Helpful ReplyBiggest Sonar problem I've ever had

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ampfixer
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2017/04/06 21:42:56 (permalink)

Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had

This is a real frustrating problem. I'm working today and everything is going fine. Today's chore was to record about 25 short guitar pieces, none longer than 1 minute. Each bit was on its own track. I was working along fine until I noticed that some of the tracks had become empty. The graphical display of data vanished and there was no sound. As I investigated, more tracks started to vanish.
 
I had been saving after every track so they wav files are there if viewed from outside of Sonar. Sonar will no longer see those files. I can play them in other media players and DAW's, but not Sonar. I created a new project and tried to import the wav files. I can see them, Sonar sees them and says it's importing them, but after the import I'm left with an empty track.
 
I've now got a major project on hold with 50 hours of recording in the can and a film crew sitting idle. Anyone care to toss a brother a life line? Until I figure what happened and how to fix it, I'm toast.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#1
bitman
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 22:18:36 (permalink)
Outside shotgun try:
 
Have you opened a fresh new project and tried to import one?
Sound like for whatever reason your project is fubared
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PeterMc
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 22:19:34 (permalink)
Maybe something to do with timestamps in the wav files? Maybe they are being imported and appearing much further down the time line. There are settings for this in Preferences/File/Audio Data.
 
Cheers, Peter.
 

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shawn@trustmedia.tv
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 22:27:05 (permalink)
re-install sonar...
 

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#4
ampfixer
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 22:28:28 (permalink)
I've checked all of the above without success. Even a new Sonar project wouldn't show the files. I'm hitting the help files right now and I've sent a message to tech support. Hopefully I can get on the phone with them for some hand holding.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#5
PeterMc
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 22:33:32 (permalink)
Can you put one of the wav files somewhere (Dropbox?) where we can look at it, try to import it etc?
 

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#6
ampfixer
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 22:46:04 (permalink)
The wav files are just fine. I can play them in any DAW but Sonar. It's almost like they've been flagged by Sonar to be ignored. I created a new project, selected import audio, selected one of the wav files and selected import. Sonar shows the import progress and completes the task, except there's nothing in the track. If I do the same thing in Mixbus it works fine. I've got to take a break, been working on this for 6 hours now and everything looks fine, but isn't. I'm willing to bet it's something simple and stupid, that's why I can't find it.  Too worked up to think clearly.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#7
PeterMc
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 23:02:04 (permalink)
Two more suggestions:
Try dragging and dropping the wav file into a new project.
Hit shift-F (with track view having the focus) to expand view to cover all clips.
 
Good luck.
 
Cheers, Peter.

i5 6500, H170M, Intel HD 530, 16GB, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, Win 10 Pro (1803) (64 bit), Cakewalk by Bandlab

#8
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 23:12:11 (permalink)
My suspicion is that Sonar embeds some sort of data tags in the files and those tags go fubar'd. Now Sonar sees that the tag is there, but can't read it and chaos ensues. I would try importing the files into something else and then saving them under new names and then import that into Sonar and see if that gets it.

 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
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#9
ampfixer
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/06 23:59:38 (permalink)
I've already had a note from Cakewalk support. (thanks guys) They think I should reinstall. Since it's a 40 min drive to my recording site it will have to wait until tomorrow.  Thanks for the ideas. I really wish I could call them. Where I'm recording has no internet, so no way to communicate other than phone. There's nothing I can do but drive there, try a fix, drive home and report. Not ideal to be sure. I've already cancelled tomorrows session.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#10
bitman
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 00:41:04 (permalink)
Are you sure the import file filters in the open file dialog are right?
Files of type.
 
#11
ampfixer
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 01:20:12 (permalink)
I think I know what may have caused the problem. I've been rebuilding the project on my home machine and can see an issue with the wave files. There's 23 tracks with 1 wave file for each track. Track 16 is missing and two tracks are named Track 18. I'm thinking that Sonar got its data table mixed up. I've only lost 1 track, so at this point it's just annoying. My concern is more about why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#12
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 01:51:06 (permalink)
Before reinstalling, I'd try the renaming the file trick (quick and easy). Or better yet, open the file in a wav editing program, copy the audio, paste it to a new file, save under a new name. I bet the new file will import into the project without issue.

