Bouncing Virtual Instruments

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konradh
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2012/05/27 17:44:39 (permalink)

Bouncing Virtual Instruments

 OK, I am sorry now that I set up some virtual instruments as Simple Instrument Tracks, but now I have already done it, so....to record one as audio, what is the best procedure? I can freeze the tracks, but I was thinking it would be better to preserve the original and bounce/record to a different track. Examples: Ivory Grands, SI Bass Guitar.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2012/06/04 09:50:57
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    John
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/27 17:58:00 (permalink)
    Freeze will do the very same thing except you can unfreeze.

    You can separate instrument tracks back to MIDI and audio tracks.

    Best
    John
    #2
    Luteman
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/27 18:02:40 (permalink)
    Bounce to Track will also do it, but I can't see any advantage over freezing the track, as John says.

    Chris
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    #3
    konradh
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/27 18:13:17 (permalink)
    OK, thanks. My only concern with Freeze was that if the virtual instrument died for some reason that I would lose the track. I have had an issue lately with VIs failing. (An Electri6ity update blew up my library and then, later, some of my Vienna instruments disappeared.)
    #4
    John
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/27 18:23:10 (permalink)
    konradh


    OK, thanks. My only concern with Freeze was that if the virtual instrument died for some reason that I would lose the track. I have had an issue lately with VIs failing. (An Electri6ity update blew up my library and then, later, some of my Vienna instruments disappeared.)


    When you freeze a track you are actually making an audio file. It no longer is dependent on the synth.

    To me Sonar's freeze it the best freeze of any DAW. Cubase for example hides the frozen track and it can not be altered in any way including adding FX.

    Best
    John
    #5
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/28 03:07:58 (permalink)
    Freeze is fine. Just remember, that if you edit the frozen audio, you lose all the edits if you thaw the track.

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    ProjectM
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/28 05:21:09 (permalink)
    And don't worry about loosing your work if a VSTi goes haywire - when you freeze a MIDI track, Sonar hides the MIDI track (or not depending on your freeze setings) and never delete it. If your VSTi becomes unusable and you need to do edits, the MIDI track can always be brought back with the track manager or by Unfreezing the track. Go ahead man, it's fool proof


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    HeatherHaze
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/28 06:32:55 (permalink)
    John already mentioned this, but this is something I had to learn as well.  You can easily separate an Instrument Track into its respective MIDI and Synth tracks.  Just right click on the track and select "Split Instrument Track".  You can also recombine them later, by selecting both tracks together, right clicking one of them and selecting, "Make Instrument Track".  Works great.  :)
     
    So far, I've found Instrument Tracks somewhat useful for cleaning up my tracks when I'm not working with them.  But for big projects with lots of synths, I drop all the synth tracks in a separate folder so I can just work with the MIDI.  This will probably be my default modus operandi from now on. 
     
    So for now, my official opinion of Instrument Tracks is, "Meh."  Great idea, but not quite ripe.

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    bitflipper
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/28 11:44:08 (permalink)
    The advantage of bouncing versus freezing is that you can continue to work on automation after the bounce. Although you can tweak automation on a frozen track, those edits will be lost if you ever need to un-freeze it. Trim/gain settings are similarly lost. The advantage of freezing over bouncing is, of course, the convenience of one-click operation and one-click un-do.

    I like to have the best of both methods. I'll freeze the synth and then ctl-shift-drag the frozen audio into an adjacent track. The original frozen track can then be muted, archived and even hidden. If I ever want to go back and modify the MIDI data or synth settings, I can simply delete the new audio clip (all automation, effects and trim/gain setting remain intact), unfreeze the synth and repeat the process. 


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    #9
    konradh
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/05/28 19:46:44 (permalink)
    Heather, Thanks. I will do this since I like to hide all MIDI in a folder so it doesn't show up on my V-Studio mixer. Bitflipper, Thanks. If I can drag the audio and then process or automate like any other audio, that really is the best of both worlds. By the way, how does one edit the title of a post? Although I am The Mighty Konrad, I did not mean to write "Veirtual" like an old Norse word.
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    lawajava
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/04 00:06:28 (permalink)
    I have yet another route that I've been using as an additional strategy. I freeze a soft synth when I've got something cool and I can stop there if that's all I'm doing. Which is what a bunch of folks have commented on - and freezing it takes it out of the CPU demand. But if I know I'm going to tweak around with automation envelopes and I want to preserve those changes, I can just copy or drag the audio right out of the frozen track to a fresh audio track and do all my envelope edits on the audio track. I then mute the frozen track since I'm not really needing to listen to it. But since it's frozen it's kept the original source so that I can jump back to it, and also taken the soft synth out of the CPU cycles.

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    jbraner
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/04 07:35:38 (permalink)
    I like to have the best of both methods. I'll freeze the synth and then ctl-shift-drag the frozen audio into an adjacent track.
    That's exactly what I do. This way you don't have to worry if you add measures to the song or whatever (I think this confuses the "unfreeze").

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/04 08:41:13 (permalink)
    I use the FREEZE only as a temporary thing.... if I need to work on something else and want to lighten the CPU a bit... 

    As has been pointed out, edits in the frozen audio are lost if the track is unfrozen.  So when I get the midi editing done and the track is as right as I'm gonna get it..... I will often simply bounce it (the entire track) to audio. 

    You can easily copy the frozen audio into a new track....clone it....or bounce the track. 

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/04 09:52:45 (permalink)
    konradh


    Heather, Thanks. I will do this since I like to hide all MIDI in a folder so it doesn't show up on my V-Studio mixer. Bitflipper, Thanks. If I can drag the audio and then process or automate like any other audio, that really is the best of both worlds. By the way, how does one edit the title of a post? Although I am The Mighty Konrad, I did not mean to write "Veirtual" like an old Norse word.

    I edited the title for you :) I think you should be able to edit the message yourself and change the title.

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    #14
    konradh
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/09 14:52:12 (permalink)
    OK, a little follow-up on this. I can Freeze the Virtual instrument: that's OK. Weirdly, however, I cannot record that audio track. By that I mean there is no Record Arm button on the audio track that is created when you insert a soft synth with a MIDI and Audio track. If I create a new audio track, the moment I make its input the soft synth, the Record button goes away. The only options seems to be to freeze and then drag the audio to a blank track. It works, but I find it odd. Is there no way to use normal record instead of Freeze? With normal record I could hear and manipulate the rest of the tracks.
    #15
    John
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/09 16:06:25 (permalink)
    An audio track with a soft synth input has no need for record arm.  You either bounce or freeze it.

    I am not sure what you are trying to do but with a soft synth play back is all you need to hear and manipulate other tracks while the synth plays.

    Freeze and or bounce is only needed to turn the MIDI data into audio at a point in the process when you want to make all your edits permanent.

    You don't need to freeze until you reach that point.

    Best
    John
    #16
    konradh
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/09 16:14:54 (permalink)
    Thanks, John. It just seems inconsistent to be unable to record an audio track in the normal fashion, but no big deal. It works--thanks.
    #17
    John
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    Re:Bouncing Veirtual Instruments 2012/06/09 16:24:53 (permalink)
    konradh


    Thanks, John. It just seems inconsistent to be unable to record an audio track in the normal fashion, but no big deal. It works--thanks.


    There is nothing normal about using a soft synth.  If it were a hardware synth than you would record the audio.

    This is the way its always been in Sonar except there was no such thing as freeze. In order to save a soft synths output it had to be bounced. Freeze was a feature that came along a while back.
     

    Best
    John
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