Crg
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Bigger hard drive
How hard is it to put a bigger hard drive in your computer? I need a bigger C drive.
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bapu
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/10 22:48:02
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Well, not very difficult using a "drive copy" program, but the bigger issue is will all your installed apps/VSTs etc. balk (i.e. not work) because of the new hardware ID of the new drive. I've had this happen. Many VSTs (especially) tie the install to the ID of the hard drive.
That's the layman term for it (drive ID). I'm sure it's far more technical than that but in essence were talking a protection scheme so you don't clone your drive and give it away to friends etc.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/10 23:00:48
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hmm... Ghosting with the right software should be pretty simple but are you sure you actually need a bigger C drive? Your OS and main programs should live quite comfortably on something smallish. If it's for samples, storage, VSTs, etc... it would be way easier to just snag an extra drive and move/install stuff like that onto the new drive and leave the C as is. Sorry if I am missing something. I'm assuming this is for your DAW. More details would be good. Cheers.
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craigb
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/10 23:15:36
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I agree with Beep, ADD the larger drive and move all of your DATA files to it (you could also consider assigning temporary directories to the newer drive). Then keep your OS on your C drive and you'll see some faster drive access as well!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 10:27:56
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Yeah.... 2 things.
1. I cloned a hard drive once... It was the C drive and it had started to be a bit flakey on boot up so I bought a larger one and using the cloning software it came with I did the deed. It took about 15 minutes to clone it and swap the cables. I booted up on the new cloned drive and everything ran perfect with one minor issue. I had to reinstall from disk only one of my programs. Note: this was not a DAW.
2. Install the new drive as a drive other than C and use it to increase storage. You can move the folders on the C drive to it and simply tell the apps where the new folders are located. When you open the apps they won't be able to find the folders and will ask you to search. Do this once and you're done.
Unless the C drive is giving problems, I would let it stay as is..... the old expression about letting sleeping dogs lay...... and ...... if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.... both come to mind here.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 13:05:33
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Hmmm... The current C drive is a160 GB and I only have 43% of it left unused. In drive properties, it lists the capacity of the drive as 133 GB. Something flakey there. The D drive is a 250 GB and shows the proper capacity. Could the OS being on the C drive change the capacity listed?
I want to add X1 Pro. expanded to the C drive along with 8.5.3 Pro, both with all the softsynths and the VS700 System. All things considered, wouldn't it easier to do a reinstall of the OS, Sonar ( both versions), the rest of the system software on a new larger drive plugged into the C slot?
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bapu
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 13:13:45
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No drive EVER reports the capacity listed on the box. It's a "format" thing. 43% is not bad. It's when you get near or under 20% of the OS drive that you should be concerned.
One thing about moving folders; if you have EZDrummer (not Superior) and you've installed the samples to your C: drive you cannot move that samples folder. You MUST uninstall EZDrummer and select the option of where to install the samples. This is true of EVERY EZDrummer add on pack. Big bummer, but that is the way it is.
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bapu
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 13:24:15
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Crg
I want to add X1 Pro. expanded to the C drive along with 8.5.3 Pro, both with all the softsynths and the VS700 System. All things considered, wouldn't it easier to do a reinstall of the OS, Sonar ( both versions), the rest of the system software on a new larger drive plugged into the C slot?
Well that certainly would insure a clean install, and then as Jonbouy says, image that baby so you always have a clean restart point. For the record X1Pro Expanded will not take that much room (i.e. any significant portion of your available 43%).
