ekim
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Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
Hi! Yesterday I started working with Sonar Platinum after 6 years of using Logic Pro 9. So coming from another DAW it's normal to look for workflows I was used to in LP9. So far I found everything I needed except for a good way of handling Midi clips. For example I record a short drum loop with Addictive Drums via Midi keyboard. When stopping the record, I shorten the clip by grabbing the end of the clip, so it has the desired length. ( Step 1) It snaps to the grid. Now I don't want to copy and paste the clip because it takes a long time to fill the song with it. I found the Loop function which changes the appearance of the clip (the corners get cut) but when I expand the clip by dragging it always adds the part of the clip that I (thought I) removed in Step 1 so it's not in sync anymore. Is there any easy way to destructively shorten the clip without changing the clips properties or using the step sequencer and change the number of beats there? Something like "trim to 4 beats" or "remove everything behind the last note".I hope my English isn't too bad and you get my problem. :) Thanks in advanceMike
post edited by ekim - 2016/01/28 05:25:13
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Kylotan
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 05:25:25
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☄ Helpfulby ekim 2016/01/28 05:30:11
Try 'Bounce to clip' and or 'Apply trimming' after Step 1, before you set it as a loop.
(Personally I don't bother making MIDI clips into loops because Sonar doesn't reflect changes made in one instance of the loop in other instances - but maybe that doesn't bother you. Just be aware of it!)
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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ekim
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 05:29:21
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Kylotan
(Personally I don't bother making MIDI clips into loops because Sonar doesn't reflect changes made in one instance of the loop in other instances - but maybe that doesn't bother you. Just be aware of it!)
Oh ok. That's a bummer. Well maybe I should record the clips and add them to my midi clip collection and drag and drop them as I need them then. But for drafting purposes, rendering them to an audio clip should be sufficient. "Apply trimming" probably removes all space before the first and after the last note?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 05:40:26
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Kylotan
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 05:47:36
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☼ Best Answerby ekim 2016/01/28 05:50:34
If you want changes in one MIDI clip reflected in copies of it, you need them to be 'linked' copies. I think ctrl-click-dragging creates linked copies, if I remember correctly. That's what I do with all my loops, since Groove Clips work unintuitively for this.
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ekim
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 05:50:19
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Kylotan
If you want changes in one MIDI clip reflected in copies of it, you need them to be 'linked' copies. I think ctrl-click-dragging creates linked copies, if I remember correctly. That's what I do with all my loops, since Groove Clips work unintuitively for this.
CTRL+Clicking where? On the clip and moving it or one end of the clip and dragging? That would be the perfect solution. :)
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Kylotan
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 06:12:26
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Ctrl-click on the middle of clip and drag it to create a new copy that is linked to the first.
If I need a lot of copies (eg. a loop that extends for the length of the song), I'll drag one copy to make 2, then select both and drag-copy to make 4, then 8, etc. Not as convenient as stretching out a Groove Clip by dragging the end, but I need my loops to be consistent.
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tenfoot
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 07:22:17
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You may be looking for groove clip looping? Just trim the midi clip to the length you want (I suggest setting snap to gird to bar langth), right click on the clip and choose 'groove clip looping'. Now when you grab and extend the right side of the clip the groove will repeat.
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Kylotan
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 07:37:05
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Yeah, he was aware of the ability to change a clip to a loop and I covered the trimming in my first reply. The issue is that if you expect each repeat of the loop to stay in sync when you edit one of them, Groove Clips won't do that.
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tenfoot
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 09:18:24
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Kylotan
Yeah, he was aware of the ability to change a clip to a loop and I covered the trimming in my first reply. The issue is that if you expect each repeat of the loop to stay in sync when you edit one of them, Groove Clips won't do that.
I am not so sure - re-read the first post. OP states the problem is when he extends the clip it restores the sections he wanted deleted rather then repeating the loop. That doesn't happen when you activate groove clip looping correctly - that is its purpose. The problem you are solving was not the OP's original query. I think it may have been introduced in your post. Could be wrong of course:)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 09:29:36
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To turn a clip into a Groove Clip, you can use ctrl + L
Make sure the clip starts exactly at the start of a measure (e.g. 02:01:000) and has a length of EXACTLY 1 (or more) measures. now you can ctrl + L it and drag it out for as many measures as you want.
As was said above, having Snap to Grid set to 1 measure helps a lot in trimming clips to length.
You shouldn't need to bounce to clip or apply trimming because as soon as you invoke the Groove CLip, Sonar will flag up a warning about "Discarding Data" which you can say Ok to.
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Kylotan
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 10:12:21
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tenfoot
Kylotan
Yeah, he was aware of the ability to change a clip to a loop and I covered the trimming in my first reply. The issue is that if you expect each repeat of the loop to stay in sync when you edit one of them, Groove Clips won't do that.
I am not so sure - re-read the first post. OP states the problem is when he extends the clip it restores the sections he wanted deleted rather then repeating the loop. That doesn't happen when you activate groove clip looping correctly - that is its purpose.
The problem you are solving was not the OP's original query. I think it may have been introduced in your post. Could be wrong of course:)
Okay, I opened up Sonar and checked, and it seems that the original poster is perhaps doing something wrong, because it looks like Sonar prompts to discard that extra data when you convert it to a loop. He said "I found the Loop function which changes the appearance of the clip (the corners get cut)" which implies he's correctly made it into a Groove Clip, but he's obviously not getting the warning that we get or having that extra data discarded. So I was responding to the original query and trusting what was said, but something is obviously wrong somewhere.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 10:16:04
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tenfoot
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 10:21:54
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Plenty of instructions there now Mike! Pretty certain once you get groove clip looping happening with any of the methods above it will be what you are looking for. Let us know if you have any issues.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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brundlefly
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Re: Best practice handling/looping Midi clips
2016/01/28 12:54:32
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Open the Groove Clip section of the Clip tab in the Track Inspector with the clip selected after converting to Groove Clip, and check/adjust the Beats in Clip value.
SONAR often guesses wrong when the clip doesn't end exactly on a bar line and/or the time signature is not 4/4.
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