Helpful ReplyBluetubes brickwall limiter on Master ouput, sounds good , minus the 'pumping'

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guitz
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2016/06/05 10:38:48 (permalink)

Bluetubes brickwall limiter on Master ouput, sounds good , minus the 'pumping'

So I figure that some kind of limiter or compressor across the master output of a nearly finished tune would punch things up, so I put in the BlueTubes brickwall limiter across the master output and sure enough, the sounds is bigger, punchier, louder....but, hearing a quick mixed down verison  in windows media player , I can sense some pumping going on, that I either did not hear initially, or that became more exaggerated and noticeable when I listened thru media player and have the bass boost and WOW  (which I love) ON...The controls in the software are minimal which I like...threshold and release and switch to control peaks, I set it ON but I don't know what the best settings are for the threshold and release....I try to use my ears, but can't decide what sounds best, or rather what sound better without hearing the pumping going on....is a fast or slow release better? Where should the threshold be set if the master output is mostly just under 0 db thru the whole song?
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Bluetubes brickwall limiter on Master ouput, sounds good , minus the 'pumping' 2016/06/05 14:42:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2016/06/05 17:14:24
guitz
So I figure that some kind of limiter or compressor across the master output of a nearly finished tune would punch things up, so I put in the BlueTubes brickwall limiter across the master output and sure enough, the sounds is bigger, punchier, louder....but, hearing a quick mixed down verison  in windows media player , I can sense some pumping going on, that I either did not hear initially, or that became more exaggerated and noticeable when I listened thru media player and have the bass boost and WOW  (which I love) ON...The controls in the software are minimal which I like...threshold and release and switch to control peaks, I set it ON but I don't know what the best settings are for the threshold and release....I try to use my ears, but can't decide what sounds best, or rather what sound better without hearing the pumping going on....is a fast or slow release better? Where should the threshold be set if the master output is mostly just under 0 db thru the whole song?




Rule of thumb for all home recordists.....all WOW, bass boosters, surround sound, simulated surround sound, disabled at all times.
 
If you shut WOW bass boost off, do you still hear the pumping? My guess would be no. It's actually an ugly effect that no one can hear but you on your system. In a car or some other place, you will get different results. I think you're going about things all wrong and you'll never hear what you should be hearing unless you have a stripped down system that isn't coloring your judgement. Wow is actually clipping due to the limiting you added. Any bass you have going on is being pushed by the limiter and WOW is trying to enhance it to the point of sounding bad. It pumps because your mix is probably too hot and you are not curbing the proper low end frequencies.
 
The release depends on how your material is responding to the limiter. A mix "just under 0dB" is too hot in my opinion. You are not allowing yourself any mastering room and you are more likely to get artifacts, especially if you are just experimenting and are not quite up to mastering things correctly. The threshold is what will allow you to hear more of the limiter, or less. No one can tell you what the settings should be as every mix is different.
 
I will say that most of the limiters I use, the mix is exported at -3dB so that I have a little room to work on limiting, master eq and anything else that I need to do to the master. From there, most of my limiters are set to taste depending on how the material reacts. On some limiters, I can't get hotter than -4dB on the threshold without hearing pumping, distortion artifacts, or a loss of crack in a snare drum. Release times can be short of long...again it depends on the material. I've been anywhere from 1 ms to 10 ms or higher. It depends on the limiter, how it reacts and what type of material I'm dealing with. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but that's how you have to look at things.
 
-Danny

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guitz
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Re: Bluetubes brickwall limiter on Master ouput, sounds good , minus the 'pumping' 2016/06/05 21:21:39 (permalink)
 
 
Rule of thumb for all home recordists.....all WOW, bass boosters, surround sound, simulated surround sound, disabled at all times.
 
If you shut WOW bass boost off, do you still hear the pumping? My guess would be no. It's actually an ugly effect that no one can hear but you on your system. In a car or some other place, you will get different results. I think you're going about things all wrong and you'll never hear what you should be hearing unless you have a stripped down system that isn't coloring your judgement. Wow is actually clipping due to the limiting you added. Any bass you have going on is being pushed by the limiter and WOW is trying to enhance it to the point of sounding bad. It pumps because your mix is probably too hot and you are not curbing the proper low end frequencies.
 
The release depends on how your material is responding to the limiter. A mix "just under 0dB" is too hot in my opinion. You are not allowing yourself any mastering room and you are more likely to get artifacts, especially if you are just experimenting and are not quite up to mastering things correctly. The threshold is what will allow you to hear more of the limiter, or less. No one can tell you what the settings should be as every mix is different.
 
I will say that most of the limiters I use, the mix is exported at -3dB so that I have a little room to work on limiting, master eq and anything else that I need to do to the master. From there, most of my limiters are set to taste depending on how the material reacts. On some limiters, I can't get hotter than -4dB on the threshold without hearing pumping, distortion artifacts, or a loss of crack in a snare drum. Release times can be short of long...again it depends on the material. I've been anywhere from 1 ms to 10 ms or higher. It depends on the limiter, how it reacts and what type of material I'm dealing with. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but that's how you have to look at things.
 
-Danny


 
 



 



I think you're right...I don't think I'm hearing it, or at least not nearly as noticeable with WOW off and when I listen in Cakewalk ...when you say 'it depends on the material' as to whether you set long or short release....what in the material makes the determing factor(s) for long or short release?...I'm doing a cover of a 125bpm pop rock song...typical crunchy 70's era guitar/bass/drums and a keyboard line....short or fast there?
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