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 13:31:23
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Yeah... 160GB is a little on the small side. If you fill it up to a certain capacity it may affect performance. Do you know how fast it is? These days for DAW stuff you want to be going for 7200rpm. Here is the drive I bought for my programs http://www.newegg.ca/Prod...x?Item=N82E16822136795 The Caviar Blacks seem to bee what everyone is using as far as mechanical drives on their audio systems. You could look at SSDs which are way faster (no moving parts) but they are considerably more expensive and the tech is still kind of new so they have a higher failure rate (or at least they did until very recently) so personally I avoided them. As far as your capacity question 133GB is probably the "formatted" size of the drive. When you format a drive (which has to be done when you install one) it gobbles up a certain amount of space. I think that's for the info it needs to communicate with the OS and your hardware but I'm not sure. Then when it is showing you the capacity it starts from the formatted number (in your case 133GB). That does seem a bit high for just formatting though but I'm no expert. It think with an OS/program drive you want to keep half the drive free to keep things running smoothly. IMO you should get another drive. However now you have to figure out what kind of drive you are currently using and what your system will take. If it's an older computer using IDE you're gonna have a hard time finding a suitable replacement. If you system can handle SATA drives then snag the Caviar Black I listed above. Then it comes down to how you are going to create your system image. You could use Win7 but I've heard that is not ideal. I've had Norton Ghost recommended to me but there are a couple of other softwares out ther that work well too. In fact I think craigb recommended one of the better ones to me but I forget the name. If you aren't quite sure what you are doing you might be better off taking it to a shop and getting them to do it. It is pretty simple in theory but you know computers... if something can screw up it likely will. Anyway, as I said I am no pro but I had to learn all this crap when I was building my system so I figured I'd offer some of what I learned. Cheers and good luck.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 13:35:05
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@bapu... Wouldn't a DAW be better off with more than the usual 20% seeing as how much more info it might be handling at one time? Like leaving TONS of room for caching and stuff makes things easier on the system?
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 13:50:23
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 14:07:20
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Here's a guy using Acronis to copy his old C drive to a new one. They are IDEs but the process should be the same. http://www.youtube.com/wa...1PZDWE&feature=related There are a ton more vids in the sidebar for cloning but I like this guy's accent... of course. ;-)
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craigb
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 14:34:57
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bapu
No drive EVER reports the capacity listed on the box. It's a "format" thing. 43% is not bad. It's when you get near or under 20% of the OS drive that you should be concerned.
One thing about moving folders; if you have EZDrummer (not Superior) and you've installed the samples to your C: drive you cannot move that samples folder. You MUST uninstall EZDrummer and select the option of where to install the samples. This is true of EVERY EZDrummer add on pack. Big bummer, but that is the way it is.
Partially true... Actually, the box lists the capacity in decimal notation (base 10 - so 160 GB is 160,000,000,000), but the computer uses things in binary (base 2 - so 160 GB is 149,000,000,000). NOW you add in the formatting, etc. and you're going to lose more. Your 133 GB is still a bit low so there could be other reasons like a dead partition or two that you won't see unless you're in a disk management utility. Anyway you cut it, even 160 GB is tiny now-a-days (but should be fine for an OS drive). So, if you can, I'd still recommend leaving the OS on your C drive and buying a larger drive as a second drive for your data. Personally (as I do with mine), I'd further make the first partition of the new drive match the OS drive in size (and leave it empty) so that I can restore an image backup to it if necessary. You'll want to have backup software like Acronys AND make a bootable backup CD. Then, if your C drive dies, you boot from the CD, restore to your newer drive, change the boot sequence in your BIOS and you should be back up and running. Once up, you should change the drive letters so the new partition is now "C" (note that the partition with your data should not have changed!). Finally, you'll want to get into the computer box and remove the dead harddrive and cables.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 14:44:59
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@craig... hey, that's a pretty cool way to do it. No down time while waiting for a replacement drive. Awesome.
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slartabartfast
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 16:57:32
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This is a good article on how to move common data files etc. off your c: drive. Windows and windows applications still seem to be written for the single drive computer, and most things default to storing lots of crap on the C: drive because the programmer knows it will always be there. Most of the space on your C: drive is probably being taken up by stuff that could equally well be somewhere else. For a 1 TB boot drive this is not a problem, but for a 60GB SSD boot drive it has become an art to move this stuff off C:. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/windows-7-and-ssds-cutting-your-system-drive-down-to-size/2941
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 21:28:27
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Anyway you cut it, even 160 GB is tiny now-a-days (but should be fine for an OS drive). So, if you can, I'd still recommend leaving the OS on your C drive and buying a larger drive as a second drive for your data. Personally (as I do with mine), I'd further make the first partition of the new drive match the OS drive in size (and leave it empty) so that I can restore an image backup to it if necessary. You'll want to have backup software like Acronys AND make a bootable backup CD. Then, if your C drive dies, you boot from the CD, restore to your newer drive, change the boot sequence in your BIOS and you should be back up and running. Once up, you should change the drive letters so the new partition is now "C" (note that the partition with your data should not have changed!). Finally, you'll want to get into the computer box and remove the dead harddrive and cables. That's even more complicated. Correct me if I'm wrong but the MB looks for the C drive to be plugged into a particular slot. Yes? As much as I don't want to reinstall everything to a new drive, messing with transfering data between drives on the computer sounds even worse. If I made a backup image disk of the C drive ( DVD), could I remove the old drive, plug in the new one and restore the new drive with the disk? I'm sure there's some formatting-setup to be done to the new drive prior to putting the OS and data software on it. It sounds a lot of steps either way.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:05:16
