gmp
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Best way to change the tempo of a mix using Elastique or Radius
I have a mix I want to change the tempo. I want to just raise the tempo using the Transport Module. I can do it using AudioSnap, and check Follow Proj Tempo, but I get all those vertical lines that in this situation I'd rather not see. After I change the tempo, I can choose Bounce to clip and those lines go away. But I'm wondering if AudioSnap is the wrong tool to use in my situation. I guess it'd be nice to right click the clip and be able to choose Follow Proj Tempo. I like the idea in AudioSnap to be able to choose the offline render - Elastique or the multiple Radius choices.
post edited by gmp - 2018/10/14 03:21:07
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/14 00:28:42
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The thread title says change pitch, but the post says change tempo, so I'm not sure if you want to do one or the other, or both. However, the best way to change pitch and tempo simultaneously (like tape vari-speed) is to use the loop construction view...and there aren't any artifacts. If that's what you want, I'll explain further.
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gmp
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/14 03:25:50
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Anderton
The thread title says change pitch, but the post says change tempo, so I'm not sure if you want to do one or the other, or both. However, the best way to change pitch and tempo simultaneously (like tape vari-speed) is to use the loop construction view...and there aren't any artifacts. If that's what you want, I'll explain further.
Oops, thanks for correcting me, Craig. It should have said tempo. I fixed it. Transpose works really well for pitch. In fact I wish it was that straightforward for tempo. I've never used loop construction, so this will be very good for you to explain that one - thanks.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/14 17:06:37
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Sorry, but the loop construction technique changes both pitch and tempo simultaneously, like tape - you can't do one without the other.
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marled
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/14 20:40:29
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This is a thing that I am very interested in! How can I change the length of an audio clip in CbB with corresponding pitch change (like running a tape with a faster/slower speed). Is there such a possiblity?
Or is there a way to change the pitch with corresponding clip stretching (the other way around)?
Thanks for tips in advance
Marc
... many years before ...
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 02:12:13
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Here's an excerpt from my book, The Huge Book of Cakewalk by BandLab Tips. This is about how to do fine-tuning in cents using the Loop Construction View, but you can use semitones for bigger shifts: 1. Open the audio that needs to be fixed in the Loop Construction View, but don’t turn it into a Groove Clip. In other words, don’t type Ctrl+L—instead, just select the audio and choose Views > Loop Construction.2. From the Clip drop-down menu, check Stretch On/Off. 3. Move the Threshold slider to 0 so there are no transient markers.4. In the pitch window furthest to the right, enter the change in cents. For example, if you want the audio to be 10 cents flatter, enter -10 then hit Enter. (Note that the cents field is limited to +50 and -49 cents; if you want to do, for example, -75 cents, you’d need to do -1 semitone then +25 cents.)5. Click on the clip in Track View and then select Bounce to Clip. The clip will now be fine-tuned. However, there are a couple of fine points. This process changes pitch, but does not preserve length—in other words, it works just like speeding up or slowing down a tape recorder. For small pitch changes, this likely won’t make any difference. If it does, you can always use conventional, DSP-based time-stretching to fit the clip to its original duration. A more significant point is that if you lower the clip pitch, the clip will become longer than what the clip currently defines. So, when you bounce to clip, the clip will cut off at the end of what used to be the loop length. The solution is to extend the clip duration prior to doing the pitch transposition. Conversely, if you raise the clip pitch, the clip will become shorter so you may need to trim the end to regain the correct duration. I hope this helps! (Shameless plug: the book is currently on sale as a PDF for $19.95.)
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mettelus
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 03:42:48
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Easiest method for me has been: - Save project with new name (so the original is always recoverable).
- Ctrl-A to select everything in the project.
- Process->Length (main menu).
- Make sure all three boxes are checked.
- For "By:" select the percentage appropriate (longer is slower, shorter is faster). E.g., 100bpm -> 90bpm would need to be longer by 100/90, or 111%.
- Under "Stretch Audio" select "Radius Mix-Advanced" from the drop down menu.
- Select "OK," wait for it to process, check results.
- The project tempo map will need to be adjusted when finished, which I do using "Set Measure/Beat at Now" (Shift-M)... anchor the start of the project to what the original was, and then another transient near the end also to the original project. The tempo should now read close (I just did this and got a project tempo of 90.03).
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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gmp
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 03:54:06
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mettelus
Easiest method for me has been:
- Save project with new name (so the original is always recoverable).
- Ctrl-A to select everything in the project.
- Process->Length (main menu).
