?

> Considering that my essential (Disk1) C: PROGRAMS and (Disk2) D: SONAR AUDIO is in place?.



My Casing only has room for 2 DRIVES


You MIGHT be able to stream any sample libraries via a fast external USB drive

Fast is the key word here - 7,200RPM is recommended, and don't get any sort of "Green" drive

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#5
moffdnb
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 11:12:55 (permalink)
Does it make any difference if I assign a different drive letter to my SONAR audio Drive?

i.e. Do I need to give it a D: assignment rather then E: (which it is now) considering it is still the 1st partition on its own HDD (for access speed)
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DeeringAmps
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 12:47:16 (permalink)
Mine is the "A" drive.
IIRC XP would not let an HDD be the "A" drive.
Win 7 doesn't care.

T

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Swiller
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 14:00:10 (permalink)
With an ssd and a traditional hd in the pc.. Id say you are better off taking full advantage of the ssd speed advantage and having all work in progress on the ssd including audio. For me.. OS, X2, vstis, drivers, fx, current audio, slimmed down sample library and current projects = one unpartitioned 248gb ssd drive named C:. Old audio data and archived projects, big/complete sample library and back up of ssd drive = one sata3 2tb 7200rpm hd named e:. I never got the thing with partitions apart from just acting like an additional folder on a hard disk. Just complicating things really. Its the same physical drive and the risks seem to cancel out the benefits one to one. Cant recommend ssds enough.

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Guitarhacker
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 19:02:00 (permalink)
The bigger the better, and no partitioning. As many as you want to use. 

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#9
DeeringAmps
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 19:30:43 (permalink)
SSD for audio?
I thought constant write/rewrite was an issue for an SSD?
Great for your sample libraries, fast load etc.
Am I way off here?

T

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Danny Danzi
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/21 21:40:47 (permalink)
I got a question I've always been curious about. I'm aware of all the things shared here so far, but how about those that may leave a pc running all the time. Do you set it for low power when you won't be there for a few hours and allow it to turn your hard drives down to low power? If so, is the strain on them from them turning off and on in low power mode worse than shutting the pc down completely? I've always been curious about this. Thanks in advance.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 04:45:43 (permalink)
I honestly don't know what the answer is to that one Danny.

I've heard that powering up/down is as stressful as leaving them on, but is there any proof of this?

For me, the real downside to leaving things powered on permanently is the electricity bill!

One thing we all should be aware of is that EVERY drive on your system will at some point in the future, fail. So we should all be extremely OCD about backing up - certainly your projects should be copied regularly, and you should also re-image your system drive whenever a known change has been made - this includes after installing plugins.



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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 05:57:13 (permalink)
DeeringAmps


SSD for audio?
I thought constant write/rewrite was an issue for an SSD?
Great for your sample libraries, fast load etc.
Am I way off here?

T

AFAIK they're OK if you use intelligent SSD's which do not write/overwrite at the same spot all the time, but use variably the whole available capacity of the disc. Also, AFAIK, the writing speed of SSD's isn't actually better than that of HDDs, so the advantages in plain recording are questionable (???).
 
About the never-ending debate concerning switch it off/leave it running, my 2 cents is:
The two times that I've lost a HD, it was due to failing bearings, which in my understanding relates directly to usage hours. Theoretically the discs are built for xxx-number of running hours, not xxx-number of switch-ons. Even though switching on is, so I've heard, the critical moment for the parts that are about to break, I believe the total running hours are more critical. My policy is switching off for the night.
If I work two hours in the morning, and I know I'll be back in the evening, I switch off.
If I'm about to use my DAW now and then during the day, I keep it running. I have all sleep mode settings and such disabled, as I've had only bad experiences with them.
 
I doubt there is any reliable tests about this, at least I've never heard of any.

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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 06:15:39 (permalink)
The new DAW I have on order will have.

Disk 1 (conventional 1TB drive with 60gb SSD cache drive) System & Programs
Disk 2 (conventional 2TB drive) Projects and Audio
Disk 3 (conventional 2TB drive) Samples
Disk 4 256 GB SSD drive. Copies of large third party Kontakt sample libraries that get heavy use and have long load times. e.g. Orange Tree Samples' Steel string and Strawberry.


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metz
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 06:17:18 (permalink)
Hey!

This is my opinion. I've been using SSD's for audio for 3-4 years. The oldest one has been used a LOT and it still shows 99% health. I would say that the talk about SSD's being worse than regular drives is bullcrap.

But as I've said before. Go for Intel ones. Their failure rate is SO much lower than any other brands that they easily is worth the extra money.

And dont stare yourselves blind on the performance numbers. I hardly notice any difference between my slowest drives and my fastest. But the difference between SSD and regular drives is massive. If you haven't your OS on SSD's yet then go for it. It's like getting a new computer and the best upgrade I've ever done to any computer.

