Serious_Noize!
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Best way to save Sonar projects?
I always save my Sonar/Cakewalk songs to the BUNDLE file format.
I asked this question about 6 years ago and was told using something else would be better.
I don't understand why? But I am assuming that when I asked that question the thing about .Bundle files might be that they can't be shared or something like that?
Bundle files have worked great for me thus far.
Am I doing it right? Or am I missing something?
I plan on continuing to use Sonar Platinum because for me it is AWESOME! THE BEST AND SECOND TO NONE!!!!!
I get why some people might want to save their master creations as something in different formats, and even perhaps something that is saved without the FX's added to those tracks.
What I am asking is, I save it all to a Cakewalk BUNDLE FILE. Is that the best way to save your works in progress when you plan to continue Sonar?
Dell XPS 8700, 16GB's Ram, Sonar Platinum.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/04 23:03:30
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I'm surprised it has worked for you. Bundle file are not intended to be used that way.
The NORMAL or CWP as in CakeWalk Project files are what everyone uses because they store your 100% of your project 100%. CWB only keep part of the data. Bundle files are an old format that I believe was from the days of smaller hard drives and strips away certain data. Sometimes this is a good thing for sending over the internet or for archiving. It can also be used to strip away unneeded data. So some might use it as a tool to clean up a project that had V Vocal and orphaned audio files. But I can't see that anyone would use it on a project that they didn't want to loose aspects that are needed. Have you not had issues with opening a project the next day and something was different?
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/05 19:18:40
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The other issue with bundle files is they're like zip files - if your storage medium loses just one bit (like a cell in a flash drive going bad), you lose the entire project. When you use a CWP file with an audio folder, if you lose a bit, then you'll probably still be able to use the project.
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mudgel
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/06 15:56:05
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Actually bundle files don’t strip away any data. They go back to a time when it was a feature to have a way of containing all of a Projects data within a single file just like an archive. There was no winzip. And archive programs were run from the command line.
-The disadvantages to bundles is that you can only share with another Sonar user.
-Bundles can’t contain certain data such as AudioSnap and (V-Vocal I think) data. I’m not sure about any of the ARA data such as Melodyne, Drum Replacer or Vocal Sync.
-If a bundle becomes corrupt you lose all your data. There is no recovery tool.
-There’s a lot of talk about bundle files being inherently unstable but I’ve never seen any data just anecdotal accounts making the claim.
-To the last demo project included with Sonar they all have been in the bundle format so clearly Cakewalk didn’t have an issue with them.
Recommended process.
I think most people now do as below.
-Save as per project Audio folder, (I think it became the Platinum default for new projects) and if you must archive use something like Winzip (it’s ubiquitous) and if you do get a corrupt archive, there are recovery options in the major archive programs which usually let you recover/Repair everything. Sometimes even the file that contains the corrupt data. Usually an audio file.
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57Gregy
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/06 16:26:40
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In the old days, it was recommended to archive projects in bundle format because it contained everything. I did that religiously, to CD or DVD, and never had any problems opening them in newer Cakewalk programs on different computers
Now I save to an external hard drive in project format, and on another computer. No need for unbundling to open.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/06 18:44:18
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mudgel
-There’s a lot of talk about bundle files being inherently unstable but I’ve never seen any data just anecdotal accounts making the claim.
I can only go by my experience; a few years ago I saved a lot of Sonar HS6XL projects as .BUN files and burned them to DVDs for back up. Last year I went through those DVDs, and only about half opened successfully.
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Anderton
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/06 21:26:33
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jamesg1213
I can only go by my experience; a few years ago I saved a lot of Sonar HS6XL projects as .BUN files and burned them to DVDs for back up. Last year I went through those DVDs, and only about half opened successfully.
I think that's probably about the DVDs, not the bundle files. The lifespan of a writeable DVD-ROM is highly variable depending on how it was manufactured, whether it used organic dyes, storage, etc. As I've mentioned before, currently the most robust form of optical storage is Blu-Ray media using inorganic dyes.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 05:36:15
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Ya a lot of people think Burned CD/DVD are the same as a pressed copy. No, A pressed copy if never scratched can last a long time. Burned CD/DVD are light sensitive, that's how they are made, with light.