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Actually creating the image on an existing internal HDD and then loading it into the new drive would be far simpler than creating an image onto DVDs. A repair disc is very different from a full image. A full image will take up multiple DVDs and it takes longer and more effort (generally) than just transferring the data to another drive already on the system. If we had DVDs that held 50-100GBs of data and the data transferred as quickly as it does between installed drives AND if the quality of the discs were as reliable as an HDD then yes... that would probably be easier. But that unfortunately is not the case. What craigb describes would only require you to set up a partition (which is very easy), then set up your image software to send it to the correct partition on the secondary drive, remove the old drive, install the new one, format it then send the image back to the new drive. That MAY seem like a lot of effort but it would be way easier than using DVDs. You do however need some kind of bootable disk to act as your operating system to perform the final task which it sounds like Acronis will do. But really man... this is the type of thing you could probably pay a computer store to do for like $50 which frankly for people who aren't actually interested in the hows and whys and just want their computer to work is worth it. I only learn this crap because I find it interesting and hope some day to go to school for it/make a career out of it and I have the time. For anyone who's time is more valuable than what it costs to just get a paid dork to do it it probably isn't worth the effort. Cheers and good luck.
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:09:46
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I just watched a few of the youtube videos on cloning your harddrive. Yuh. Okay. They're a little sketchy. I would guess there are instructions for setting master and slave jumpers on the units-(harddrives), they don't give any. Plus, the hookups aren't addressed properly. Looks like a beech without some more information. Hello Geek Squad.
post edited by Crg - 2012/08/11 22:11:10
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:15:49
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Yeah Beepster, I'm looking at that. throwing the whole C drive on the D drive and cloning the new drive from the copy on D. But I haven't seen that method done so I'm just guessing I could.
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craigb
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:34:03
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Crg
Anyway you cut it, even 160 GB is tiny now-a-days (but should be fine for an OS drive). So, if you can, I'd still recommend leaving the OS on your C drive and buying a larger drive as a second drive for your data. Personally (as I do with mine), I'd further make the first partition of the new drive match the OS drive in size (and leave it empty) so that I can restore an image backup to it if necessary. You'll want to have backup software like Acronys AND make a bootable backup CD. Then, if your C drive dies, you boot from the CD, restore to your newer drive, change the boot sequence in your BIOS and you should be back up and running. Once up, you should change the drive letters so the new partition is now "C" (note that the partition with your data should not have changed!). Finally, you'll want to get into the computer box and remove the dead harddrive and cables.
That's even more complicated. Correct me if I'm wrong but the MB looks for the C drive to be plugged into a particular slot. Yes?
As much as I don't want to reinstall everything to a new drive, messing with transfering data between drives on the computer sounds even worse. If I made a backup image disk of the C drive ( DVD), could I remove the old drive, plug in the new one and restore the new drive with the disk? I'm sure there's some formatting-setup to be done to the new drive prior to putting the OS and data software on it.
It sounds a lot of steps either way.
Old motherboards tended to want the "master" drive connected onto a certain part of the cable and into the first (#0) slot for hard drives. If you have one of those you won't be able to get a new drive anyway because they don't make 'em anymore! All the new ones no longer have master/slave jumpers and you can plug them into the motherboard in any order (though you'll have to let the BIOS know when one is your boot drive if the default slot isn't the right drive). Although I hate working on PC's, I've gotten very used to these types of operations. If you're not to comfortable mucking around in there (especially if you have older hardware) then you probably should take it somewhere to have the operation done for you. Personally, I'd search Google for a small, independent repair shop instead of using the Geek Squad or one of the office supply stores.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:44:26
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So you are using IDE drives then? Can you provide some system specs? You can't really get new IDE drives any more. They are outdated and if your motherboard doesn't support SATA you should consider a full upgrade of your system (hate to say it but it's true). With SATA drives (which are the current standard) you don't need to worry about all that jumper nonsense. You can tell whether you have an IDE or a SATA by looking at the data cable. If it is a ribbon cable or a largish round cable with a wide connector it is likely an IDE. If it is a thin, flat cable with a small approx. centimeter wide connector then it is likely SATA. Sadly I have an old IDE system I thought I could bring up to modern standards but alas no. Just the way the tech world works unfortunately. Now almost a couple grand later I am up to day... for a few years anyway. Ooof. :-/
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:48:55
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@craigb... Yeah, Geek Squad blows and an independent shop is more likely to have some old IDEs kicking around to keep you moving until you get yourself into a position to build/buy a new system. However thos guys can be sharks so I'd recommend asking the forum after getting an initial estimate and description of what they told you they plan to do to your system. We'll sniff out any scammers for ya. Cheers.