/M
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moffdnb
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 06:43:23 (permalink)
Question back to original post:

Should I make my SONAR audio drive (dedicated and non partitioned) D: or does it matter if it was E: or further down the letters chain?

My point being that if all drives (no matter amount used with no partitioning) are dedicated to their files, OS Apps, Sonar Audio, Streaming softsynths etc... does it matter what order there in?
#16
Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 06:50:05 (permalink)
metz


Hey!

This is my opinion. I've been using SSD's for audio for 3-4 years. The oldest one has been used a LOT and it still shows 99% health. I would say that the talk about SSD's being worse than regular drives is bullcrap.

But as I've said before. Go for Intel ones. Their failure rate is SO much lower than any other brands that they easily is worth the extra money.

And dont stare yourselves blind on the performance numbers. I hardly notice any difference between my slowest drives and my fastest. But the difference between SSD and regular drives is massive. If you haven't your OS on SSD's yet then go for it. It's like getting a new computer and the best upgrade I've ever done to any computer.

/M
How big and how many  SSDs do you have, then? In audio the minimum size usually desired by users is more like 1 Tb than 500 Gb.
Good quality SSDs of 500 Gb are still very expensive, not to mention 1 Tb, and I'm sure that's a key factor to many. 500-1000 dollars
for a single unit of storage medium is so much that I don't believe you get any bang for the buck, if you compare the pros and cons. 
 
And even though you have good experiences, I do believe the SSDs are just reaching adulthood. I've read so many posts by people who have bought, for example, three SSDs, one of which lasted only for days and similar. Especially the economy models of the cheapest (?) brand, OCZ seem to be very unreliable, if you trust the user forums.
 
To moffdnb: It doesn't matter what letters you use for additional discs, as long as the system drive is C.

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#17
Karyn
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 06:51:44 (permalink)
My point being that if all drives (no matter amount used with no partitioning) are dedicated to their files, OS Apps, Sonar Audio, Streaming softsynths etc... does it matter what order there in?

 
You can call the drives anything you like.

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moffdnb
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 06:53:49 (permalink)
Cool.  Good to know that  ;>
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metz
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 07:36:25 (permalink)

I have 4 SSD's at the moment. But I have around 10 if counting various laptops etc... bout disksize. Of course SSD's are more expansive when it comes to large drives. I'd say  that I have saved that extra money in time many times around though.

I use 120Gb and 250Gb drives. I dont see the drives as long time storage. For that I have a larger 2TB regular drive. When I've finished projects I dont need to work on I move them to the larger drive.

Wait until you think the technique is ready. But I'd say it's unnecessary.

/M


Kalle Rantaaho


metz


Hey!

This is my opinion. I've been using SSD's for audio for 3-4 years. The oldest one has been used a LOT and it still shows 99% health. I would say that the talk about SSD's being worse than regular drives is bullcrap.

But as I've said before. Go for Intel ones. Their failure rate is SO much lower than any other brands that they easily is worth the extra money.

And dont stare yourselves blind on the performance numbers. I hardly notice any difference between my slowest drives and my fastest. But the difference between SSD and regular drives is massive. If you haven't your OS on SSD's yet then go for it. It's like getting a new computer and the best upgrade I've ever done to any computer.

/M
How big and how many  SSDs do you have, then? In audio the minimum size usually desired by users is more like 1 Tb than 500 Gb.
Good quality SSDs of 500 Gb are still very expensive, not to mention 1 Tb, and I'm sure that's a key factor to many. 500-1000 dollars
for a single unit of storage medium is so much that I don't believe you get any bang for the buck, if you compare the pros and cons. 
 
And even though you have good experiences, I do believe the SSDs are just reaching adulthood. I've read so many posts by people who have bought, for example, three SSDs, one of which lasted only for days and similar. Especially the economy models of the cheapest (?) brand, OCZ seem to be very unreliable, if you trust the user forums.
 
To moffdnb: It doesn't matter what letters you use for additional discs, as long as the system drive is C.


#20
DigitalBoston
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 07:58:41 (permalink)
wow i always used my dds As c drive but this thread states that i should use in for my D drive where all the projects and SVT are since there workin harded
is this a fact cus it makes sence. i have 2 SSD and a 2 tB to work with
so 1 ssd AS-C
     1 ssd AS-D with all the workfiles
 or the 2 tB drive as C. im confused whats best now
common sence would say use a SSD as your C drive for the base program and synths. ?
#21
Danny Danzi
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 08:01:24 (permalink)
Jonesey/Kalle: Thanks for the info. I always turn mine off as well and leave my power options set to "performance". There are times though, when I leave for a few hours and was curious if it were a good idea to turn the drives off just so the computer isn't sitting idle yet being wide open. Thanks again...sorry for the hi-jack.

