Bouncing and Export - in need of improvement ?

As a sound designer I need to rely on very fast bouncing of midi to audio and fast export methods.  However, Sonar does not allow to do this fast, without unnecesary, manual stages, that should be automated. I wanted to show what I mean and see if anyone else would benefit from a faster workflow here. If at any stage you see that there is a quicker method, i would be grateful if you mention that. Let me also add that I'm writing this to share what I have found that slows me down in my daily projects, and to air my hopes for a better workflow, and not as a criticism of Sonar. The issues I talk about here have bothered me for a long time, but I never had the courage to write in the forum about them. *blush*

So let me explain what the problem is.

My audio track has lots of short audio clips which I need to export. Each clip is named. But it is not possible to select all my clips in the audio track and export them en masse as individaul clips. What's worse, Sonar does not have an option to use each clip's name as the export file name. Nor does it have an option to use the track's name. I need to type the name for the WAV export file each time ( or paste it if it is a common name between all exported clips and add any necesary annotations - but why should I ? All my clips are correctly named already) . However, the whole process of preparing files ( before I export them) is very slow as well. If I want to bounce a VSTi file I need to select the midi track and the audio track of this VSTi for it to bounce down. If I don't do it, and only select the clip to be bounced, Sonar will show this message, even though the track/folder in question is highlited:

" The specified selection did not contain any audio data. Please ensure that the selection contains the audio data you wish to bounce".

Firstly, this message makes no sense, since I need to select an audio track and not audio data (there is no audio data). Secondly, why do I need to select it ? My midi track has to go through its associated audio track every time. So why the need to set it manually every time ? The situation is made worse ( yes again) in that, when I select a clip on the midi track, then select the midi and audio track for bouncing, then bounce, then select another clip...the audio track is deselected, so it means I have to select both tracks again! Now, my track can have lots and lots of midi to bounce. So each time I bounce a midi clip, I need to re-select the midi and audio tracks! But this should be automated, or rather pre-set to go via one audio track without me telling it. The same situation applies to the VSTi track if it is converted to an Instrument Track. Which is weird, as it is now a combined midi/audio track. Why then do I need to click on its track number for it to bounce down ?

Now, let's move on to the Bounce to Tracks diolg. Here, again, I would welcome an option that would save me time. Basically, I need to choose a destination and stay with it for all my bouncing, untill I wish to select another destination. At the moment each bounce will ask for a destination. But, I'm bouncing to the same track as I go along. I would welcome an option which would lock the output track, untill I no longer need it or want to change it.


To summarise, if Sonar had everyting streamilned as it could, the whole process would look like this:

First, bounciong midi clips:
1. Select the midi clip.
2. Select 'Bounce to Track' *
3. Hit 'OK' to commence
4. Name the resultant audio clip.

Do the above for as many clips as needed.
* the destination track is locked to my chosen track so I don't need to choose it each time.

Now, we come to 'export':
1. Select all clips in the track.
2. Select EXPORT* and hit the Export button.

*Because I have previously set the export diolog window to have the two following options ticked, i do not need to do anything else but click export!:
Option 1: 'export all clips as separate files'
Option 2: 'use clip name as file name'



Now, for comparison, this is what has to be done in Sonar as it is now:

Bouncing midi clips:
1. Select the midi clip
2. Select 'Bounce to Track'.
3. Select both, the midi and audio track in order to bounce. Or, if using an instrument Track, click on its number.
4. Select destination track
5. Hit OK to commence.
6. Name the resultant audio clip.

Export:
1. Select the audio clip
2. Select EXPORT
3. Name the file
4. Hit the export button.

Perhaps, on the surface there isn't a big difference between what I wish was happening and what is actually happening. But there is a huge diffrence, especially if I work with lots of clips. It all about doing the job with the minimum of mouse clicks.

So that's that. I hope what I wrote makes sense, and that there are users who have found the same need for improvement, as it will be easier to request new improvemnets with more than one voice.
Thank you for reading.

Thank you for your first response. :)

Since the only thing contained in a MIDI track is MIDI data, how can it magically be all that's required when you want an audio recording of that data?  Before bouncing the synth track's associated audio track looks empty since nothing has been recorded to a file yet, but it's the audio conduit for the sound coming out of the synth.  The two kinds of tracks are required for a bounce, and that's logical enough, seems to me.

Let me clarify. I do not wish to get rid of the audio track, but for a means to set my midi track to always bounce through its audio track without me having to set it manually each time. What I want, is a way to have the routing selection to stay active no matter what I do in the track. A simple option in the track propertis would do it. Perhpas I need to clarify why: I often work on a huge number of clips in a session. So, I will be sitting there bouncing, and having to select the midi and audio track after each bounce. Why ? This should be set in the propereties, so that it saves me having to zoom across the sceen and keep selecting two tracks each time.