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:50:07
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I have to disconnect it and look inside at this point. I'm pretty sure it's SATA system but I don't remember. It might be time for a new DAW whether I want it to be or not. Which would mean a fresh install. Yuck.
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 22:57:28
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There's a Frys not far from here, I'd trust them first. Simple swap for a tech but I'm not fluent in that hardware. My main concern is losing all the work on the DAW.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 23:03:26
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If it's SATA it's probably modern enough to keep going. There are a couple guys here running X1 on very old and not so powerful systems and they say it's fine with the right optimization.In fact one fellow was describing how I could turn the POS low powered laptop I am current typing on into an X1 system which would be awesome. Anyway, if it is currently working as you want just keep rolling with it and start a computer fund for when you REALLY need it. I dropped some serious coin into my build but I could have made X1 run flawlessly for about $800. I just went the "Swat a fly with a Buick" route because I wanted to use the thing for as long as possible and have it handle any ridiculousness I throw at it. So yeah... if it is still working for what you need and it is SATA, you're golden as far as the HDD swap. If it's IDE you could still maybe pull it off but it will take some doin'. BTW you can snag IDE drives on ebay if you really need to. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 23:07:43
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Oh... now THAT is where you can use DVDs. Just save all the important project files you want as CWBs (batch files which snag all the audio as well as the project info) and save them to DVD. You could take a sledgehammer to your system and be able to restore your files whenever you wanted (after you got a new computer of course). External USB drives and flash drives are great for this stuff too. Tons of options for backup and storage these days.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/11 23:30:46
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BTW... I wrenched my back last night so I'm stuck more or less immobile at the moment. This thread has kept my mind occupied so thanks. Cheers.
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Crg
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/12 19:29:39
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I'm glad you you can use this thread as a pain pill lol. I looked in the BIOS today and apparrently It might be a IDE. There was a listing, ATA configured as IDE. The only other choice was AHTA which is for Vista. SATA was listed but I'm not sure what it exactly means. Guess I'm going to have to unplug the box and look inside. The C drive was listed as a 160 GB in the Bios, so I'm guessing that 36 GB of the 160 have been reserved by the operating system and system files with administrator privelages.
I did finally do the core parking fix which resulted in a slightly faster boot up and more equal loading of the 4 cores. I could probably drop X1 Expanded on the C drive but I'm not sure what kind of resources it's going to reserve in the process.
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/12 20:34:48
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Hi, craig. I found another vid/software for you to check out (in fact I think I might use it because it's free) but it's the first time I've heard of this program so I can't guarantee it's solid but I'm sure you could research it more yourself. http://www.youtube.com/wa...HCzdDA&feature=related Also if you are looking to get some more power out of your system the Cakewalk tech guys (I called them when I was first trying to get set up) recommended the Sweetwater system optimization guide (WARNING: PDF file)... http://www.sweetwater.com...Optimization_Guide.pdf It worked quite well for me (although my system is very modern and a powerhouse I had some power management crap screwing things up) but there is one step in there that is apparently not good for Sonar. I believe it is the File Caching section so just skip that. Also here is the Focusrite optimization guide for extra just so you have two sources. http://www.focusrite.com/...en/article.php?id=1071 Back is feeling a little better today so hopefully I can get some work done myself this week. Cheers!
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Beepster
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Re:Bigger hard drive
2012/08/12 20:44:19
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Oh and you CAN actually still get old IDE drives like I said through ebay (I just checked) but they are either refurbs or old stock and I'm not sure if you'll find anything bigger than you already have. However there seems to be IDE/SATA adapter kits but I have no idea how those work or if they will do what you want. You may want to take a harder look at want you can move from your current C drive to other drives on your system. If you can snag some extra IDEs and use them for extra storage and create a full clone of your current C drive incase of failure that could keep you running a while longer. I actually have to do the exact same thing on my old DAW so I can keep it running.
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