-Danny

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#22
metz
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 08:17:00 (permalink)
You should definitively have one SSD for the c: drive where you have the OS.
But use the other SSD for projects and the 2TB for finished projects.

/M
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garrigus
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/22 09:29:40 (permalink)
Danny Danzi

Jonesey/Kalle: Thanks for the info. I always turn mine off as well and leave my power options set to "performance". There are times though, when I leave for a few hours and was curious if it were a good idea to turn the drives off just so the computer isn't sitting idle yet being wide open. Thanks again...sorry for the hi-jack.

-Danny
Hey Danny,


I don't know this via any kind of scientific research but I don't think it matters. I allow my drives to automatically power down if the system sits idle too long. No problems. I think I have the power setting at about 30 mins, so if there's no activity after 30 minutes the drives power down, but the system itself stays on. I don't like to use the sleep or hibernate options of Windows. I've sometimes had problems after "waking up" the system, but no problems with the drives.


Scott

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#24
moffdnb
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/23 18:56:45 (permalink)
One last question on this...


I my current setup I'm down to a choice to make for my Softsynth Library files. Which would be the better option?.

1:  Put them on a dedicated, non-partitioned 80GB HDD at 5200rpm

2:  Put it on the 2nd Partition of a 1TB 7200rpm drive (1st partition reserved for Sonar Audio)


and would the difference be significant?
#25
robert_e_bone
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/23 20:39:26 (permalink)
moffdnb


One last question on this...


I my current setup I'm down to a choice to make for my Softsynth Library files. Which would be the better option?.

1:  Put them on a dedicated, non-partitioned 80GB HDD at 5200rpm

2:  Put it on the 2nd Partition of a 1TB 7200rpm drive (1st partition reserved for Sonar Audio)


and would the difference be significant?
Several folks have posted what I am about to say - there is no realistic performance point whatsoever in creating logical partitions.

All of the SATA 3 drives are plenty fast - 7,200 rpm is a better spin rate and more desirable than 5,200.

An SSD is much faster than a non-SSD SATA 3, but either has plenty of horsepower to avoid bottlenecks in Sonar.

If I ever see a need for it, I will add a third internal drive.  Right now, I use 2 - both are internal SATA 3 3.5" non-ssd drives.  I split them by OS and programs on the primary drive, and samples and projects on the 2nd drive.  

That works great - I never have any data issues or performance issues, and with the money I saved on returning a 512 GB SSD drive that crapped out in the first 3 months I owned it, I was able to buy another 16 GB of memory, a 46" HDTV, and 3 new pairs of Nike basketball shoes from the outlet store.


But back to my original point - you are better off buying a bigger case if you need it, and adding one or 2 additional SATA 3 drives - SSD or not, than you are by partitioning yourself silly.


Bob Bone







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#26
Karyn
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/24 07:15:53 (permalink)
The ability to partition a HDD is a throwback to the old days when the average OS could only support "small" drives.

About the only use today is to have multiple operating systems on one HDD.

Partitioning a modern HDD for audio data is pointless and will reduce performance.

Mekashi Futo
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Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#27
Paul P
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/24 12:04:38 (permalink)
I disagree. Partitions offer an extra level of organisation, why not use it ?

I use multiple hard disks and partitions (which just look like disks). Makes things easy to backup (for example, just copy a data partition) and when you have to restore a broken OS you can reformat and clean install just the C: drive, nothing else needs to be touched.

I move all the "My ..." folders and Mozilla's profiles, Outlook's mailbox, etc, to another partition/disk.
#28
ed97643
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/24 15:08:14 (permalink)
Paul, just using top level folders will get you the same convenience backup-wise.  You could oganize it like:
C:\Windows stuff
C:\Sonar Stuff
C:\Outlook Stuff
etc.  Just a thought. Wouldn't help with reformats, I will concede.

Registered Cakewalk user since 1995
#29
Glyn Barnes
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Re:Best practice for setting up your AUDIO HDDs 2013/01/24 15:23:12 (permalink)
Paul P


I disagree. Partitions offer an extra level of organisation, why not use it ?

I use multiple hard disks and partitions (which just look like disks). Makes things easy to backup (for example, just copy a data partition) and when you have to restore a broken OS you can reformat and clean install just the C: drive, nothing else needs to be touched.

I move all the "My ..." folders and Mozilla's profiles, Outlook's mailbox, etc, to another partition/disk.
For a computer with a single drive running office type applications, where file access times and read white speed is not so important I agree. But for a DAW no. Best to have three unpartitioned drives, one for the OS and programs, one for Audio and one (or even two) for samples. This is the way  to go if you want preformance.
 

Intel i7 3770K @4.4GHz, 32GB RAM, 240GB SSD System disk, 2 x 2TB and 1 x 1TB (with SSD Cache) HDD. Windows 10,  Sonar Platinum. Roland Quad Capture. 
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#30
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