 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
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#13
wayne T.handzus
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 05:52:00 (permalink)
looks like take lane view ,. while in take lane view the clips wont appear under the track they appear under take lanes,.
i have had individual track actu p from time to time,. where there is nothing i can do for them move the daa to another track , rite clic,. insert new track then move the picture data to the new track,.
in your case it can be accessed from either your wave directory using windows or thru the browser view by hitting 'B'
thats the only thing i can think of rite now,
oh yes,
the file track maybe are showing way far off screen,.
relax,. would you,.
sonar is logical, it is allways something that is easy to fix,.
import at midi time or something could be something like that,. i dont recall now,.
1st
set the cursor on the left margin
and then drop the files into the track view from windows,
sonar will write the track name using the name from the wave file
when ever the files do not appear (usually)they are off screen,.
if your like me your gonna feel like a dummy when you see what it is,
thats the way i allwasy feel,.
theyre are only like about a million things that can go wrong
so take your time and dont get worried ,. sonar works good ,.
as i said, every now and then, a audio track stops working ,
hardly ever ,. if it does happen veryseldom,.
much easier and faster to insert a new track
(rather tnen try and figure out whats wrong and how to fix it,)
then move the data to the new track,.
delete the track thats not working, but i dont think thats your trouble rite now,
you may see it during the years ahead,.
i been using sonar for over 10 years now,.
every day,.
SONAR works good, when it doesnt, it is something i have set wrong or need to reboot or,
hardly ever, once or twice in the past 10 years, reinstall using the install file patch panic button fixes whats wrong, thats very rare,
i have had thousands of tracks in a project,.
never have seen them disappear.
have you tried looking under track manager?, hit 'H'

oh , yes the options for copy,. and drag copy
the new version uses something i did not expect that messed me up too,
rather then blend old with new,. it was saying move over to make room
there are 3 choices and once one of them is made , it stays there until you change it.
itll stay like that for months or years if you dont change it,.
but the new versions installer change it to slide over to make room' or
'align to measures' or something,.
really blew my mind when i saw it do that,.
i advise you not to cancel work ,
go check it out again and dont give up until you find it
your using the rite resource now, these forums are good and helpful,.
i recently added a new cellular phone,. i too have no internet connect to my machine,. normally,
however, new phone,. you can get them cheap nowadays on special deals,.
new phone has a usb cable port
(my old 5 dollar used phone had that port too,)
that i can plug into my machine and then i have internet,.
they call it 'usb tetheing"
have to pay for something else i dont use (mobille hotspot) to get the service but,.
it isnt unlimited , even tho i have an unlimited plan,
when im hooked up to the internet i have to watch it.,. microsoft' ll use up my whole allotment of bytes for the month doing updates
then the circuit slows WAY down 100 times slower to dial up speed,.
crawling,. 120kilo bits per second which was fast back when we used telex machines,.
and twx teletype machines,. 100 words per minute
that was early mid 1980's,. late70s, and 60's
telex was strong,. nowadays it takes several days 24 hours a day to update anything at that speed,. 300 years to send a full project
with all audio and all,.
workaround,. i can download sonar patchs direct to the phone then move them to the computer and that way i i dont use up any bytes of the phone to computer patch .,
it does work and is cheaper then having a phone and a computer hook up and i m on a low budget, but i am working every day on sonar,.
even tho im not receiving any kind of pay for doing so ,.i have product preped.
thats the main thing
im on fixed income so i have to watch my coins,.
i manage to buy needed upgrades or hardware too if i watch my coins,.
thats another story tho

maybe that'll help you hook up your machine if only temporary,.
your gonna find the trouble tomorrow when you look ,.
good luck,.
.for other help as musicians of all kinds and guitarists, there is afm.com
#14
dcumpian
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 12:32:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/04/07 20:52:43
Could this have anything to do with a full picture cache?
 
Dan
 

Mixing is all about control.
 
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#15
gswitz
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 13:09:07 (permalink)
I got nothing.

I have seen it where I recorded long w64 files with another app... DigiCheck... and the did not import properly.

It hasn't happened to me that I recorded with sonar and had any issue.

I would be sure to turn on project versioning so that I could get versions with the problem and without that I could provide to support.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#16
bitman
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 14:15:35 (permalink)
I think you better bring it in so we can have a look at it.
#17
ampfixer
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 15:41:44 (permalink)
I've recreated the project and only lost 1 30 second clip. The issue that caused all of my panic was that everything stopped. The client kind of lost it. I didn't know what was going on immediately but assured him that nothing was lost. I suggested that we carry on with a new project and finish the day's work. He didn't want to because he had lost confidence in me and Sonar. SO no work today. 
 
The customer doesn't like it when you make excuses. I knew we were good but he didn't want to continue until I found the problem, fixed it and could provide assurance that it wouldn't happen again. To make things more complicated, there's a documentary film being developed and the customer was going to have a film crew in to capture the creative process. That would include yours truly and Sonar. Let's just say it wasn't good PR for me or Sonar yesterday. One thing you can't say to the customer is "don't worry, these things happen all the time". 
 
