Bounce all VST's to Audio

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Dave King
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2010/03/02 21:41:33 (permalink)

Bounce all VST's to Audio

Hey,
 
In the current issue of EQ, there's an article about the recording of an album by a band called Groove Armada.
 
In the article, they explain that they found there to be a "massive improvement" in sound quality of VST instruments and effects if they were (in Sonar language) bounced to tracks prior to final mixdown.
 
Has anyone experimented with this in Sonar and found similiar or dis-similar results?
 
To me, it doesn't seem logical that it would make a difference in sound quality if the numbers are crunched now or later.
 
Nevertheless, I'm curious.
 
Any opinions?

Dave King
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#1

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    bitflipper
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/02 21:50:10 (permalink)
    And did they say where, exactly, this "massive" improvement would come from? The process is exactly the same, and the results are exactly the same. Yeh, I read that same article, and my thought was "I think it's time to let my EQ subscription expire."


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/02 22:08:40 (permalink)
    I do a lot of this before a mix. I only have a single core 3 GHz cpu and yet I am able to create projects with vast numbers of tracks and my CPU meter is often no more than 5% or 10%. Yet I read people here having super i7 core machines running flat out to keep up with hundreds of soft synths and audio plugins. (and their cpu meters are nearly overloading) In my case the CPU is not doing much so maybe there is some truth in that statement. In a case where people have got their super computers running flat out maybe trying to keep up with all that may just effect sound quality. There could be jitter issues or clock issues or any number of things. Think of your poor cpu having to do billions of operations just to keep your music playing properly. By freezing, suddenly your cpu(s) are idle with nothing to do! Sort of reminds me of a V8 or a 4 cylinder crusing at 100 mph. One is relaxed another is not.


    I like the way Sonar puts the synth (or plugin) into hibernation so to speak. I never have any problems unfreezing if I need to, the synth comes back, change the parts and re freeze. It is so fast too.

    The reality is that at some point you have to stop changing the music and sign off on it so why not freeze it as well.

    Also it is a great habit to get into in terms of exporting projects to other people or mixing things again much later or just having everything consolodated and frozen so it can be played back anywhere at anytime. I plan to upgrade to a very fast machine too but I am still planning to freeze everything first.  Your machine will never crash either when you do a lot of this.

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    AT
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/03 01:42:13 (permalink)
    Yea I freeze tracks and then copy them to audio tracks.  But I've never noticed them sounding better except when I used to overload my CPU.  Crackles and drop outs never improved the sound.  Maybe that is what they mean.

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    brundlefly
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/03 02:01:57 (permalink)
    In a case where people have got their super computers running flat out maybe trying to keep up with all that may just effect sound quality. There could be jitter issues or clock issues or any number of things. Think of your poor cpu having to do billions of operations just to keep your music playing properly. By freezing, suddenly your cpu(s) are idle with nothing to do! Sort of reminds me of a V8 or a 4 cylinder crusing at 100 mph. One is relaxed another is not.

     
    A CPU is not an internal combustion engine. Processing more data faster does not compromise the quality of the output. Also bouncing and exporting audio is not a real-time process so no clocking is involved, and jitter is not possible. Barring a misbehaving plug-in or synth (which would misbehave the same in a single-track bounce as in a full mixdown or export), there should be no difference. And if there were a difference, I'm sure the exact cause could be easily tracked down and remedied, rather than attributing the "massive improvement" to some sort of unexplained alchemical magic.
     
     
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/03 04:00:52 (permalink)
    Brundlefly I tend to agree. But there could be a case for simply an overworked CPU having problems keeping up with the demands made of it but then you would hear the results of that. In terms of sound quality being different with bounced tracks not sure on that. I am open to ideas there. I tend to do it for the reasons of just having a full set of audio files that can be easily exported or even remixed at a much later stage when some of your instruments or plugins may not be present.

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    Slugbaby
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/03 06:41:24 (permalink)
    Like Jeff, the only benefit i can see of bouncing VSTs is to lessen the CPU workload.
    Actually, a second would be to simply clean up your workspace, getting the clutter out of your track view and fx bin.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/03 07:49:00 (permalink)
    I agree...as long as the CPU can keep up with the data stream, the sound should be the same either way.  As my plug in and VST's became better (and larger and more demanding on the CPU).... higher quality FX and samples.... huge honkin samples, I began to notice a big jump in my meters.  Both the CPU and Disk.

    So I instituted a new way of working that involves inserting my synth and perfecting that track in the midi world...then I bounce it to audio... double check the audio to be sure it bounced correctly with no glitches.... then I remove that synth, or more often, insert a new midi source and lay down the next instrument...repeating the bounce for each.

    I end up with all audio tracks, no synths, and in my dry pre-mix...a meter reading about 5% on CPU.

    Bouncing in and of itself does not IMHO improve the quality of the sound.... but it lets the CPU handle the load with ease, and that means no snap, crackle, pop, drops, and pauses in the playback.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/03/03 07:50:04

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    brundlefly
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/03 13:47:59 (permalink)
    I tend to do it for the reasons of just having a full set of audio files that can be easily exported or even remixed at a much later stage when some of your instruments or plugins may not be present.



    I'm all for that, and tend to do that as well... mostly out of the habit of working with hardware synths.
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    Thrillington
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    Re:Bounce all VST's to Audio 2010/03/04 18:23:10 (permalink)
    I always bounce to waveforms so that I can see exactly what is happening and where. Lots of people prefer to work with audio.

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