--The other thing that comes to mind from reading your detailed post is that it's very likely you have unusual, atypical needs for your projects.  Most of us are assembling projects with MIDI and audio which all need to be combined in one final master stereo track.  Since you're talking about exporting all these short clips - it sounds like you mean that they aren't parts of a whole, but are each units unto themselves?  Like perhaps you're working up a folder of many sound effect clips, and putting them together in one Sonar project--?  Something like that perhaps?  Otherwise - I draw a blank in understanding why you need each clip individually exported.

Yes, you are correct. These clips are little "units unto themsleves". These could be audio demos of presets I make or sample wav files. So, with creating sample material, I will have, say, ten notes in my midi track, for example, from C1 to C7. Each C note is bounced, with or without effects. I then name each and want to export with further processing. So, I would love to be able to export the final selection of clips residing in my track all in one go, but have them export as separate WAV files, and each exported file would automatically name itself with the associated clips name. I hope this clarifies what I do, and perhpas shows that the way Sonar is designed here makes the whole process needlessly laborious.

rbowser


  Since the only thing contained in a MIDI track is MIDI data, how can it magically be all that's required when you want an audio recording of that data?

See, it already knows which way to go, as the midi track is output to its synth, which is already sitting on an audio track.

Do an experiment. Insert a synth. create a midi clip. Click on the midi clip and watch the midi track number light up as well as the main folder light up ( in its left corner). However, the audio track does not light up. I need to do it manually. Why ? That is the issue. If I'm bouncing through this audio track only, there is no need to select another one. Just this one. So let's have an option to keep it selected all the time.

And the issue is, if I sit there having to do it an x amount of times, it soon becomes very tiring. As we all know, the less clicking we do the less chance of RSI ?

See it like this:
Do the same with an audio track and select a clip and then bounce it. See what happens. You don't get that message which tells you that you need to select an audiodtrack, rightly so, as we are already on a selected audio track. But the same should apply to my VSTi folder and the midi plus audio track contained there in.

However, I know that there is a DAW which will name the exported WAV file with its audio track clip name, automatically. I just can't remember which host it is.

But will it export multiple files?

I can honestly say that, as someone who frequent exports multiple files in Broadcast Wav or OMF format, I wish SONAR had an option to do so while preserving the audio clip's name...I'm not sure how difficult that would be to implement or if it's even possible but it would be nice...

sorry if this is covered above but:

You can "export" a bunch of clips in a track at once by just selecting them all and dragging them into a folder or wherever. A problem here is that each clip has to be "bounced to clip" first. The naming will also be all screwed up. And, I don't really know if this is the same as "export". just my 2cents.

timidi


sorry if this is covered above but:

You can "export" a bunch of clips in a track at once by just selecting them all and dragging them into a folder or wherever. A problem here is that each clip has to be "bounced to clip" first. The naming will also be all screwed up. And, I don't really know if this is the same as "export". just my 2cents.

Thank you for reminding me about this method. I forgot about it. :-)
However, I remember reading somewhere that doing that is not a good option, i really can't recall why. But ever since I read that, I stayed away from doing it. Perhpas I'm mistaken...was it Craig Anderton in Sound On Sound when talking about backing up ? I will need to dig out that SOS issue.

Also, as you said, this method will add some extra info to the name of each file. I just tried it, all my files had the project name and a specific Sonar track id number added to the file name. So now, I have eleven files that I need to edit.

I remember reading somewhere that doing that is not a good option

I'd be curious to know.

I agree, the way Sonar handle naming of exports is a PIA...rigid defaults and all that.

Regarding the midi-track-not-also-selecting-the-audio-track thing...... having that happen automatically assumes too much. Waht happens if someone wants to select just the midi track? then they need to take an extra step and unselect the audio?

As you mentioned, selecting a folder automatically selects the tracks in it, is in effect doing what you want in one click. Of course, it is dependant on if you have acutally structured your folders with 1midi/1audio in each. Now, nested folders would be a big help in allowing a more flexible folder structure and still keep that same selection ability.

Keebo


I don't currently have the need for what you are asking but I do see where it would definitely improve yours and others' workflow.  If you are the same Himalaya who designs sounds for use with Alchemy, than I am all for it as your bank of pads are very well done.

I wish you luck with your requests.

Thank you for the compliment re Alchemy. :-)

I'm currently working on a new set of pads for Alchemy. And this post is the result of it. I'm preparing new WAV matrial and what I am describing here really does slow me down, or rather makes the process of creating WAV files cumbersome.