Your ripping people off when you sell Burned CD's of your band for the same price as a Pressed CD.
I think because the fact that BUN files cannot have one tiny byte missing that putting them on a CD would obviously be a bad idea. CD's have error correction to fill in the bits that always will go missing. That's not going to work for data that is sensitive to having missing bytes.
All those threads that used to show up here crying the blues about not being able to open old bun files.. I guess those were all backed up to CD. It was common before the advent of USB sticks and cheap external drives.
Myself I've only used external drives going right back to IDE with power supplies. I never used CD's for storage because I was aware of the shortcomings. Somewhere on my studio bookshelf is a book from 1986 put out by Sony on how digital works including a big chapter on how CD players work..
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jamesg1213
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 07:44:42
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Anderton
jamesg1213
I can only go by my experience; a few years ago I saved a lot of Sonar HS6XL projects as .BUN files and burned them to DVDs for back up. Last year I went through those DVDs, and only about half opened successfully.
I think that's probably about the DVDs, not the bundle files. The lifespan of a writeable DVD-ROM is highly variable depending on how it was manufactured, whether it used organic dyes, storage, etc. As I've mentioned before, currently the most robust form of optical storage is Blu-Ray media using inorganic dyes.
Possibly, but there are several bundle files on each DVD, some will open, some won't. But no, I don't back up to disc anymore, for the reasons mentioned.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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burgerproduction
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 09:13:35
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I saved many projects from 2001-2003 in bundle format so as to keep all the parts in one file. I went back to one the other day and it didn't open. They were all saved to external HD, so not a CDR issue. I've stopped using the bundle format due to this possibility of losing an entire project. Disk space is cheap these days. Hell, each time I upgrade a laptop hd to ssd I'm left with a 500gb drive which I use for storage. If in doubt, save in both formats so you have a backup.
Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, Windows 10, HP Laptop, CPU i5, RAM 8GB. Audio interface: Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface with moded drivers. Microphones: Audio-Technica, M-Audio, Behringer, AKG. Pianos: Casio digital, Yamaha B1 upright. Guitars: Dobro, Tanglewood, Danelectro, Fender. Hats: Fez Check out my music : https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
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pwalpwal
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 12:05:55
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jamesg1213
Anderton
jamesg1213
I can only go by my experience; a few years ago I saved a lot of Sonar HS6XL projects as .BUN files and burned them to DVDs for back up. Last year I went through those DVDs, and only about half opened successfully.
I think that's probably about the DVDs, not the bundle files. The lifespan of a writeable DVD-ROM is highly variable depending on how it was manufactured, whether it used organic dyes, storage, etc. As I've mentioned before, currently the most robust form of optical storage is Blu-Ray media using inorganic dyes.
Possibly, but there are several bundle files on each DVD, some will open, some won't. But no, I don't back up to disc anymore, for the reasons mentioned.
you can test this by copying the BUNs off the DVD to HD before trying to open them - if the media is corrupt then windows will tell you
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pwalpwal
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 12:09:43
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mudgel
-Bundles can’t contain certain data such as AudioSnap and (V-Vocal I think) data. I’m not sure about any of the ARA data such as Melodyne, Drum Replacer or Vocal Sync.
so what happens then?
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jamesg1213
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 12:48:18
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pwalpwal
jamesg1213
Anderton
jamesg1213
I can only go by my experience; a few years ago I saved a lot of Sonar HS6XL projects as .BUN files and burned them to DVDs for back up. Last year I went through those DVDs, and only about half opened successfully.
I think that's probably about the DVDs, not the bundle files. The lifespan of a writeable DVD-ROM is highly variable depending on how it was manufactured, whether it used organic dyes, storage, etc. As I've mentioned before, currently the most robust form of optical storage is Blu-Ray media using inorganic dyes.