- Make sure all three boxes are checked.
- For "By:" select the percentage appropriate (longer is slower, shorter is faster). E.g., 100bpm -> 90bpm would need to be longer by 100/90, or 111%.
- Under "Stretch Audio" select "Radius Mix-Advanced" from the drop down menu.
- Select "OK," wait for it to process, check results.
- The project tempo map will need to be adjusted when finished, which I do using "Set Measure/Beat at Now" (Shift-M)... anchor the start of the project to what the original was, and then another transient near the end also to the original project. The tempo should now read close (I just did this and got a project tempo of 90.03).
this looks good, yet if I need something more exact like going to tempo of 90 instead of 90.03, I'll use the AudioSnap method
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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mettelus
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 13:09:55
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The "error" in that comes from only being able to input whole numbers into the "stretch by" field. It will not take 111.111%, so the actual calculation comes to 100 bpm/1.11 (111%) or 90.09 bpm.
There are a lot of remnants inside the SONAR/CbB that come from the 90s when computing power couldn't handle massive precision. Many areas still limit the user to whole numbers only (transpose, etc.). There is really no reason why cents (or even decimals of cents) cannot be used when transposing... the "semi-tone" was there 20+ years ago.
In fact, that simple algorithm could be overhauled to allow the user to highlight a section, choose "target bpm" and then SONAR/CbB could insert all tempo changes (update the tempo map), with 100% precision.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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gmp
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 16:42:43
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mettelus
The "error" in that comes from only being able to input whole numbers into the "stretch by" field. It will not take 111.111%, so the actual calculation comes to 100 bpm/1.11 (111%) or 90.09 bpm.
There are a lot of remnants inside the SONAR/CbB that come from the 90s when computing power couldn't handle massive precision. Many areas still limit the user to whole numbers only (transpose, etc.). There is really no reason why cents (or even decimals of cents) cannot be used when transposing... the "semi-tone" was there 20+ years ago.
In fact, that simple algorithm could be overhauled to allow the user to highlight a section, choose "target bpm" and then SONAR/CbB could insert all tempo changes (update the tempo map), with 100% precision.
You are spot on with all of your analysis and I also hope they give us a target BPM in that window. In fact this is exactly how easy it is to change the pitch of a mix using Transpose. With the introduction of Elastique this would be a good time to add this feature. For now it seems AudioSnap is the best approach
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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Blogospherianman
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 18:21:37
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I personally use Audio Snap for this with the Radius Mix Offline algorithm. It's really easy to Cntrl A to select all tracks, Open Audio Snap View from the Views tab, Select Clip Follows Project (stretch), then simply Type in your new tempo and preview then offline bounce. You don't have to realign the tempo map with this method.Before doing this I typically bounce all clips to start at zero. It's not necessary, but works fool proof if you do.
If your project contains multiple tempo changes and you want preserve all the ups and downs. Cntrl A to select all tracks, Open Audio Snap View, Select clip follows project, then from the Process tab choose Fit to time, Modify by changing Tempo map (I don't choose Stretch audio there cause I want to preview first then bounce down). For faster tempos choose an earlier Thru time, for slower choose a longer thru time.
To change the tempo of a section, Highlight a section in the Tempo view, hit delete and then insert a new tempo of your choice at the beginning bar. The whole section you deleted will now be what you want your new tempo to be.
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chris.r
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 22:09:16
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What I do sometimes is crop the audio clip exactly at measure points and place it at the beginning of timeline, change to the new tempo then ctrl+drag the end of clip to the new measure point. Then bounce for offline radius advanced algo.
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 22:34:51
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chris.r
What I do sometimes is crop the audio clip exactly at measure points and place it at the beginning of timeline, change to the new tempo then ctrl+drag the end of clip to the new measure point. Then bounce for offline radius advanced algo.
That's often what I do as well, but using elastique pro for the offline bounce.
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chris.r
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/15 22:40:43
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Anderton
chris.r
What I do sometimes is crop the audio clip exactly at measure points and place it at the beginning of timeline, change to the new tempo then ctrl+drag the end of clip to the new measure point. Then bounce for offline radius advanced algo.
That's often what I do as well, but using elastique pro for the offline bounce.
32-bit CPU only here so no Bandlab for me yet :D otherwise I'm very curious what difference would be in quality between both algos...
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to change the pitch of a mix using Elastique or Radius
2018/10/16 03:16:39
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The biggest difference is between the real-time versions, less so the offline rendering ones. However, it does seem the elastique version is faster.
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