vaultwit
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Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another take?
What is the best way to create a vocal double using the same single original vocal take, without actually recording the take again? Using a chorus effect maybe? Manipulating a second instance of the same take some other way? How do you do it?
I want to create a subtle double during the chorus of my song using the same take as the original, and was wondering what your ideas are.
Thanks!
P.S. Please do not tell me to just record another take. I know that is the best way. But for my purposes, I want to know how to use the same take to achieve this.
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Guitarpima
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/20 22:39:19
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Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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bitflipper
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/20 23:16:41
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If you have a delay that features random modulation, use that on the clone with a short delay (5-10ms) and 100% effect. Detune the clone sharp by 5-7%, then make a second clone and detune it flat by the same amount.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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noynekker
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/20 23:55:18
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Very nifty trick bitfipper !
I'm off to give it a try, thanks for that.
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Rasure
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 00:44:58
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Anderton
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 04:03:59
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V-Vocal with very slight formant change, then delay or advance one vocal somewhere between 15-30ms.
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jb101
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 05:05:41
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X1 producer has the VX64 vocal channel that has a doubler. Plug ins include A.D.T. (by Olaf Matthes), which I think is free, and Martin Eastwood Audio Duo, which may be free, I can't remember. These two plugs let you vary lots of parameters, and are quite effective. I used to use A.D.T. a lot, but then started using Duo (or is it Duet? I'm not at my DAW.)
post edited by jb101 - 2012/08/21 05:26:11
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rjeynes
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 06:12:00
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Sound on Sound has a good article on Vocal Production which includes a number of ways using subtle time shift, pitch shifting etc. for fake double tracking. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb12/articles/vocal-production.htm You can use V-Vocal, too: apply it to a clone of the original and combine modified and un-modified versions; Subtlety seemes to be the key word.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 06:35:05
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Dave Pensado (very well known mixer, if you aren't aware) did a video on how he achieves this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyHKZtCbbks I personally avoid doing this at all costs and go with a second tracked vocal, but if that ain't an option - the above could help.
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JazzSinger
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 12:47:48
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You surely will find the same phrase sung in a different place of the same take. The chorus, for example.
Find them and use those.
Doubling a whole song gets boring, so let serendipidy dictate which bits get doubled.
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Rain
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 13:15:15
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TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 13:45:40
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+1
X1 producer has the VX64 vocal channel that has a doubler
Producer Exp x1d Win XP, intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.4 GHz, 2 GHz RAM Nvidia gforce 8500 GT BR800 controller , DR880 drum machine. GR20 guitar synth, Alesis QX25 KRK 6 + 10" sub. Sennheiser HD280pro cans 2 Yamaki acoustics, Korean Strat, 60's Jazzmaster, 60's BF Deluxe Reverb,
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A1MixMan
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 15:04:09
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Use 2 different types of mics and record both at the same time. Then use pannning, effects and/or nudge forward or backward as desired.
Or you can record another take. :-)
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soundsubs
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 15:09:38
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i have done this by stretching it to maximum (400%), rendering, then unstretching it back to 25% and rendering.
Sonar Platinum | modular synthesizers galoreWin 10 // Dell Xeon's | RME UFX | Maschine 2.3 | Virus TI | Roland System-1
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konradh
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 18:59:50
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VX64 doubler is good for just adding a little extra to a chorus or something like that, but it does not sound like 2-3 people singing. It just sounds like a stereo delay.
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dubdisciple
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/21 19:46:24
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+1 to what konrad said. I use VX64 at times for voice overs when i need very subtle (and I stress the subtle) thickening. Anything more than a touch and it sounds like crap. Not sure how it would work for singing.
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konradh
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/22 10:45:24
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Hint for those new to Sonar: If you do use the VX64 (or other effect) you can open it up, enable WRITE on the track, and then click the ON/OFF button on the doubler while the track is running so it will go on and off automatically at the right places in the song. Example: turn it on right before the chorus and off right after.
This works with other effects as well, of course. I am embarrassed to admit that I had X1 for a while before I realized that automation would control anything besides faders and pan. I learned the hard way by screwing around with the EQ while the track was running with WRITE enabled.
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jerrypettit
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/22 12:06:33
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Not exactly on point, but here's a new software I just read about (if you've got an extra thousand bucks or so lying around): http://www.synchroarts.com/
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daveny5
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/22 12:54:24
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Of course none of the automated doublers sound as good as old-fashioned double tracking like the Beatles did on their early albums.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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konradh
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/22 12:59:42
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Beatles sounded cool when they got it right. A few of them are sloppy for timing, starting way off from each other, etc.  Still a testament to how well they sang on key that you don't hear much pitch variance.
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Jason Gray
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/22 15:10:08
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vaultwit
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/23 00:38:35
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mattplaysguitar
Dave Pensado (very well known mixer, if you aren't aware) did a video on how he achieves this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyHKZtCbbks
I personally avoid doing this at all costs and go with a second tracked vocal, but if that ain't an option - the above could help.
Anyone know what type of plugin he's using to create the delays? It doesn't seem like a delay effect (i.e. echo delay), but rather literally delaying the original signal. Is there something in SONAR X1 that can do this? Also, is there a way to create the "random automation" that he uses with the delay plugin in SONAR X1?
Sonar X1 Producer Expanded 64-bit Computer: Intel Core i7-3770 3.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, Windows 8 Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
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daveny5
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Re:Best way to create real sounding vocal double... without actually recording another tak
2012/08/23 10:02:11
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konradh
Beatles sounded cool when they got it right. A few of them are sloppy for timing, starting way off from each other, etc. Still a testament to how well they sang on key that you don't hear much pitch variance.
True.... they wouldn't have gotten away with that now in this age of computerized perfection. 
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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