Possibly, but there are several bundle files on each DVD, some will open, some won't. But no, I don't back up to disc anymore, for the reasons mentioned.
you can test this by copying the BUNs off the DVD to HD before trying to open them - if the media is corrupt then windows will tell you
That's what I did, I never try and open projects directly from DVD. So, does that tell me the projects were corrupted by burning them and storing on DVD, or because some .BUN files are unstable?
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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pwalpwal
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 12:56:23
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jamesg1213
pwalpwal
jamesg1213
Anderton
jamesg1213
I can only go by my experience; a few years ago I saved a lot of Sonar HS6XL projects as .BUN files and burned them to DVDs for back up. Last year I went through those DVDs, and only about half opened successfully.
I think that's probably about the DVDs, not the bundle files. The lifespan of a writeable DVD-ROM is highly variable depending on how it was manufactured, whether it used organic dyes, storage, etc. As I've mentioned before, currently the most robust form of optical storage is Blu-Ray media using inorganic dyes.
Possibly, but there are several bundle files on each DVD, some will open, some won't. But no, I don't back up to disc anymore, for the reasons mentioned.
you can test this by copying the BUNs off the DVD to HD before trying to open them - if the media is corrupt then windows will tell you
That's what I did, I never try and open projects directly from DVD. So, does that tell me the projects were corrupted by burning them and storing on DVD, or because some .BUN files are unstable?
i would suggest that the BUNs are faulting, but i could be wrong i also seem to remember someone from cake (noel?) in the past recommended not using BUNs, rather the project-with-audio, but i could be wrong i'll be going through a bunch of my old stuff soon, will post how i get on
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jamesg1213
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 13:09:40
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pwalpwal
i would suggest that the BUNs are faulting, but i could be wrong
i also seem to remember someone from cake (noel?) in the past recommended not using BUNs, rather the project-with-audio, but i could be wrong
i'll be going through a bunch of my old stuff soon, will post how i get on
OK, that would be interesting. Yes, I back up all projects as per project folders now, to HD, One Drive and Box.net.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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stevesweat
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 13:53:26
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Bun files are too risky. I just tried to open some old ones and a couple were corrupted and wouldn't work. Per project folders are much better way to archive projects.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 14:27:35
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stevesweat
Bun files are too risky. I just tried to open some old ones and a couple were corrupted and wouldn't work. Per project folders are much better way to archive projects.
were the corrupted ones stored on DVD? we're trying to figure out if it's BUNs or DVDs that are dodgy
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stevesweat
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 15:29:05
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2018/01/07 16:18:50
pwalpwal
stevesweat
Bun files are too risky. I just tried to open some old ones and a couple were corrupted and wouldn't work. Per project folders are much better way to archive projects.
were the corrupted ones stored on DVD? we're trying to figure out if it's BUNs or DVDs that are dodgy
on cd's actually and some worked and some not from the same cd.
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 15:30:58
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Thanks everyone for the information and comments.
So when you are done with your project you just select "Save" to save the .CWP to the project folder and copy the project folder to your backup location to back it up?
Dell XPS 8700, 16GB's Ram, Sonar Platinum.
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stevesweat
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 15:44:23
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Serious_Noize!
Thanks everyone for the information and comments.
So when you are done with your project you just select "Save" to save the .CWP to the project folder and copy the project folder to your backup location to back it up?
Yes sir!
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Cactus Music
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Re: Best way to save Sonar projects?
2018/01/07 19:41:54
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Serious_Noize!
Thanks everyone for the information and comments.
So when you are done with your project you just select "Save" to save the .CWP to the project folder and copy the project folder to your backup location to back it up?
Yes. You can also plug in your external drive and use "save as" browse to the external and make sure you check the "copy Audio with project" box. This should also be a routine when working on important songs. What I'm doing right now is using One Drive and saving just the CWP which are 100% midi tracks at this point. I do this so I can work on the songs on 2 different computers. When I have the backing track perfected I "save as" to the Sonar Data drive on my main DAW and start recording the audio. I found out you can't record audio directly to One Drive, it will crash Sonar. It would suck up my limited bandwidth anyhow. I'm in the habit of copying all the projects I was working on to a back up drive at the end of the day.
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