It was a small thing that became a big thing, and the fact that I couldn't pick up the phone and call somebody became an issue. We have been working for months on this project with almost 50 hours of problem free recording. One little glitch and suddenly the sky is falling. But that's life. It's going to take about a year to finish this project so I'm pretty sure it will happen again. It's on me to deal with it while reducing any negative impact to the customer.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#18
Anderton
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 15:48:37 (permalink)
It's really unfortunate and you have my sympathies. I've never heard of something like this happening before...can anyone recall if anyone has experienced something similar? If so, it's important to get to the root cause and if not, that seems to imply "system-specific"...which means trying to find out what can cause something like this to happen so others can avoid it.
 
I've gotten use to the fact that computer-based recording is risky. I've had issues with classical music projects using Pro Tools, but because it's the "industry standard," people are more forgiving..."Well, you're using the industry standard software, so there's not much else you can do." Right.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#19
ampfixer
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 16:15:53 (permalink)
Thanks Craig. Artists can be very emotional folks. If you kill the vibe, you kill the session.
 
While rebuilding the file I noticed that one clip was missing and two different clips had been given the same name. This has me thinking that the system for indexing the files got messed up and wouldn't allow Sonar to figure out what file went with what track. Tech support has offered no ideas other than reinstall and try again.
 
I think the customer was most annoyed when he asked me to get someone on the phone to sort it out. I told him that the company had no phone support. That got a real negative response and questions as to how"professional" the software was. I'm trying to forget the whole thing. Thankfully, good save and backup practices prevented any real loss of work, just 30 seconds of guitar. Ctrl-s is my best friend.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#20
Anderton
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 16:54:26 (permalink)
ampfixer
Thankfully, good save and backup practices prevented any real loss of work, just 30 seconds of guitar. Ctrl-s is my best friend.



Careful and smart, Yoda is.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#21
bapu
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 19:10:43 (permalink)
Being a client is sooooooooo much better than having a client.
 
I hope you get it sorted out John.
#22
twelvetone
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 19:49:04 (permalink)
Really sounds like picture cash.
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Hill62
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 20:35:17 (permalink)
Cakewalk took a big step back in support when they removed phone support. There should at least be a "Pro" option for those making a living and willing to pay for it.

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#24
glennstanton
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 20:56:06 (permalink)
mentioned several times - clear your picture cache and see if that helps. sometimes (esp in earlier pre-X versions) i found SONAR "losing" the track but after reading someones comments on the picture cache, they came back as the project had to re-draw the waveforms. i think there is also a setting to set the size of the cache and you might expand it a bit in case there was an issue where the pictures were "rolling over" or indexing properly.
 
quick search result: http://forum.cakewalk.com/SOLVED-Picture-cache-waveforms-disappearing-in-large-project-m3479978.aspx
 

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
#25
Anderton
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 21:40:20 (permalink)
Hill62
Cakewalk took a big step back in support when they removed phone support. There should at least be a "Pro" option for those making a living and willing to pay for it.



Try obedia.com. They do remote desktop support, and when you need to have someone get your computer back online ASAP, it's worth the cost. I've used their support a couple times, and it was outstanding.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#26
Afrodrum
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/07 21:57:49 (permalink)
I used to loose audio clips in X3 and early Splat, recorded or dragged from browser. It turned out they somehow ended up 90 or 100 minutes down the project even though the song was 5-6 minutes long. So when audio is missing check content at the end of the project, you might be surprised where the end is.

Windows 10/64, Intel i7 Xeon X6575 3,07GHz, 24Gb RAM, chipset: Intel X58 Express, Kingston SSD 240Gb,  Sonar Platinum , Edirol UA-25.  (Some extra VSTs: PSP almost all/  IK - AT4, ST3, / AAS - all/ TH3 full/ +10dB/ Melodyne Editor). EVE sc205 monitors, Defil Kosmos guitar, blue lava lamp, ashtray.  And there is some great music you may find at: https://soundcloud.com/pawel-jan-1
 
 
 
 
#27
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/08 01:26:04 (permalink)
I just upgraded my audio I/O to an RME UFX. That unit has a handy feature for situations like this. There's a USB port on the front panel. You can connect up a USB memory stick or USB hard drive and the unit will record a safety copy of audio. I don't do work for anyone but myself. But if I did do projects for others, I would definitely make use of that feature.

 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
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#28
Wibbles
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/08 12:38:44 (permalink)
Afrodrum
I used to loose audio clips in X3 and early Splat, recorded or dragged from browser. It turned out they somehow ended up 90 or 100 minutes down the project even though the song was 5-6 minutes long. So when audio is missing check content at the end of the project, you might be surprised where the end is.


That would be if the "Always Import Broadcast Waves At Their Timestamp" option is checked.

I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
 
#29
jatoth
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Re: Biggest Sonar problem I've ever had 2017/04/08 13:24:15 (permalink)
ampfixer
While rebuilding the file I noticed that one clip was missing and two different clips had been given the same name.



This is the most important piece of the puzzle. The Bakers need to study what could have gone wrong there.

John
 
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